Is their a point to try phosphate Blockers if my CKD cat's phosphate levels are normal? (Bun, creatinine, etc are elevated)
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
Phosphate Blockers?
- Thread starter syzygycat
- Start Date
The phosphorus range covers a wide swath, and CKD cats can fall into range and still be too high for them. Do you know what your cat's phosphorus number is? Can you tell us the creatinine and BUN numbers too?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
creat:2.2
BUN:39
SDMA: 17.7
Phosphate: 5.3
Sodium: 179
I'm trying the tricks to get extra calories in her without making things worse. If phosphates aren't the main issue, extra fat or extra protein calories might be much worse than letting her eat normal cat food idk.
There are other factors that can play a role besides what I asked for, but just looking at the simple guidelines, creatinine of 2.2 would put your cat in Stage 2 CKD (anywhere between 1.6 and 2.8), and IRIS states phosphorus goal values for that range should be no more than 4.6, so your cat's phosphorus level is a bit high. Keeping phosphorus levels under control can help slow the progression of the CKD and make your cat feel better.
You can look at commercial foods that are lower in phosphorus to see if you can bring that number down, or you can consider adding a phosphorus binder.
I wouldn't worry about fat either way at this point, and protein doesn't need to be on the lower end at this point either. Most commercial low phosphorus foods are relatively within range for both, for the most part.
You need to start educating yourself on CKD and I know of no better place that this one - I'll start with this particular section, just to get you started.
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease- Canned Food Data USA (felinecrf.org)
You can look at commercial foods that are lower in phosphorus to see if you can bring that number down, or you can consider adding a phosphorus binder.
I wouldn't worry about fat either way at this point, and protein doesn't need to be on the lower end at this point either. Most commercial low phosphorus foods are relatively within range for both, for the most part.
You need to start educating yourself on CKD and I know of no better place that this one - I'll start with this particular section, just to get you started.
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease- Canned Food Data USA (felinecrf.org)
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
My CKD cat is losing too much weight.
Since phosphates are just one factor of kidney diseas, what I really want to know is if how much worse non-RX food with binder vs RX (food for a couple of meals a day).
Senior formula cat foods have a little less Carnitine, Omega 3. A little more sodium and phosphates.
I wouldn't mess with Carnitine without a vets say so. But 3 drops of fish oil for cats would make up the difference Omega 3.
I don't recall if I mentioned this option to you, but can you handfeed? Not with a syringe, but with a Popsicle stick and pate style foods.
Have you looked at Weruva? Including their WX line?
My cat never took to any of the RX foods, so she eats commercial, and I give her a phosphorus binder with it because many of the lower phosphorus foods are not ones she likes. I buy her what she will eat, and that may be senior food or not. I get what I can find in my area, as there is no way I can buy cases of food online since she changes her mind frequently about what she will eat. I am more worried about keeping her weight up than I am about anything else. The best food for a cat is what they will eat. There is nothing wrong with giving your cat some Omega 3 via fish oil if she will eat it in her food.
Keep in mind a high phosphorus level can attribute to a lack of appetite in cats because they just don't feel as good.
The link I gave you reflects commercial foods with lower phosphorus counts as there are many cats who don't like the RX foods. Weruva WX, as mentioned above is a bit newer food that is likely not on the list I shared, but is non-RX and is specifically formulated with less minerals, including phosphorus. I don't know if it contains Omega-3, as my cat won't eat it, but you can check the ingredients to find out.
My cat requires food to constantly be put in front of her to eat. I can't just set a dish down and expect her to eat on her own.
Keep in mind a high phosphorus level can attribute to a lack of appetite in cats because they just don't feel as good.
The link I gave you reflects commercial foods with lower phosphorus counts as there are many cats who don't like the RX foods. Weruva WX, as mentioned above is a bit newer food that is likely not on the list I shared, but is non-RX and is specifically formulated with less minerals, including phosphorus. I don't know if it contains Omega-3, as my cat won't eat it, but you can check the ingredients to find out.
My cat requires food to constantly be put in front of her to eat. I can't just set a dish down and expect her to eat on her own.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
Yes to both. She's not a fan of hand feeding, WX fishy varieties are in the rotation and about as popular as any other lower phosphate Weruva food one meal every 2-3 weeks. (Simmer Down Stew is the only Weruva food she'll eat weekly but leaves the larger solid chunks behind, won't touch it if it's stirred/mushed)
I do not know enough about phosphorus binders. My cat currently has high normal phosphorus and kidney levels. Upon retesting if her levels are out of target range I think I will ask her vet if these products are something that would benefit her. I am hoping in 3 months her levels have decreased.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10
That's how it started with my cat. High end of normal. Thought no more fancy feast or dry food and adding a water fountain would be enoughm Then stage 2kidney disease 6months later with a diet change.
Target ranges for phosphorus is somewhat dependent on the Stage of CKD. And, the entire range is misleading because the upper portion of the range is generally too high for a cat with kidney disease. Without either giving your cat low phosphorus foods or using a phos binder, I doubt the phosphorus level will decrease.
You could also benefit from the web site I mentioned above. And, I'll provide a link directly to the section that discusses phosphorus and the importance of reducing the level in CKD cats.
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - The Importance of Phosphorus Control (felinecrf.org)
I have never fed dry and her food is not high in phosphorus or other ingredients that would push her toward hyperthyroidism.I have had other cat with the disease and before a knew it he lost a lot of weight. So I'm keeping an eye on all fronts and she will go back to the vets before her 3 month retest if I notice anything I do not like or significant changed. The only thing I gave her was some freeze dried chicken on top of her wet food before I took her to the vet to disguise med she needs to go to the vet. That could be high in phosphorus.It could also be genetic. Sorry about your kitty. My very first cat as a kid had kidney disease and that was because of the food. I have no trust in the pet food industry.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #13
Reading through Tanya's site was the 1st thing I did. It's finding a balance between controlling kidney disease and starvation that's im struggling with.
We get her on Mirtazapine as an appetite stimulant. Her weight loss is progressing slower but she's still losing weight.
11.6lbs jan 2022 when only her sodium was a and BUN was a tiny bit too high high.
9.6lbs after cutting dry foods and high phosphate foods .
8.7lbs being on low phosphate foods for 5mos, 8.5lbs on low phosphate foods and an appetite stimulant for 2 months.
Her phosphate #'s are under control for the most part (4.8 last check) it's the BUN, SDMA, sodium that keep going up. Adding phosphate Blockers to high phosphate foods have a good chance of getting her to eat more, but I think would be too risky considering all the other variables.
35% weight loss in about 2years for a cat that wasn't overweight to begin with is worrisome.
Her next blood test is supposed to be soon, on hold for a few weeks til more urgent stuff is sorted out
I was actually responding to the other poster on your thread. But, if your cat is losing weight because she is not eating enough then, IMO, foods with a higher phosphorus level combined with a phosphorus binder is the better way to go. I was able to keep Feeby's weight stable, even having her gain a bit, with standard cat foods and the phos binder.
BUN can be impacted by many things, not just the kidneys. Stress and dehydration are two common ones. SDMA is usually only considered a valuable number in helping to determine if a cat is inclined to acquire CKD. And, just so you know, my Stage 3 cat has an SDMA reading of 13 - so you can see that, at least for me, I don't give the number a lot of credence, despite IRIS using it in reference to CKD stages. I am not as familiar with a high sodium level because Feeby has never had it - did you read about it on Tanya's web site to see if there are corrective actions that can be taken aside from a low sodium food?
I presume her T-4 (thyroid) level is OK?
BUN can be impacted by many things, not just the kidneys. Stress and dehydration are two common ones. SDMA is usually only considered a valuable number in helping to determine if a cat is inclined to acquire CKD. And, just so you know, my Stage 3 cat has an SDMA reading of 13 - so you can see that, at least for me, I don't give the number a lot of credence, despite IRIS using it in reference to CKD stages. I am not as familiar with a high sodium level because Feeby has never had it - did you read about it on Tanya's web site to see if there are corrective actions that can be taken aside from a low sodium food?
I presume her T-4 (thyroid) level is OK?
Her foods are lower phosphorus. I ran them all by her vet, she said they should be absolutely fine.Love the site you mentioned. I am aware of the discrepancy in phosphorus levels. I know what the AAFCO has listed is definitely to high for a CKD cats or one that has the possibility if becoming CKD.The only thing we were both concerned about was I was giving her freeze dried chicken treats with her 2x a day asthma inhaler treatment and also put some on her food to disguise the med she gets prior to going to the vet for extreme anxiety. Company does not test the phosphate level of these treats, so I completely stopped those as phosphorus could be way to high.Vet seems much more concerned about her high normal level thyroid test, as it was much higher then last years senior bloodwork. So whatever she needs, if that is a phosphorus binder that is fine.She has not lost weight, no vomiting or diarrhea.She has never been fed fish.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #16
A messed up part about labeling, is that "chicken" could be chicken meat or chicken bone.
I was using 1.5 cubes of crumbled Nulo freeze dried chicken as a topper, it was the lowest phosphate freezedried food I found (0.9%DM ) a bit too high to use more. But I when I went to reorder 3 months later phosphates were changed to 1.3%.
Instinct freeze dried is the next lowest phosphate level that 1.1% my cat will still eat 1.1% DM
It is actually suppose to be cooked then freeze dried chicken cubes.It is a treat not food, so it is not tested at all. That is the only thing in her diet that changed since her senior bloodwork last year. I check all her foods before reordering, it is you me for not passing by the treats maybe. So I just stopped giving it to her. Vet definitely more concerned about her thyroid. Both concern me as there is a correlation between thyroid and kidney heath. Been here once before and that cat developed kidney issues after being diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. That complicates matter even more.I will continue to monitor her for changes.
Latest Posts
-
-
-
-
Post pics of calicos, tortieshells and orange cats here!- Latest: Morgana’s Human
-
