Nv Frozen Raw Medallions And Vital Essentials Supply Issue

[LTS3]

FYI to anyone who feeds NV frozen raw medallions or Vital Essentials frozen raw:

There is a supply issue on the raw food A pet store owner told me that NV is changing the look of the bags and she has no idea when she will be able to get more of the medallions. The Raw Bites are unaffected as those are already in the new bag.

Vital Essentials frozen raw is also having supply issues. The pet store owner doesn't expect to have more Vital Essentials until after June

If you find any NV raw medallions or Vital Essentials in your local pet store, better stock up and wait out the supply issue.

This stinks for me because Leroy only eats the NV raw rabbit because he has IBD. The Raw Bites only come in chicken now and Leroy can't eat chicken. I have 2 unopened bags of NV rabbit in my freezer but those will be gone by the end of the month. I also have Emma to feed. I can feed her the Raw Bites if needed but I would have to keep Leroy away from her bowl. Anyone know how many Raw Bites would equal one medallion?

I just bought Primal frozen rabbit nuggets from a different pet store. Hopefully Leroy will eat it He's had Primal in the past but then decided it was yucky Neither cat will touch Rad Cat I've tried samples in the past. I have no freezer space for a minimum 10 lb order from HT.

Does any online pet supply store sell NV raw medallions for cats? I'm only finding the Raw Bites or the NV raw medallions for dogs.

 

[Tobermory]

Have you tried Smallbatch? They make frozen raw in complete meals called "sliders"--no supplements needed--and they also have single protein frozen raw called "blends" that have bone but need other supplements. I've used the rabbit blend and the turkey blend.
Frozen Raw | small batch pets

I emailed the company about the percentages of meat/bone/organs in their blends. They responded that they're 80/10/10.

 

[Frankophile Feline Fan]

Nature's Variety is changing their formula. They're introducing a new formula with 85% meat, organs, & bone to offer a lower-cost alternative. The "old" formula was 95% and relabeled "Signature."

I just came back empty-handed from my local Petco where they did an NV freezer reset. They're only going to be stocking the 1.25 lb. bags of chicken now, which really disappoints me. Several weeks after I adopted Colette and fed her the NV chicken, she was unable to keep any of it down. It could have been a bad batch or chicken allergy (ruled out), but I suspect the issue was too much stomach acid. I couldn't offer more feedings throughout the day to manage it with my work schedule. I now mix the raw with 50% NV cups & Colette adores the meaty chunks & gravy.

Anyway, it's back to Pet Supermarket for the NV rabbit back up, even though I feel their frozen isn't maintained as well as Petco. I usually find a bag in there frozen solid.

My mainstay is Primal. Their meat, organ, & bone content is 93% but the quality is high, they offer more flavors, and the service at the pet boutique beats the box stores. Primal is worth checking out.

 

[LTS3]

I tried Smallbatch. I got a few samples from the pet store. Emma wouldn't touch it. Leroy developed bald spots on his head from eating it Bald spots on his head means an allergic reaction.

I have not re-tried the Primal yet. I have one nugget defrosting in the fridge right now.

Nature's Variety is changing their formula. They're introducing a new formula with 85% meat, organs, & bone to offer a lower-cost alternative. The "old" formula was 95% and relabeled "Signature."

Just looked at the NV web site. They have two raw products listed now: the 95% meat one which is what I'm currently feeding (now being called Raw Signature) and the 85% meat one which looks like it's just being offered as Raw Bites for cats. The Raw Signature bags are smaller now, 2.7 lbs vs the 3 lb ones I have, and probably will still cost the same or more

I sent NV an email asking when they will resupply pet stores with the NV raw rabbit medallions in the new Raw Signature bags and why they don't offer raw in other novel proteins for cats. The raw for dogs is offered in a variety of proteins: lamb, venison, beef, duck.

 

[lisahe]

I'm sorry to hear about all these changes, LTS3 , I know Leroy's only able to eat certain kinds of food so I'm sure this is difficult.

Since Frankophile Feline Fan mentioned Primal, I'll add that the turkey Primal I bought a few weeks ago looks different from previous bags: the bricks are more even, both in terms of appearance and texture, though I'm not sure the ingredients have changed. (Primal has always varied a lot!) Our cats also love Primal so here's crossing my fingers, LTS3 that maybe Leroy won't find it so yucky this time. Good luck!

 

[LTS3]

I'm just hoping the Primal rabbit doesn't cause an IBD flare up Primal has a lot more veggies and extra stuff than NV.

The new Raw Signature rabbit has a different ingredient list than the NV rabbit I have I hope the new raw doesn't cause an IBD flare up either.

NV rabbit: Rabbit with ground bone, pork liver, pork heart, ground pork bone, pork fat, yeast culture, rabbit liver, pumpkin seeds, Montmorillonite clay, apples, broccoli, butternut squash, rabbit kidney, rabbit lung, salt, cod liver oil, dried kelp, carrot, spinach, taurine, mixed tocopherols, dried chicory root, cranberries

Raw Signature: Pork Heart, Ground Pork Bone, Pork Fat, Yeast Culture, Rabbit Liver, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Apples, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Rabbit Lung, Rabbit Kidney, Dried Kelp, Broccoli, Cod Liver Oil, Salt, Taurine, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Vitamin E Supplement, Dried Chicory Root, Blueberries

The Raw Signature is supposed to be 95% rabbit and organ and bone but I see no rabbit meat, just rabbit organs

 

[1 bruce 1]

I'm just hoping the Primal rabbit doesn't cause an IBD flare up Primal has a lot more veggies and extra stuff than NV.

The new Raw Signature rabbit has a different ingredient list than the NV rabbit I have I hope the new raw doesn't cause an IBD flare up either.

NV rabbit: Rabbit with ground bone, pork liver, pork heart, ground pork bone, pork fat, yeast culture, rabbit liver, pumpkin seeds, Montmorillonite clay, apples, broccoli, butternut squash, rabbit kidney, rabbit lung, salt, cod liver oil, dried kelp, carrot, spinach, taurine, mixed tocopherols, dried chicory root, cranberries

Raw Signature: Pork Heart, Ground Pork Bone, Pork Fat, Yeast Culture, Rabbit Liver, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Apples, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Rabbit Lung, Rabbit Kidney, Dried Kelp, Broccoli, Cod Liver Oil, Salt, Taurine, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Vitamin E Supplement, Dried Chicory Root, Blueberries

The Raw Signature is supposed to be 95% rabbit and organ and bone but I see no rabbit meat, just rabbit organs

Just an idea, even though the formulas are different, would adding plain ground muscle meat to the primal and keep the "veggies and other" to a minimum by bulking it out?

 

[Frankophile Feline Fan]

I'm just hoping the Primal rabbit doesn't cause an IBD flare up Primal has a lot more veggies and extra stuff than NV.

The new Raw Signature rabbit has a different ingredient list than the NV rabbit I have I hope the new raw doesn't cause an IBD flare up either.

NV rabbit: Rabbit with ground bone, pork liver, pork heart, ground pork bone, pork fat, yeast culture, rabbit liver, pumpkin seeds, Montmorillonite clay, apples, broccoli, butternut squash, rabbit kidney, rabbit lung, salt, cod liver oil, dried kelp, carrot, spinach, taurine, mixed tocopherols, dried chicory root, cranberries

Raw Signature: Pork Heart, Ground Pork Bone, Pork Fat, Yeast Culture, Rabbit Liver, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Apples, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Rabbit Lung, Rabbit Kidney, Dried Kelp, Broccoli, Cod Liver Oil, Salt, Taurine, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Vitamin E Supplement, Dried Chicory Root, Blueberries

The Raw Signature is supposed to be 95% rabbit and organ and bone but I see no rabbit meat, just rabbit organs

I just checked online. Rabbit is still the main ingredient in the NV Signature Rabbit:https://www.instinctpetfood.com/sit...om_to_templates_raw_frozen_v1_cats_rabbit.pdf

 

[LTS3]

I just checked online. Rabbit is still the main ingredient in the NV Signature Rabbit:https://www.instinctpetfood.com/sit...om_to_templates_raw_frozen_v1_cats_rabbit.pdf

I looked at the Raw Signature product web site last night and there was no rabbit meat listed in the ingredients. I copied and pasted the ingredient list above. Looks like it got changed since then

 

[Frankophile Feline Fan]

I believe it. When I first found Raw Signature in the NV website earlier last week, there were only pictures of the new bags with no text at all to explain the changes. I called the company directly & found out.

The website is apparently evolving & edited daily.

 

[Frankophile Feline Fan]

I believe it. When I first found Raw Signature in the NV website earlier last week, there were only pictures of the new bags with no text at all to explain the changes. I called the company directly & found out.

The website is apparently evolving & edited daily.

 

[LTS3]

Leroy seems to like the Primal ok But I think it might be causing poop issues? He didn't poop yesterday so went he went today it was a little dry and crumbly. I even found crumbs outside the litter box that Leroy tried to cover up... with air It's either the Primal or the new batch of HT rabbit with Alnutrin I started mixing into the NV on Friday. I'll hold off on the Primal for a few days to see if that's the cause of the crumbly poop or not.

 

[lisamarie12]

Leroy seems to like the Primal ok But I think it might be causing poop issues? He didn't poop yesterday so went he went today it was a little dry and crumbly. I even found crumbs outside the litter box that Leroy tried to cover up... with air It's either the Primal or the new batch of HT rabbit with Alnutrin I started mixing into the NV on Friday. I'll hold off on the Primal for a few days to see if that's the cause of the crumbly poop or not.

Primal rabbit is high in bone, the overall Calcium / phos
ratio is on the higher end. Some IBD cats have a hard time with ground bone and the rabbit is 10%.

One of my cats became badly constipated on Primal duck (several times) and I will no longer feed any commercial raw that is over 7% bone. I agree with Dr. Pierson (catinfo), the burden shouldn't fall on the cat to be able to "handle" higher bone percentages (ideally should be around 6%).

As far as HT rabbit, are you adding boneless rabbit to the NV mix or with bone? If the latter, that would also seem pretty high.

If you are going to use any Primal, the only reasonable proteins with 6 - 7 % bone would be pork, beef/salmon or venison.

Sorry Leroy is getting constipated, not the first time I've read this about Primal's rabbit.

 

[lisahe]

This is a good reminder about bone content Primal, L lisamarie12 , thank you!

 

[LTS3]

Primal rabbit is high in bone, the overall Calcium / phos
ratio is on the higher end. Some IBD cats have a hard time with ground bone and the rabbit is 10%.

As far as HT rabbit, are you adding boneless rabbit to the NV mix or with bone? If the latter, that would also seem pretty high.

If you are going to use any Primal, the only reasonable proteins with 6 - 7 % bone would be pork, beef/salmon or venison.
.

I'll get Primal pork or venison this weekend. I'll offer the rabbit to Emma with toppers. Would one Primal nugget be enough to cause crumby poop? Or maybe the combination that with the HT rabbit?

The HT rabbit is with bone. I've fed it in the past with no issue. Leroy only gets a spoonful mixed into the NV.

 

[sophie1]

Ugh, not good news! Abrupt supply cutoffs and ingredient changes is why I've been reluctant to rely on commercial food. Apart from the inflated pricing of course.

LTS3: I had contacted NV a while back asking about the difference between their cat and dog formulas, and the only difference is that taurine is added to the cat food - the formulas are otherwise identical. So you could buy dog food and sprinkle on some taurine at serving time. However - this is temporizing only because it looks like they've discontinued raw rabbit for dogs as well.

Are you sure you don't have space in your freezer for a 10 lb HT order? The 1 lb chubs pack in pretty efficiently. In the worst case, you could immediately defrost your order & repackage into flat ziploc bags. That would fit into just about any freezer.

 

[lisamarie12]

LTS3:

You could try a process of elimination but looking at e.g., HT rabbit with organs and bone, it is 15% bone. I've read, both on this forum and elsewhere, people using HT rabbit w/ bone usually dilute this with HT boneless rabbit to bring down the bone percentage.

"Whole ground rabbit includes meat, bones, head, and organs (liver, heart, lung, pancreas, thyroid gland, spleen and kidneys). The fur, stomach and intestine are removed.

Meat/Bone/Organ ratio: Note, heart and lung is considered a muscle meat for feeding purposes

75% meat 15% bone 10% organ [liver, pancreas, kidney]"

I also read -- and I cannot verify the accuracy of this, but someone who contacted NV and was told by NV that their bone percentage in cat food is 15% -- again, I don't know if it's true.

And then Primal on top of it at 10% .... yeah, way too much bone which is why some IBD cats are on boneless raw only, with a premix or with a recipe of supplements, or on raw with bone but with a lower bone percentage, either diluted or something a raw with 6-7%.

 

[lisamarie12]

This is a good reminder about bone content Primal, L lisamarie12 , thank you!

You know I have used Primal (and NV) in the past and Primal now for several years, and for a time it was in combination with some canned foods, however, when I fed it exclusively, the higher bone percentages, one cat can "handle" it, the other cannot and -- the cat that became constipated is the same cat that never had a problem with the higher bone percentages in commercial raw and even HT whole carcass grinds (which were 8-10%). So he could previously handle 10% but not any more.

I'm an equal opportunity critic: I totally support raw feeding and the commercial raw products have a place, however, again -- as Dr. Pierson states, many of them go beyond the bone percentage that a cat, in her natural habitat, would consume.

One of my cats had a horrible episode, four total -- and I thought I had it figured out, having to dilute his raw duck with either extra fat or duck breast and it seemed to work but when I was away, my s/o didn't do this.

But I don't see why we should have to dilute the bone percentage anyway for commercial raw -- especially given the cost of commercial raw, if the products are to be truly bio-appropriate, then these companies need to keep the bone percentage truly bio-appropriate for the cat.

HT is different, being homemade, tweaking the diet, etc...

From Dr. Pierson's page re: commercial raw:

Commercial Cat Foods

"Regarding bone content: The more bone material that is contained in the product, the higher the profit margin is for the company.

In a nutshell, when feeding some (which ones??) of the commercial with-bones diets to our cats, we are forcing them to consume far more bone material than they would be eating in the wild.

Think about it: When you watch Nat Geo Wild and you observe a lion take down a cape buffalo and eat it, that lion walks away leaving close to 100% of the skeleton (bones) behind for the smaller animals/vultures to pick over. They consume very little bone material.

Now look at the other end of the spectrum – the small, wild or domestic, cat that eats a whole mouse or bird – meat and all, or most, of the bones.

When the two are compared – large and small cats – you can see that there is a wide variation in bone consumption. However, the larger the prey animal (buffalo vs mouse), the higher the bone-to-meat ratio so the small cat is not consuming as much bone (relative to the meat) when it eats a mouse when compared to a lion eating an entire cape buffalo.

But what does “handle” really mean? Does it mean that they are barely dodging the constipation ‘bullet’ or are lucky enough to not end up with a life-threatening urethral obstruction due to too much bone (minerals) in their diet?

My strong feeling is that cats should not be fed ground up whole carcasses (e.g., rabbit, chicken, duck, etc.) because it forces them to eat more bone material than is optimal/safe.

The more bone material contained in the diet, the more minerals are filtered through the kidney and end up in the bladder. Minerals (calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, etc.,) are building blocks of crystals/stones which can obstruct the ureter or the urethra – especially in male cats since their urethra is longer and narrower than a female’s urethra.

So how much bone material relative to muscle meat/organs is optimal for our small cats to consume? I don’t know that there is a correct answer to that question but I do know that the range is wide and some cats may be able to handle more bone material than others."

 

[Frankophile Feline Fan]

You know I have used Primal (and NV) in the past and Primal now for several years, and for a time it was in combination with some canned foods, however, when I fed it exclusively, the higher bone percentages, one cat can "handle" it, the other cannot and -- the cat that became constipated is the same cat that never had a problem with the higher bone percentages in commercial raw and even HT whole carcass grinds (which were 8-10%). So he could previously handle 10% but not any more.

I'm an equal opportunity critic: I totally support raw feeding and the commercial raw products have a place, however, again -- as Dr. Pierson states, many of them go beyond the bone percentage that a cat, in her natural habitat, would consume.

One of my cats had a horrible episode, four total -- and I thought I had it figured out, having to dilute his raw duck with either extra fat or duck breast and it seemed to work but when I was away, my s/o didn't do this.

But I don't see why we should have to dilute the bone percentage anyway for commercial raw -- especially given the cost of commercial raw, if the products are to be truly bio-appropriate, then these companies need to keep the bone percentage truly bio-appropriate for the cat.

HT is different, being homemade, tweaking the diet, etc...

From Dr. Pierson's page re: commercial raw:

Commercial Cat Foods

"Regarding bone content: The more bone material that is contained in the product, the higher the profit margin is for the company.

In a nutshell, when feeding some (which ones??) of the commercial with-bones diets to our cats, we are forcing them to consume far more bone material than they would be eating in the wild.

Think about it: When you watch Nat Geo Wild and you observe a lion take down a cape buffalo and eat it, that lion walks away leaving close to 100% of the skeleton (bones) behind for the smaller animals/vultures to pick over. They consume very little bone material.

Now look at the other end of the spectrum – the small, wild or domestic, cat that eats a whole mouse or bird – meat and all, or most, of the bones.

When the two are compared – large and small cats – you can see that there is a wide variation in bone consumption. However, the larger the prey animal (buffalo vs mouse), the higher the bone-to-meat ratio so the small cat is not consuming as much bone (relative to the meat) when it eats a mouse when compared to a lion eating an entire cape buffalo.

But what does “handle” really mean? Does it mean that they are barely dodging the constipation ‘bullet’ or are lucky enough to not end up with a life-threatening urethral obstruction due to too much bone (minerals) in their diet?

My strong feeling is that cats should not be fed ground up whole carcasses (e.g., rabbit, chicken, duck, etc.) because it forces them to eat more bone material than is optimal/safe.

The more bone material contained in the diet, the more minerals are filtered through the kidney and end up in the bladder. Minerals (calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, etc.,) are building blocks of crystals/stones which can obstruct the ureter or the urethra – especially in male cats since their urethra is longer and narrower than a female’s urethra.

So how much bone material relative to muscle meat/organs is optimal for our small cats to consume? I don’t know that there is a correct answer to that question but I do know that the range is wide and some cats may be able to handle more bone material than others."

That's kind of scary. I'm feeding wet & raw to avoid these problems. Are there any studies on this?

 

[LTS3]

As recent as mid last month Leroy had HT rabbit with bone and Alnutrin mixed into the NV. No issues with poop then.

Not sure if the doxycycline Leroy was on prior to the crumbly poop has anything to do with it. Leroy's poop habits changed from daily to every other day while on doxycycline.

The vet ok'd giving Miralax to help the poop issue. Leroy can poop just fine but we'd like to avoid constipation.

Are you sure you don't have space in your freezer for a 10 lb HT order? The 1 lb chubs pack in pretty efficiently. In the worst case, you could immediately defrost your order & repackage into flat ziploc bags. That would fit into just about any freezer.

Nope. The freezer has a 6.3 cubic feet capacity. The bags of NV and portioned out HT/Alnutrin mixture takes up most of the space. What little space left I need for my frozen foods. It's easiest to just buy chubs as needed from the pet store. A stand alone freezer is not an option.