Phosphorus on Raw Diet

[raintyger]

A raw diet will naturally increase the amount of phosphorus taken in. Is this something to be concerned about? I know that with bladder stones they try and restrict the amounts of magnesium and phosphorus in the food. I've also heard that some say watching the magnesium levels isn't necessary. What about phosphorus, though? I know they also try to limit phosphorus in cases of kidney failure.

For instance, Nature's Variety duck has a very high level of phosphorus. Should I limit this due to the high phosphorus levels? My kitty took the duck formulation better than the chicken.

 

[ldg]

Does your kitty have an issue with FLUTD or CKD/CRF?

FYI, meat and bones are the primary source of phosphorus in a raw diet. I make homemade food - a form of prey model raw, only I alternate between eggshell powder as a source of calcium and freeze dried bone as a source (and they also get ground whole animal as a meal 4x a week, chicken wings on occasion, and a quarter of a whole quail (bone-in) as a meal once a week).

mschauer analyzed the diet using only eggshell powder as the source of calcium, and it lowered the phosphorus from 1.2% on a dry matter basis the way I feed my cats, to 0.8% on a dry matter basis. For FLUTD and CRF kitties, the target is less than 1% phosphorus on a dry matter basis.

So if you want to feed raw but need to limit phosphorus, it's best to make your own and substitute eggshell for bone as the source of calcium.

 

[raintyger]

Poppy's had a struvite stone but no kidney disease.

So you can use the eggshell as a permanent substitute? I'm a little confused about using bone meal and eggshells for the calcium. On the catnutrition.org website it says not to use bone meal on a permanent basis, you have to switch to ground bones from a grinder sometime. Yet it seems (at least to me) lots of people on the forum are using bone meal.
 

 

[ldg]

Yep, you'll find conflicting information, and all I can suggest is that you do your research and make your own decision about what you're comfortable with.

I understand the reasoning behind feeding bone. But, for instance, Carolina has a kitty that is completely intolerant of bone in any form. So if she wants her kitty to eat raw, she has no choice but to feed her eggshell powder as a source of calcium. Eggshells have other trace minerals, and are lower in magnesium than bone. They also have almost no phosphorus compared to bone. So while the profile is completely different, I personally feel comfortable using a mix of eggshell powder, freeze dried bone (not bone meal), and feeding a few meals of ground food with bone each week. And I give them chicken wings as a treat here and there, and I feed whole quail (bone-in) once a week. (Well, they each eat about 1/4 of it, but you get the point).

I think the main point of the importance of bone is "natural" sources of nutrition, and all the components working synergistically together. And bone is more than bone - it's joints, with chrondroitin and glucosamine.... of course, I provide those by feeding gizzards and chicken feet. :dk:

But if I had a kitty intolerant to bone, I wouldn't hesitate to feed only eggshell powder.

In fact, for a FLUTD kitty that was that sensitive to mineral content, I'd feel a lot better about feeding a raw diet using eggshell powder as the source of calcium rather than, say, a prescription diet! I think an "imperfect" raw diet that is still nutritionally balanced is far superior to any commercial diet. But that's me.

 

[otto]

In fact, for a FLUTD kitty that was that sensitive to mineral content, I'd feel a lot better about feeding a raw diet using eggshell powder as the source of calcium rather than, say, a prescription diet! I think an "imperfect" raw diet that is still nutritionally balanced is far superior to any commercial diet. But that's me.

I have a FLUTD kitty, and use only eggshell calcium for her. The other two do get some bone in meals, and some meals with the eggshell calcium. But up until now, Mazy gets no bone in meals.

PS In an effort to add one more protein source to Mazy's diet, I am trying her on Stella&Chewy's duck and goose (complete meal, re-hydrated) but it's going to be no more than two meals a week, while I try to find a local source for fresh duck. I am very nervous about the bone for her though.