Play/petting/redirected Aggression: How To Put An End To It?

[huxleysmom]

My newly adopted cat Sophie is young (1 or possibly younger I think) and loves getting pets and attention. However, she tends to bite hard when she plays or when she is petted and will randomly "attack" me. When she does, she doesn't break the skin, but it hurts and she also sometimes uses her back legs to kick my arm. What confuses me is that sometimes she can be petted for a long period of times and be fine, and other times, a couple of pets and she'll pounce on me. If I remove my arm, sometimes she stares at me intensely and will pounce at another part of my body like my face or leg. This behavior is very off putting to me as I never know what to expect (I have no intention of re-homing her), and I would like to get her to stop.
She plays a LOT so we use wands 3 or 4 times a day. She has many food puzzles, interactive games and things she can play with while I am away (apart from the toys she really likes as she has already eaten 2 entire toys!!), a couple of window perches though I have had to remove the bird feeder as it seemed to frustrate her more than anything and redirected her pent up aggression towards me. I have tried NO, hissing, removing myself gently from her (and on a couple of occasions maybe not as gently and pushed her away. I have never hit her though and never will, time out in another room.... I tried redirecting her aggression towards a large toy she can kick, but she seems very confused as to what I am doing, and ends up running from me, not knowing what to think of it. Sometimes I have the impression the removing and ignoring her for a while works and she is stopping herself from doing it, and then suddenly: BOOM! She does it again.
Has anyone ever had to deal with this? Does it get better as cats age? Can they be trained out of this bad habit or is it something I'm just going to have to deal with? I would like to at least limit the frequency of her "attacks".

 

[Rini]

I have no answers but Aslan does this too! I thought it was kitten nonsense but he is almost one.

I have scrapes and some pretty deep cuts from his very sharp nails when he bunny kicks me. He also attacked me last night when I was on the phone, he came from behind and pounced at the back of my skull.

He lets go and runs away when I scream but...ouch.

I will be watching this thread for answers....and my condolences.

 

[huxleysmom]

I have no answers but Aslan does this too! I thought it was kitten nonsense but he is almost one.

I have scrapes and some pretty deep cuts from his very sharp nails when he bunny kicks me. He also attacked me last night when I was on the phone, he came from behind and pounced at the back of my skull.

He lets go and runs away when I scream but...ouch.

I will be watching this thread for answers....and my condolences.

Sophie attacked my head as she was lying on the top of the chair last night. She didn't bite too hard or anything (as my head was too big for her mouth lol) but it was out of nowhere as she was just there and I was not petting her. The randomness of it is what frustrates me the most I think. It makes it unpredictable of course, but also makes it hard to know why she does it? Is it petting aggression? Play aggression? Redirected aggression? Do you deal with them in the same way? When is it considered a behavioral issue that needs professional help?
I am going to try to leash train her. She is very curious and I think she'll like the outdoors, but what if this creates more issues?
I am bringing her to the vet for vaccines on Thursday and the vet already knows that this was an issue so we'll talk about it some more. I am concerned about her breathing rate. It is always very fast (even when she sleeps) and the vet heard a grade 1 murmur once, so I want to make sure it's not something medical as well.

 

[ArtNJ]

Couple of things:

(1) keep looking for triggers. Some cats need to be petted in certain spots or they will be triggered. I cannot pet my older cat and watch tv at the same time, because sooner or later I'll pet too hard, or too low on her body, and she'll bite me. The belly & sometimes paws, hindquarters or tail is off limits for many cats. However, its quite common for cats to bite (in their minds) playfully so there may not be any trigger at all;

(2) try a loud enough to be somewhat startling "no!" before disengaging and ignoring for a bit;

(3) boredom probably has something to do with it, but at this point its a habit so I don't think you can cure it just by playing with the cat more or getting toys, etc. For sure think about how to address boredom, but the main thing is try the loud no and see how it goes.

(4) I don't think redirecting is the answer. That links the cat doing this with something good in their minds and may reinforce the behavior.

 

[Mama to the crew]

When i rescued my crew Talia had no cat skills i think she was isolated form other cats and never learned cat behavior. She was a biter and clawed you. Some of this behavior your discribing is kitten behavior or playful cat behaviour they have to learn. These are some steps we put in place that seems to work well if everyone follows it.
1. Learn to read your cat ask your self when dose she get aggressive? What are you doing at that time? Cats can get over stimulated. This is one of Talia problems she gets over stimulated her back will start to roll and if you keep petting her she will attack. We've learned she loves head neck chin scterchs and just melts but you foccus to much on her back its to much. No one else has that issue but they all like to be handled in their own way.

2. Your hands and feet are not toys just like with dogs. You can pet and love on them but hands are not toys.

3. Be consistent with your rules and punishments. Here we treat the cats how they treat each other.
1. No biting it means all attention stops and you get put down right off for a minute or 2. If you keep trying to get back up before time you get three warning before the person leaves. (Im explaining it in human terms but they will understand your action) repeat bites get you sent to your room for time out.
2. Clawing with the intention of hurting will get you slaped back (not hard enough to hurt but enough to get your attention) and sent to your room. A warning swap is allowed and our behavior stops and if it dosen't we won't chase you if you leave.

We also use the name warning system lol usually by the time last name is used they are looking and acting like what im not doing anything or the slink off to their room tough like yeah yeah im going. By the way their room has litter box food water and toys so its a real mean place to go. Lol usually its just a regroup spot.

4. Booping them on the head is an effective way to tell them to stop its something they do to each other. And again you not smacking or hiting them its a tap on the head.

It sounds like you cat might need more activity level. Try intorducing more wond time get some moving toys that she can chase. Two of my cats are runners and race around because they have high energy levels. Oh a laser light if she'll play would let her run further then a wond. Only one of mine loves the light a few of the others will play at time but don't really care about it. Thats the advice i have and im happy to answer any questions but this is what works for us Talia reraly bites any more and the times she does its because she hyped up.

 

[huxleysmom]

Couple of things:

(1) keep looking for triggers. Some cats need to be petted in certain spots or they will be triggered. I cannot pet my older cat and watch tv at the same time, because sooner or later I'll pet too hard, or too low on her body, and she'll bite me. The belly & sometimes paws, hindquarters or tail is off limits for many cats. However, its quite common for cats to bite (in their minds) playfully so there may not be any trigger at all;

(2) try a loud enough to be somewhat startling "no!" before disengaging and ignoring for a bit;

(3) boredom probably has something to do with it, but at this point its a habit so I don't think you can cure it just by playing with the cat more or getting toys, etc. For sure think about how to address boredom, but the main thing is try the loud no and see how it goes.

I do think boredom has a role in this. She is alone while I am at work all day and is still very young and playful. I have added everything I can think of to create a fun environment for her while I am away: Perches by 2 windows, cat tunnels, puzzles (food and toys), I hide treats around the house, put new boxes/ paper bags around the apt for her to explore, cat grass for her to chew on (she is a big chewer!), toys that are safe for her to play with alone like little balls she can bat around, and when I am home, I open the windows for her to have some access to the outdoors, which is her favorite! I have window nets, but don't feel it is safe when I am not here. We play with wands at least 3-4 times a day for a good 20 minutes each time during which I give her a small treat every time she "kills" her pray. This seems to work better as opposed to waiting till play is over as she would not release the toy if I tried to remove it from her to start playing again and would growl at me pretty loudly. She runs and jumps around the house and is quite out of breath by the end of it. I am going to try and leash train her to add to her list of things to do.
She does not like other cats, and I can only have one where I live, so getting a friend for her is out of the question
What else could I try to enrich her environment?

 

[huxleysmom]

When i rescued my crew Talia had no cat skills i think she was isolated form other cats and never learned cat behavior. She was a biter and clawed you. Some of this behavior your discribing is kitten behavior or playful cat behaviour they have to learn. These are some steps we put in place that seems to work well if everyone follows it.
1. Learn to read your cat ask your self when dose she get aggressive? What are you doing at that time? Cats can get over stimulated. This is one of Talia problems she gets over stimulated her back will start to roll and if you keep petting her she will attack. We've learned she loves head neck chin scterchs and just melts but you foccus to much on her back its to much. No one else has that issue but they all like to be handled in their own way.

2. Your hands and feet are not toys just like with dogs. You can pet and love on them but hands are not toys.

3. Be consistent with your rules and punishments. Here we treat the cats how they treat each other.
1. No biting it means all attention stops and you get put down right off for a minute or 2. If you keep trying to get back up before time you get three warning before the person leaves. (Im explaining it in human terms but they will understand your action) repeat bites get you sent to your room for time out.
2. Clawing with the intention of hurting will get you slaped back (not hard enough to hurt but enough to get your attention) and sent to your room. A warning swap is allowed and our behavior stops and if it dosen't we won't chase you if you leave.

We also use the name warning system lol usually by the time last name is used they are looking and acting like what im not doing anything or the slink off to their room tough like yeah yeah im going. By the way their room has litter box food water and toys so its a real mean place to go. Lol usually its just a regroup spot.

4. Booping them on the head is an effective way to tell them to stop its something they do to each other. And again you not smacking or hiting them its a tap on the head.

It sounds like you cat might need more activity level. Try intorducing more wond time get some moving toys that she can chase. Two of my cats are runners and race around because they have high energy levels. Oh a laser light if she'll play would let her run further then a wond. Only one of mine loves the light a few of the others will play at time but don't really care about it. Thats the advice i have and im happy to answer any questions but this is what works for us Talia reraly bites any more and the times she does its because she hyped up.

What do you mean by booping? Is it like a little flick on their nose with a finger?

 

[Mama to the crew]

Hmm i wonder if its not bordem but over stimulation thats her problem. Sounds like you've got a lot going on for her to do while your gone. Maybe try to set up a limited amount of space in each room for her to explore but not be overwhelmed and swtich out stuff every so often so something is or looks new. Thats something we did here each room got different things to do yet it not over whelming because most of my group didn't even know what toys are. The three kittens do because they grew up with them but the others had to be taught

 

[Mama to the crew]

Something like that i usually give them a tap on the head ans say that naughty (we can't use bad because Talia flips out. It took her a long time to understand that it was ok to be naughty that she wouldn't be thrown out). I'm cerently more gentle about it then my one female Ally they displease her and she lets them have it. She actually a very loving cat but is a iron paw ruler of the house

 

[huxleysmom]

Hmm i wonder if its not bordem but over stimulation thats her problem. Sounds like you've got a lot going on for her to do while your gone. Maybe try to set up a limited amount of space in each room for her to explore but not be overwhelmed and swtich out stuff every so often so something is or looks new. Thats something we did here each room got different things to do yet it not over whelming because most of my group didn't even know what toys are. The three kittens do because they grew up with them but the others had to be taught

Haha. I should have mentioned that it's not happening in the same place, everyday all at once. The toys, a tunnel and the grass are there all the time. The rest I kind of rotate. I did remove the bird feeder that was outside for a while. She was clearly overstimulated by that and I've seen a big difference since then.

 

[Rini]

So has it been agreed the the spray bottle is a no no?

Aslan is starting to make me feel like I am in a domestic violence relationship. I love him and he has his sweet moments, but he will not stop play attacking me.

 

[Mama to the crew]

Then i would set firm boundary with her and be patient by slowly figureing out her trigers. Make sure she not being over stemualed when your petting her and don't start loving on her unless she calm so like if you done playing wait before trying to pet her. It just takes time and you said that taking yourself out of the picture when she gets to worked up is helping her learn control keep doing what works it just takes time and everyone has moments of weakness or forgetfulness

 

[huxleysmom]

So has it been agreed the the spray bottle is a no no?

Aslan is starting to make me feel like I am in a domestic violence relationship. I love him and he has his sweet moments, but he will not stop play attacking me.

I think it very much depends on the cat. My mom, who is disabled has a very active cat who ends up breaking everything in her house. My mom's only way to try and limit the damage is to use a spray bottle. Now Neige is a very confident and loving cat, and has never associated my mom as the source of the unpleasantness. However, if I had done that to Huxley, my poor sweet and gentle baby would have started to fear me and this would have taken a toll on our relationship. Some cats may react by being even more aggressive in an attempt to protect themselves. I am on the "err on the side of caution" side. If it's not working for you, then I would definitely stop

 

[huxleysmom]

Then i would set firm boundary with her and be patient by slowly figureing out her trigers. Make sure she not being over stemualed when your petting her and don't start loving on her unless she calm so like if you done playing wait before trying to pet her. It just takes time and you said that taking yourself out of the picture when she gets to worked up is helping her learn control keep doing what works it just takes time and everyone has moments of weakness or forgetfulness

The biggest thing is for me to train myself to not pet her when she is not in the right frame of mind I guess. I went from a velcro gentle cat with no teeth, to an excitable young ball of energy who definitely has teeth! I need to stop petting or going to her when she is not in the mood. It's hard! lol

 

[Mama to the crew]

Before a spray bottle try throwing a toy and time outs with him. Also make sure he not getting over stimulated by touch.

I stress it a lot because we honestly think Talia was thrown out because she wasn't what people expected. They wanted this beatiful sweet loving cat and she is all that but she not a 24/7 loving cat she very independent and is very very senitive over stimulation.

 

[ArtNJ]

Assuming you can't figure out triggers and are not interacting when the cat is riled up, its probably just a habit. Try the loud No! with disengaging and see what happens.

I wouldn't worry about adding more activities, you've put plenty of thought into it. You can have all the stuff in the world, but if your cat has decided biting you is a thing to do, you'll need to break the habit. So at this point I don't think it has much to do with boredom.

Edit: just read that your having to learn when not to pet her. Yep, young cats need to be ready to chill, which may not be that high a % of the time. If the cat is wandering around looking alert as opposed to laying down, good chance it is not ready. If you are not too sure, tap the couch and make a call noise and see if the cat will come to you. Only pet the cat on the couch, don't play. And if the cat plays rough, get up and move to a chair.

 

[huxleysmom]

Assuming you can't figure out triggers and are not interacting when the cat is riled up, its probably just a habit. Try the loud No! with disengaging and see what happens.

I wouldn't worry about adding more activities, you've put plenty of thought into it. You can have all the stuff in the world, but if your cat has decided biting you is a thing to do, you'll need to break the habit. So at this point I don't think it has much to do with boredom.

Edit: just read that your having to learn when not to pet her. Yep, young cats need to be ready to chill, which may not be that high a % of the time. If your not too sure the cat is ready, tap the couch and make a call noise and see if the cat will come to you. Only pet the cat on the couch, don't play. And if the cat plays rough, get up and move to a chair.

Thanks for all of your help! it's greatly appreciated!

 

[Rini]

I think it very much depends on the cat. My mom, who is disabled has a very active cat who ends up breaking everything in her house. My mom's only way to try and limit the damage is to use a spray bottle. Now Neige is a very confident and loving cat, and has never associated my mom as the source of the unpleasantness. However, if I had done that to Huxley, my poor sweet and gentle baby would have started to fear me and this would have taken a toll on our relationship. Some cats may react by being even more aggressive in an attempt to protect themselves. I am on the "err on the side of caution" side. If it's not working for you, then I would definitely stop

I may have to try. The time outs seem to have no effect. As soon as I let him out he starts up again. I really don't want him to fear me but I'm at at a loss.

 

[ArtNJ]

Rini - Spray bottles only work to defend a particular area, like the food prep counter, because you can leave the spray bottle there. If you have to go get the bottle, the chances the cat will make the link go way down. They don't work all that well to begin with, or for all cats, but above all, they have to be immediately handy to the location the problem behavior will occur. (I mean, if say the cat is on the curtain and you immediately run for the bottle and run back, then the running is the immediate stimulus and the cat may learn to link that with "bad". But then what do you need the bottle for? That is why I recommend an immediate and loud noise like No!) For something that happens everywhere like (potentially) play biting, a loud No! (or clap your hands loud, or hiss) is better. If it isn't working, try louder.

 

[Rini]

Thank you for this.

I will try the loud NO again.