PaleoPet Diet?

ldg

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Don't be silly! We all started somewhere - and you've already overcome what is usually the major hurdle: your boy LOVES the food! :clap: AND you're already over another common hurdle - you understand it's what he should be eating. :nod: So as far as I'm concerned, you're already doing great!

This has nothing to do with being inadequate. It's about beginnings!

I fed my cats a prescription diet to control urinary crystals for 7 years. I simply had no real interest in cat nutrition, and trusted my vet. It wasn't until we rescued a health-challenged kitty that we had to start thinking outside the box. We found a holistic D.V.M., and the first thing she did when we met her was review his diet. She was appalled, and I was embarrassed. :lol3: The funny thing is, I care for ferals. I rescue ferals, I TNR... we live in a rural area, and I know what they eat in addition to the food we put out. They eat the small rodents, rabbits, and crickets. Yet even knowing this, it never occurred to me to wonder... what's IN that cat food I feed them? Well, she got me looking. It took me over a year to decide that I should be feeding raw food - a year wasted, as far as I'm concerned. I did immediately get rid of the kibble, and moved them to timed meals of wet food that is high protein low-carb. In fact, I learned a lot about nutrition arguing against raw (here on this site. :lol3: ). It was doing the research for that debating that led me to, in the end, feed it to my cats. And I am SO THANKFUL I did. The change I saw in them when we switched to all canned (high protein, low carb) was impressive. The switch to raw from canned was equally impressive. :nod:

Nutritional deficiencies don't happen overnight. I was a nervous wreck just thinking about feeding raw - it all seemed so overwhelming once I'd made the decision to feed it. The "how" was hard! But like you, I just dove in. I used commercial raw - and it's not perfect always either. I felt a false sense of security, because technically it meets the AAFCO "complete and balanced" thing. But I ran into a roadblock. I was using what was available to me locally, and that was Nature's Variety frozen raw food. It targets 15% bone. In prey model raw feeding, the guideline is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% "other secreting organ." Well too much bone means constipated cats (and too little bone means soft stools or diarrhea). And several of my cats got badly constipated. So I had to "thin out" that commercial food with just plain meat. And while it took a while to convince my cats that raw was even food - they'd been eating it for 3 months, and now loved it. And when I fed them little chunks of plain meat, they decided they didn't want ground food any longer. So I had to figure out how to balance meat. :lol3: I didn't have plans on feeding prey model raw, but if I wanted my cats eating raw, at that point I had little choice. And I learned how to do it over time, and they didn't suffer even though I wasn't doing it right at first.

You don't need to know everything to start. You can learn as you go. Do I eat a balanced diet at every meal? No. Do I eat a balance diet even every day? No.

So while it IS important to make sure your kitty gets everything he needs over time, it's not going to hurt him that you didn't do it perfectly right out of the gate. It's not like we're at a point in history where there's some microchip we can buy and stick in our heads and know everything about any given subject.... and the whole POINT of forums like this is to share, to exchange, and to learn from each other. :rub:

For all we know that diet is perfectly healthy. I still don't know what it is as I can't watch the video, so I don't know the recipe.

But if you stop and take just a moment to think about it... what is a mouse? It is meat, bones, and organs. Yes, there's some fur, but there's no nutritional value to insoluble fiber. So then that should be the building blocks, no?

If you want to make ground food, and you want time tested recipes, they exist:

http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html
http://www.holisticat.com/well-fed/
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood

If you don't have a grinder, if you do want to make your own ground food, it's highly recommended that you get your own. Buying pre-ground meat from the supermarket is usually riskier as re: pathogens, because it's the environment in which its made that can spread them so easily.

If you want to make home-made ground super easy without a grinder and you live in the U.S., you can order the whole ground animals from Hare-Today and just add in the Alnutrin supplement (the one for meat/bones/organs). The supplement is sold on the website, and there are a gazillion proteins to choose from: http://www.hare-today.com . I do recommend the one or two pound packages: the five pound packages are difficult to dethaw. :lol3: But just dethaw by putting in the fridge or in a bowl of cold water. When it's mostly dethawed, plop it in a bowl, add the alnutrin and the little bit of water as per instructions, mix it up well, the portion it into baggies or something, and refreeze. Easy peasy! I still order the ground pork and ground rabbit even though I mostly provide my kitties with my boneless version of prey model raw.

For further reading, the Raw Resources thread is helpful but overwhelming :lol3: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread

But please don't feel so discouraged that you give up. You're already over the major hurdles - just keep going, and learn as you go. :D
 
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Willowy

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Aww, don't be discouraged! Plus, there's nothing wrong with a totally unbalanced meal now and then, so don't give up and never give him any raw, especially since he likes it. Dry food is dehydrating and high in plant matter so they need the moisture and good protein in fresh meat. Have you considered feeding any canned food? I feed a base of canned food with a small amount of raw daily, while I research how to make my own ground mix so I can increase their raw intake.

I agree that the best easy way to feed a ground diet is to buy a variety of meats from Hare Today and add the supplement. Their meats, unlike the kind sold for humans, have the bones and organs ground right in. And even with shipping the prices are comparable to buying from a natural store. You could start with that while you research and learn and experiment with how to make your own. Might help you feel more confident about it.

I don't think the PaleoPet guy is a jerk. His concept of feeding cats and dogs what they're designed to eat is sound, just that his way of implemeting that diet is a little off, or at least seems that way from the videos and website. I'd like to talk to him personally to see if his ideas are more put together than what he presents publicly (could just be stage fright and a bad website designer). But even if he's a total crackpot, well, lots of people have totally crackpot ideas about what humans should eat. It doesn't mean they don't have some good points or that we should give up on trying to eat a healthy diet. We just need to do our own research, take what we can use from their ideas and leave the rest.
 
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carolina

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Maybe we were posting at the same time, but could you post the exact recipe you're using? The amounts, etc?
...and as to feeding the same thing day-in, day-out, when it comes to raw, because most of the nutrition is derived from the meat and organs, it's actually pretty important to rotate those protein sources. They have very different amounts of nutrients in them. I provided an example in another thread just recently, I'll go find it.
His recipe is not exact.... Oh he is SO bad :lol3:
He plopped some pre-ground turkey in a bowl - did not measure....
Then a raw salmon patty
a table spoon of canned pumpkin (he said a mouse is 35% fiber and a bird 50% :lol3:) - he said Pumpkin needs to be 1/4 of the meat
1 tbsp of yoghurt for probiotics
some cat grass for the 360 vitamin and minerals in it :lol3:
canned fish for flavoring - herring in that case

NO CALCIUM :thud:
 
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ldg

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Well, there would be SOME calcium in the canned fish. Not enough, but...

Yeah, he clearly didn't do much in the way of research. A mouse is not 35% fiber, and a bird is not 50%.

I agree with Willowy. His theories are sound. He's just lacking when it comes to implementation. And being new to the whole thing, there's no way to know that. So don't be so hard on yourself!
 

carolina

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Well, there would be SOME calcium in the canned fish. Not enough, but...
No - it was like a teaspoon, mostly the oil, for flavoring purposes only - like we use fortiflora or WL chicken :nod:
 

auntie crazy

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All of these postings have made me realize how inadequate I am. How I know nothing. How, I need to learn before I even attempt to start this. I should never have posted that video, because obviously the guy's a jerk and I didn't realize it. I'm going back to Purina Pro plan Cappy does well on it, loves it, and like one of you said - it has all the nutrients that he needs in the right balance. 
Writerhall, knowing how much healthier raw food is than standard commercial diets (especially kibble), why would you quit feeding raw based on this one video? And, goodness, didn't you mention Cappy loves his raw foods? For most, that's the biggest hurdle to feeding raw foods and you're already over it!


A raw diet totally doesn't have to be difficult, or even focused on just one way of feeding... for instance, there are several folks right here on TCS who offer their kitties a mix of canned, commercial raw, home-prepared ground or fresh prey model raw (PMR) diets. There are, in fact, so very many options available to you that there is sure to be something that fits your lifestyle and resources (time, finances, etc.).

The only real requirement to any diet is that it be balanced and contain variety, but that's actually easy with so many options to choose from.

If you're interested in commercial ground, here is a list that compares the ingredients and quality of the most widely available products: Commercial Raw Products Compared

If you're interested in buying the ingredients yourself - definitely the least expensive and most controlled of the options - there are several folks here who do so. Some then mix and grind the products, add a few supplements, and feed it to their kitties, while others go the prey model route and feed it to their cats in large pieces on a particular schedule (like this one). If you like, and have the finances to do so, you can even go online and purchase both whole and pre-ground products from places like MyPetCarnivore, Hare-Today and many others.

TCS is one of the best places to get support for raw feeding, no matter which feeding model you chose. I'm pretty sure everyone here initially started with standard commercial diets and had to figure out how to feed balanced raw, many of them on their own. Today, thankfully, we have a good strong network so no one has to go it alone!


Why not forget about this guy's video, start a new thread, and let us help you find the perfect diet for you and your sweet boy?


AC
 

cogvet

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The video has been updated and the URL changed to

 
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