Play Or Fight?

[lre17]

just wanted to check if this is playing or fighting (the orange one, Oscar is usually on the bottom but he sometimes jumps on his brother and starts it but mostly the black one, Felix starts it). They are 4, littermates, fixed and i adopted them as a bonded pair. I am just trying to check all my boxes here since Oscar is having some out of the litter box trouble and I want to make sure it isnt because they are fighting)



if it helps bellow are pics of them hanging out together

 

[Kieka]

Looks like play to me. I am not seeing any signs of overt aggression or fear from either of them. Felix may be the more aggressive of the two but he is letting Oscar walk away calmly. Even though he follows him in the "I didn't know you'd be over here too" way it isn't the chase and posturing you'd see in fighting.

Has Oscar seen a vet for his litter box problems? He'd be at the prime age for UTI and that commonly leads to litter box problems. I have also heard of things completely unrelated, like ear infections, causing litter box problems.

 

[duncanmac]

I listened without sound, but that was super calm - almost definitely playing.
Two hints to answer the playing or fighting question: 1) Does one or both of the cats come back for more after a quick break in the action? 2) Are you in the emergency room? If the answer to these questions are Yes and No, respectively, then they are playing.

Cat play is rough, even for kittens. As long as the "loser" cat has a chance to regroup and catch his breath and isn't constantly chased all over the house to the point where he can't poop or eat, it should be OK

 

[lre17]

Looks like play to me. I am not seeing any signs of overt aggression or fear from either of them. Felix may be the more aggressive of the two but he is letting Oscar walk away calmly. Even though he follows him in the "I didn't know you'd be over here too" way it isn't the chase and posturing you'd see in fighting.

Has Oscar seen a vet for his litter box problems? He'd be at the prime age for UTI and that commonly leads to litter box problems. I have also heard of things completely unrelated, like ear infections, causing litter box problems.

Indeed he has but he is getting checked again on Thursday. Back in Nov we had a bad time with him and the box (but it was my fault-I only had one and did not clean it enough-I was a new cat mom and had no idea what I was doing) but we fixed that with cleaning boxes more, more boxes, special food and feliway (every so often he would have a mistake and go in the sink but that was it) On Thursday I noticed him sniffing around the sink like he wanted to go to the bathroom but I turned the sink on to try to discourage it (might not have been the best on on my part). On Friday Oscar woke me up earlier than usual but I rolled over and went back to bed. After I fed them at around 6:30am in went back into my room and saw/felt that a spot on my comforter was damp and smelled like urine. I tried not to panic. I got rid of the comforter, changed the sheets and gave them a few treats on the bed to remind them that the bed is not a box. Later that day I deep cleaned to boxes (scrubbed them and all new litter) and saw that it was clearly time for them to be cleaned (it had only been 10 days since I last cleaned them but for some reason this time they seemed extra dirty this time). I hoped it was just his way of telling me the box was dirty and went about the rest of my weekend (didn't want to stress them out with a trip to the vet if it was nothing as it upsets them). Saturday and Sunday nothing happened. This morning we got up like normal at 6:30am and I scooped the box and saw he had gone a bit. Later at around 7am in got back into bed and he and Felix started to romp. Next thing I knew Oscar as on my bed pawing at my feet. I did not think much of it as I figured he was just playing (he sometimes digs and paws at things before he settles down but then I felt Felix doing it which is not normal. I sat up and felt/saw/smelled a damp spot sorta near when Friday's mistake was. I got out of bed, stripped the sheets, replaced the feliway, gave them a snack on the bed and we all walked out into the living room. Once there I saw Oscar willingly hop in his box and go to the bathroom a pretty good amount. I am not sure what to do here or what this means. Could it be a medical thing as he went 3 times in less them 3 hours? Could it be I did not clean the bed well enough the first time and he could still smell pee? (I got rid of the comforter and changed the sheets but I did leave the blanket so maybe some of the odor lingered...)
Please help-I am at a loss as to what to do

 

[Notinks]

I was actually just going to post my own video when I saw this. My video was similar, so I let the aggressor out. Didn't turn the camera back on, but it got too aggressive in my mind. The aggressor's ears didn't lay down, but the victim's did. The victim was also high on catnip at the time, so rolling around on his back. Probably not the best time to try to integrate.

 

[Kieka]

N Notinks it isn't always as easy to tell as simple body posture and sounds. My girl is loud and gets very into play so she can seem more aggressive then she is.

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It's taken me a while to know when she's playing and when she is legitimately upset, and she is sometimes. A lot of it is knowing your cats and knowing their normal. In the OPs case it is very much typical play.

L lre17 given the amount of time I would definitely do a vet check. Peeing small amount multiple times or even mulitple times in a short period of time can all indicate a medical issue. It is always best to start at ruling out the medical before the behavioral, IMO.

 

[Notinks]

I would think the cat wouldn't stay on its back if it felt attacked either. I guess it could be playing, but it really doesn't look like my resident cat is liking it at all, so I stop it. Sorry if I hijacked your thread, OP. Just thought maybe it was ok since it is the same topic!

 

[lre17]

N Notinks it isn't always as easy to tell as simple body posture and sounds. My girl is loud and gets very into play so she can seem more aggressive then she is.

View media item 420658
It's taken me a while to know when she's playing and when she is legitimately upset, and she is sometimes. A lot of it is knowing your cats and knowing their normal. In the OPs case it is very much typical play.

L lre17 given the amount of time I would definitely do a vet check. Peeing small amount multiple times or even mulitple times in a short period of time can all indicate a medical issue. It is always best to start at ruling out the medical before the behavioral, IMO.

vet is coming on thursday to check him out

 

[Kieka]

vet is coming on thursday to check him out

Glad to hear it and a little jealous about having a vet who does house visits. If you can get some Nature's Miracle or another enzyme cleaner I would use it to spray down anything that gets peed on in the mean time. It will get rid of any smells you can't smell but he cans.

 

[lre17]

He has been using his box since this AM thank god so maybe I just needed to clean my bedding with natures miracle and get rid of the smell maybe he just got confused

 

[Caspers Human]

It's neither playing nor fighting.

Cats establish relationships with one another through dominance.
But cat's don't dominate the way dogs do. Cat dominance is situational.

One cat might dominate in one situation but the other might dominate in another.

Let's take, for instance, two cats who like to perch on the same windowsill.
The windowsill doesn't belong to one cat or the other. They basically "time share" it.

The window might "belong" to one cat in the morning but might belong to the other in the afternoon. The two cats will "negotiate" which one gets to sit by the window at a given time or situation.

If the "underdog" cat is sitting in the window but the other cat is dominant, he will chase the first cat away. If the dominant cat is in the window when the "underdog" tries to sit there, they will tussle until one or the other takes over.

This is not "fighting," per se. Neither is it "playing." It's just the way cats negotiate.

Cats can't talk and they don't have hands. They can only use their mouths and claws. They will wrestle and chase each other as if to say, "It's not your turn yet!"

It's just "Cat Politics"... Totally normal.

 

[lre17]

I listened without sound, but that was super calm - almost definitely playing.
Two hints to answer the playing or fighting question: 1) Does one or both of the cats come back for more after a quick break in the action? 2) Are you in the emergency room? If the answer to these questions are Yes and No, respectively, then they are playing.

Cat play is rough, even for kittens. As long as the "loser" cat has a chance to regroup and catch his breath and isn't constantly chased all over the house to the point where he can't poop or eat, it should be OK

they usually dont make any noise-maybe a meow here or there but nothing big (and i know for a fact the orange one, Oscar, can be pushed to hiss and swat as he hissed and swatted at a friend of mine who spooked him when she picked him up). They are declawed (I did not do it-they came that way) so I'm never sure if it is that they are not hurting each other because they can't or because it is play

 

[aliceneko]

Reminds me of a toned-down version of Toffee and Fudge's own fights, so I'd definitely say that they're playing. Sometimes, Fudge hisses at Toffee or growls at him when Toffee wants to play but Fudge isn't in the mood, so that could be a signal that Oscar is making to your other cat. It doesn't look like anything you should be worried about - whilst they do look like they might hurt each other (and if Toffee and Fudge get to that stage in fights I normally speak to them loudly and firmly or distract them with toys to break them up), no injuries will normally be made in play fights, from what I've experienced.

 

[lre17]

Reminds me of a toned-down version of Toffee and Fudge's own fights, so I'd definitely say that they're playing. Sometimes, Fudge hisses at Toffee or growls at him when Toffee wants to play but Fudge isn't in the mood, so that could be a signal that Oscar is making to your other cat. It doesn't look like anything you should be worried about - whilst they do look like they might hurt each other (and if Toffee and Fudge get to that stage in fights I normally speak to them loudly and firmly or distract them with toys to break them up), no injuries will normally be made in play fights, from what I've experienced.

They are declawed (I did not do it they came that way) so im never sure if they are not hurting each other because they are playing or because they can

 

[lre17]

Glad to hear it and a little jealous about having a vet who does house visits. If you can get some Nature's Miracle or another enzyme cleaner I would use it to spray down anything that gets peed on in the mean time. It will get rid of any smells you can't smell but he cans.

So vet gave Oscar a clean bill of health so I am thinking he might have just been upset about the boxes being not up to his standards and the sink being on and the second time was because the bed still had a bit of the smell on since I had not used natures miracle-what do you guys think?
in the meantime he has gone back in my food and had some snacks on my bed then went to the bathroom in his litter box so maybe it is going to be ok?