Play Time Or Fighting?

[Alfieluca]

Hi, I have a cat Alfie who is nearly 2 years old and a new kitten Luca who is just 8 weeks. The 2 seem to have done really well and within 3 days no hissing or growling from either cat, only thing is sometimes Alfie seems a little fed up of the younger cat but he has plenty places to go to chill when this is the case. My concern is there fighting or play fighting. Alfie has always played quite rough and seemed to love a good wrestle with your hand and chasing your finger and things. The new kitten and Alfie seem to be playing to me and Alfie is quite gentle most of the time just bops on the head but generally they come nose to nose now and are happy with each other’s presence the problem is when Alfie properly gets involved he jumps on the kitten rolling him over giving him tummy bites but I’ve watched very closely and Alfie is using no claws at all. The kitten is very vocal when this happens this is my concern. He can make crying noises like a fighting cat and will eventually hiss to get Alfie off him. After Alfie kind of lies on the floor on his side then will engage again when the kitten runs past like a dafty. The kitten doesn’t seem scared at all, after these wee wrestles the kitten won’t go and hide he will more often than not go back for more even though he gets another wrestle that makes him squeal and hiss. I’m a bit confused I’m kind of leaving them to it because I’m fairly confident Alfie is just playing obviously he’s a lot bigger and I’m not sure if my kittens just a soar looser.
Another thing to mention would be Alfie makes no noise at all when wrestling it’s just the kitten and when they are not together (when in a playful mood) the look for each other. Alfie’ also makes kind of we chirping noises when he is hiding and wanting the kitten to engage in play. They sound like happy noises to me but again not sure.

Should I leave them to it if spereate when the kitten squawks?
Thanks for any help.
Amy

 

[mazie]

I personally have no experience with your situation, but I would not leave them unsupervised when they are in this "play?" mode when your little one is so small. The red flag I saw here is the "chirping" noises the older cat gets when stalking the smaller kitten. I have read on previous posts from other members, that particular noise he makes is the noise cats make when stalking prey. Your best bet is to wait for the experts to chime in, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

On a lighter note, Welcome to the Cat Site. So glad to have you!! I think you already know you have found the perfect platform to voice any problems/concerns regarding your cats!! Also, please post pictures of your fur babies, we love pictures around here.

 

[Alfieluca]

Thanks for your reply, maybe chirping wasn’t the right word as I think I know that noise you mean almost like chattering uncontrollably? He does that with the laser pen but when playing with kitten he makes kind of a very short put/cry is this the noise you mean or the laser pen noise? Confusing I know haha I have a video of exactly what they are doing but it won’t let me upload and actually watching the video back it ends with Alfie trying to clean his bum which I can tell he’s desperate to do. I totally agree I wouldn’t feel confident leaving them yet. I just don’t want to stop them if this is Alfie way of kind of asserting himself as I’m 100% confident the kitten isn’t getting hurt as he is fully white and I can easily check his body.

Picture of them both trying to stay awake

It’s a great site! I could spend hours looking I’m glad I found it will be so helpful!

 

[mazie]

They both look adorable! Like I said, I have no experience with what you are describing, it's is just similar threads I have read in the past. No worries, they sound like they are getting to know one another just fine. Someone with experience in interpreting cat sounds will surely come across your thread any time now.

 

[tinydestroyer]

I know the "play chirp" you're talking about. My cats do it to engage each other for play, and it sounds different than the "prey chattering" they make when they see a bird out the window and can't get it or something. Even if one cat is on one side of a door and the other is situated in the other room, the first cat will chirp by the door, and theyll play by patting paws underneath the door.

My older male cat is a bit bigger, but not the size difference that your cats have. When they play too roughly, and the smaller girl hisses and walks away (for only a second, then she's back at it) the male cat stops play attacking rather than pressing his advantage and actually hurting her. I think so long as your older cat backs off once a squeal or noise is heard, he's still playing with the kitten. Because he might not know until the kitten tells him what hurts vs what doesn't, I'd definitely still keep an eye on them playing until they're more evenly matched, though!

 

[catlover73]

I think this is play but it should be supervised. My older male cat used to pin my young kitten down when she was a brat during play time. She was under-socialized and needed to learn manners. My Starbuck used to scream like she was being murdered at first. I was also dealing with a huge size difference. A 7 year old male with a much smaller 6 week old little kitten. There was no hissing or growling between my cats either. There would be changes in the type of noises and body posture with both cats if they were fighting. I would supervise their play time a little more. You could also try keeping an interactive toy on a wand to try re-direct the play a little if you are worried about things being to rough. In my issue the kitten was being too rough and needed to learn manners. It seems like they are still learning how to communicate play boundaries here.

 

[nahui]

I wouldn't worry about it, although it is always a good idea to supervise them while they play. My three year old , 13 lbs cat, used to be very rough (at least that's what it looked like to me!) with my eight week old kitten. He would roll her over to her belly, pin her down and "chew" her. She would be very vocal, but there was never any blood or scratches on either of them. Also, as soon as my cat released her or she managed to get away, she would immediately go back and start playing again with my cat. I figured that if he was hurting her, she wouldn't keep playing with him.

Even now, she is almost six months old and still considerably smaller than my cat. They play together a lot and he still rolls her over, pins her down and chews her. She still complains, yet continues to play with him! I guess that is just how they play.

Also, about a year ago I fostered a cat and her litter and she used to play with her kittens in very much the same seemingly rough way, but still never hurt any one of them.

 

[sabian]

I wouldn't worry to much about it. Sounds like just playing to me. You may want to call Alfie out when he gets ruff and just tell him to play nice or a firm "Easy" should do it. I wouldn't leave them unsupervised to be on the safe side though. In a year or so Alfie may be the one hissing and crying!

 

[rascalshadownj2]

View attachment 203491 Thanks for your reply, maybe chirping wasn’t the right word as I think I know that noise you mean almost like chattering uncontrollably? He does that with the laser pen but when playing with kitten he makes kind of a very short put/cry is this the noise you mean or the laser pen noise? Confusing I know haha I have a video of exactly what they are doing but it won’t let me upload and actually watching the video back it ends with Alfie trying to clean his bum which I can tell he’s desperate to do. I totally agree I wouldn’t feel confident leaving them yet. I just don’t want to stop them if this is Alfie way of kind of asserting himself as I’m 100% confident the kitten isn’t getting hurt as he is fully white and I can easily check his body.

Picture of them both trying to stay awake

It’s a great site! I could spend hours looking I’m glad I found it will be so helpful!

What sweet cats! Glad to have you here! Thanks for posting that picture of your furbabies. That white kitten is so cute!

 

[rascalshadownj2]

Glad I saw this thread. My two cats Rascal and Shadow are the same age. I think they are five or six. They were litter mates when we got them. I've been having similar issues with them. When they were younger, they got along pretty well. but now that they are older, it seems that they have been getting into more "squabbles" lately. They rip and run through the house, but sometimes I hear them actually getting into fights, with some hissing and growling. So I go and break it up. Mostly they chase each other, but sometimes Rascal will make Shadow move from a spot he wants, by swatting at Shadow, and hissing at him. I'm sure it's a territory thing, but I don't like them getting violent. I tell them that they sound like alley cats fighting. lol Of course that doesn't do any good. They stop fighting and go lay down, either on one of their pillows, or one of their perches. They usually get along, but it's those sudden fights that make me nervous. Don't want them getting hurt, and having to take them to the vet for injuries. Do you think they would really cause each other any serious injuries? Comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Cats do play to establish "pecking order" as well as to bond. I would always supervise an adult with a young kitten until they are more evenly matched size-wise, and ensure the kitten has a safe haven where the adult cat cannot go when you go out Alfieluca . It doesn't sound like there is any problem between Alfie and Luca -- it sounds like they are bonding very well and that Alfie is setting boundaries for Luca, which is natural and normal.
With Rascal and Shadow, they may be going through the machinations of establishing "pecking order" again. This can and frequently does happen more than once when cats live together. Have there been any changes in the household, rascalshadownj2 ? This can trigger a mixup in the routine and in the hierarchy. Again, it doesn't sound like there's anything to really worry about, but I would try to observe their interaction as much as possible and if you are worried, better safe than sorry -- you may want to separate them when you're gone, in rooms where each has all of his requirements and enrichments.

 

[doomsdave]

Aww, so sweet.

Little kittens are fragile, alas, I've found the hard way, though not from cat-on-cat playing.

Until your kitten gets to be big and strong enough to really effectively look out for herself, I'd recommend keeping her and Alfie separated. Just to be safe.

 

[SamanthaL:)]

Hi!
Welcome. I’m new too. I posted last month when I first got my new kitten and I was nervous about what the dynamic might be between her and my shy resident cat. Anyway, I was going to start this thread myself but since you started it, I thought I might just jump on yours. Maybe any replys would be useful too you too? My question is, are my cats playing or fighting in the video below?

 

[thelaughingcat]

I'm at work so I can't watch the video (worse luck!) but my kittens went through exactly this scenario. We got Ash and his sister when they were around six weeks old (the breeder we got them from told us they were nine weeks old - she's now reported). His sister passed away after a couple of weeks which was heartbreaking, especially watching Ash cry out and wander around looking for her, getting very clingy.

So after a few weeks we got another kitten so he'd have a playmate and for the first three or four weeks we genuinely thought we had made a huge mistake. Jinna was around ten days younger but was the runt of her litter and was tiny! We separated them and tried to introduce them to each other slowly but every time they were in a room together, Ash's boisterous nature would come out and he would do exactly the same as your Alfie, silently batting her around, jumping on her back and nipping her neck, rolling her onto her back and biting her stomach until she yowled and hissed. We were so worried that they were never going to get on or that they would end up hurting each other.

Then we noticed that when he didn't pounce her, she would give him a swift smack as he went past, or lash her tail when she wasn't being threatened - totally teasing him!

Finally, we left them in the living room overnight to sort it out amongst themselves....and by the time we came down the next morning, they were curled up together.

They still playfight and she'll still hiss when she's had enough (and he's still half again as heavy as her!) but they'll also groom each other and sleep together and genuinely seem to adore each other!

So yeah, worked out for me - I really hope yours go the same way!

 

[vince]

The cats are just playing. You need to watch the body language. Their ears are, for the most part, not folded back against their heads and their hair isn't standing up, nor are their tails all fuzzed up. Notice that their claws are retracted all the time. They are relatively quiet and their play fight is episodic with give-and-take between them. If they were really fighting, it would be full or howling and growling with fur flying. Cat play fights often look like a Jiu-Jitsu match.

It can get pretty rough-looking, with lots of rolling into stuff and occasional growls and hisses, but still no fur and howling. Occasionally, my two might need to break it up, but not often.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Hi!
Welcome. I’m new too. I posted last month when I first got my new kitten and I was nervous about what the dynamic might be between her and my shy resident cat. Anyway, I was going to start this thread myself but since you started it, I thought I might just jump on yours. Maybe any replys would be useful too you too? My question is, are my cats playing or fighting in the video below?

Welcome to TCS! The kitten is definitely playing and your resident adult cat isn't really happy about it; she is putting the kitten in her place in the beginning of the video, and at the end, rather than get rough, she leaves, which is signalling to the kitten that she has had enough. From what I'm seeing, this is going to be a good relationship!

 

[mservant]

All sounds and looks good to me, and lots of sensible advice from others.

I have recently spent a lot of time watching a friend's two cats getting to know each other and after a few anxious moments initially it has all been good (and extremely funny). The situation here has been one very large adult neuter male Ragdoll and a small, four month old male (initially pre-) neuter Ragdoll kitten so a huge difference in size and weight for several weeks. It is pretty worrying when you see a large cat going in for belly, throat and neck bites and pouncing at such a tiny oponent! What was amazing was how the older cat totally adjusted his bite pressure and avoided landing with all his weight on the little kitten, and his scary claws were never evident when they were tusseling. The kitten gave off plenty little squeaks so on-lookers might take pity on him but it was pretty obvious it was all show so we held off. The kitten is now almost half the size of his chum and able to hold his own a little too well so they don't need supervision all the time, but I am with everyone else, that interactions do need to be observed until their size is better matched and you are sure they are understanding each other.

White and grey plus white is a lovely combo' and I bet they look super cute when they're playing.

 

[rascalshadownj2]

"With Rascal and Shadow, they may be going through the machinations of establishing "pecking order" again. This can and frequently does happen more than once when cats live together. Have there been any changes in the household, rascalshadownj2 ? This can trigger a mixup in the routine and in the hierarchy. Again, it doesn't sound like there's anything to really worry about, but I would try to observe their interaction as much as possible and if you are worried, better safe than sorry -- you may want to separate them when you're gone, in rooms where each has all of his requirements and enrichments."

Hi again tarasgirl106. Finally getting around to your reply. Thanks for the advice. As for them being together, they seem to get along OK when we leave them together in their bedroom. Whenever we get home from town, they are usually sleeping, and wake up when they hear me come upstairs. I never seen any signs of where they have fought. As for changes, the only changes I made was where I feed them. I used to feed them in our dining room, but we started getting all these ants where they were eating. So I started feeding them upstairs in their bedroom. It was more quiet and they seem to like it better. So that wasn't much of a big change. It didn't seem to stress them out. But that's the only change I have made. I try to keep their routine as regular as possible. Of course Christmas will be coming, so we will have to move some of their cat furniture around to make room for our Christmas tree. We did that last year, and they didn't seem to mind much. That was good. They didn't even bother the tree. They did go behind it, but I made sure they didn't try to climb the tree, or chew on any cords, etc. They still had their cat things available, so that distracted them from the tree. Maybe the next time they get into a spat, I'll do like SamanthaL and do a video of them so you can see it. Maybe that would work.

Thanks again for your reply.

Hugs,
Nancy

 

[rascalshadownj2]

Hi SamanthaL.

Welcome to The Cat Site. Glad to have you here! Thanks for posting that video of your cats. You have some really pretty cats. I too think it looks like they are playing, but sometimes it's hard to tell. It could be that my cats are playing too, but sometimes they get pretty rough! So that's when I get worried. But hopefully they won't hurt each other. I'll just keep an eye on them and watch what they do. Again, glad to have you here.

 

[tarasgirl06]

"With Rascal and Shadow, they may be going through the machinations of establishing "pecking order" again. This can and frequently does happen more than once when cats live together. Have there been any changes in the household, rascalshadownj2 ? This can trigger a mixup in the routine and in the hierarchy. Again, it doesn't sound like there's anything to really worry about, but I would try to observe their interaction as much as possible and if you are worried, better safe than sorry -- you may want to separate them when you're gone, in rooms where each has all of his requirements and enrichments."

Hi again tarasgirl106. Finally getting around to your reply. Thanks for the advice. As for them being together, they seem to get along OK when we leave them together in their bedroom. Whenever we get home from town, they are usually sleeping, and wake up when they hear me come upstairs. I never seen any signs of where they have fought. As for changes, the only changes I made was where I feed them. I used to feed them in our dining room, but we started getting all these ants where they were eating. So I started feeding them upstairs in their bedroom. It was more quiet and they seem to like it better. So that wasn't much of a big change. It didn't seem to stress them out. But that's the only change I have made. I try to keep their routine as regular as possible. Of course Christmas will be coming, so we will have to move some of their cat furniture around to make room for our Christmas tree. We did that last year, and they didn't seem to mind much. That was good. They didn't even bother the tree. They did go behind it, but I made sure they didn't try to climb the tree, or chew on any cords, etc. They still had their cat things available, so that distracted them from the tree. Maybe the next time they get into a spat, I'll do like SamanthaL and do a video of them so you can see it. Maybe that would work.

Thanks again for your reply.

Hugs,
Nancy

Of course I'm sure we would all love to see your cats! but it sounds like they are just "normal cats" in how they behave. Cats are kind of like people, I think -- we all have our moods, and sometimes we act on them, but mostly we try not to. Sounds like they are getting along quite well, actually. Experts do say that cats love pattern (routine) and that they don't like change (even in things like where furniture is placed), but I don't know if that is so strictly true. As for ants, you might want to try putting their food bowls in shallow dishes with water in them (like a moat) or there are also Fool-A-Bug bowls you can buy at some "pet" supply stores. These are plastic, though, and plastic isn't the first choice as it can cause/exacerbate feline acne.