Not sure how things are going, or what to do next

[Mimi73]

Sorry this will be sort of long probably. We've had cats my whole life. When I was a kid, we lived in the country on a farm. We had barn cats, house cats...they all just coexisted, I don't remember having to do introductions or any big issues. As an adult, My husband and I got a cat when our oldest daughter was about a year. She lived almost 21 years. When she was about 14, we took in three 1 day old bottle babies to foster. We ended up keeping all three siblings and we adored them all. We lost one at 10 to cancer, another at 12 from a saddle thrombosis and then just over a year ago, I lost our last one, just a few months shy of her 16th birthday. I was devastated and swore I wouldn't get another cat, not for a good long while anyway. My daughter who was almost 16 too, had never known life without a cat, the kittens were only a few months old when she was born. We lost our girl in September....by December she was really, really missing a kitty friend. So she started volunteering at the humane society and got her cat fix that way. About three weeks into that, she started talking about a kitty that was a little older, that nobody had enquired about and he'd been there several months, looked sad...etc. So I went with her to meet him and he was so sad and sweet. He'd been an outdoor neighborhood stray until someone had brought him in. We brought him home to foster and a ended up adopting him a few days before Christmas. He's probably at least 8 years old, maybe a little older, he was definitely not used to being in a home, but he did great, he didn't like to be picked up or held, but he loved to have his neck scratched and a few rubs down his back, but he doesn't like to be overstimulated. He took to home really well, he has spots around the house that he made his own and he follows us around. He is really a sweet, unique old fella...a little on the grumpy side, but we just knew his boundaries. So my daughter continued to volunteer occasionally and an opportunity to foster a couple almost 5 month old kittens came and we decided to do it. For the first several weeks they were here, our resident cat didn't even know they were here. They were down in the bathroom off the back room and he never went back there. One afternoon one of the kittens escaped and ran right up to our resident cat, there was some hissing on his part and we got the kitten and put it back. It happened another time when we had company and someone didn't get the door shut and they both escaped and we didn't know. They weren't out too long, we got them put back and after that he was curious. At the shelter he seemed to ignore the other cats so we started talking about keeping them, we were in love at that point. One of the kittens was super lovey and the other very skittish of humans having been born in the shelter. But they were VERY bonded. We hated the idea of them being separated after we had raised siblings, we knew how they loved each other. The both kittens had become very attached to me and I adore them both. We didn't really follow any kind of plan. We moved the kittens to a room in the main part of the house for a few weeks and they all heard each other through the door. We would shut resident cat in a room and let the kittens run the house for a bit every day and put a gate in the door so they could see each other then eventually let them out together for little bits of time. We have feliway optimums plug ins going and I have no idea of they help or not. It seemed to be going okay...with some hissing and growling from resident cat, but felt that was fairly normal. They were able to be out together for longer periods of time and seemed to be doing well. We went ahead and paid the adoption fee and felt pretty good about it. They eat in their room and resident cat eats in his room. Before they came he loved to lie on his corner of the table in the dining room where I do puzzles. He also had a cat tree that he would sleep on by the window downstairs. Since they have had more run of the house, he barely comes down and if he does, he doesn't relax in his places. The last few days he's become even more grumpy, swiping at us if we try to pet him if the kittens are around, hissing at them more and before if he hissed or swatted at them, they'd back off and run away, and the female still does. She has learned to just leave him be for the most part, but our male kitten is fascinated by him. He follows him around a little...and he does this army crawl thing where he drags himself over to him and sometimes rolls his belly up to him. The last day or so though, if resident cat hisses or swats at him, our male kitten has growled back and swatted back. So we have put them back in their room for a few days for a cooling off period. While they were locked up, resident cat came down and was all over the house, in his spots some and seemed a little happier. Today we let them back out and things went really well...until this evening when the kittens got up on the puzzle table and went to sleep while I was working. When resident cat came down and jumped up there he started sniffing at the male kitten who was asleep, then he woke up and growled a little at our old guy which caused him to get made, hiss and then run off back upstairs. So at meal time, we locked the babies back up and they will probably stay in here most of the day tomorrow while I'm at work. They tolerate being around each other most of the time, and were doing so good. I felt pretty good about it. Now I'm just really worried that we made a huge mistake. We love the babies and won't give them up at this point, but we will have to find a way to make resident cat happy again. It literally breaks my heart...he he was such a happy old guy to have his home and all his places and his people...and I feel like we just ruined his life. We love him so much, we just wanted him to have a happy home after al his years on the streets and obviously, just because he ignored cats in the shelter didn't mean he doesn't care. We adore him so much. And as much as I love these babies, and love the cuddles from our little guy, I do wish at times I'd said no to fostering and just left resident kitty as the only one. I don't know if he'll ever be happy again at this point.

 

[Mimi73]

I want to add that both kittens have been fixed. And I have just watched some videos about cat introductions. We tried it a few days ago and resident cat WILL NOT eat away from his spot. He is very, very stuck to his routine.

 

[K&T]

Sorry this will be sort of long probably. We've had cats my whole life. When I was a kid, we lived in the country on a farm. We had barn cats, house cats...they all just coexisted, I don't remember having to do introductions or any big issues. As an adult, My husband and I got a cat when our oldest daughter was about a year. She lived almost 21 years. When she was about 14, we took in three 1 day old bottle babies to foster. We ended up keeping all three siblings and we adored them all. We lost one at 10 to cancer, another at 12 from a saddle thrombosis and then just over a year ago, I lost our last one, just a few months shy of her 16th birthday. I was devastated and swore I wouldn't get another cat, not for a good long while anyway. My daughter who was almost 16 too, had never known life without a cat, the kittens were only a few months old when she was born. We lost our girl in September....by December she was really, really missing a kitty friend. So she started volunteering at the humane society and got her cat fix that way. About three weeks into that, she started talking about a kitty that was a little older, that nobody had enquired about and he'd been there several months, looked sad...etc. So I went with her to meet him and he was so sad and sweet. He'd been an outdoor neighborhood stray until someone had brought him in. We brought him home to foster and a ended up adopting him a few days before Christmas. He's probably at least 8 years old, maybe a little older, he was definitely not used to being in a home, but he did great, he didn't like to be picked up or held, but he loved to have his neck scratched and a few rubs down his back, but he doesn't like to be overstimulated. He took to home really well, he has spots around the house that he made his own and he follows us around. He is really a sweet, unique old fella...a little on the grumpy side, but we just knew his boundaries. So my daughter continued to volunteer occasionally and an opportunity to foster a couple almost 5 month old kittens came and we decided to do it. For the first several weeks they were here, our resident cat didn't even know they were here. They were down in the bathroom off the back room and he never went back there. One afternoon one of the kittens escaped and ran right up to our resident cat, there was some hissing on his part and we got the kitten and put it back. It happened another time when we had company and someone didn't get the door shut and they both escaped and we didn't know. They weren't out too long, we got them put back and after that he was curious. At the shelter he seemed to ignore the other cats so we started talking about keeping them, we were in love at that point. One of the kittens was super lovey and the other very skittish of humans having been born in the shelter. But they were VERY bonded. We hated the idea of them being separated after we had raised siblings, we knew how they loved each other. The both kittens had become very attached to me and I adore them both. We didn't really follow any kind of plan. We moved the kittens to a room in the main part of the house for a few weeks and they all heard each other through the door. We would shut resident cat in a room and let the kittens run the house for a bit every day and put a gate in the door so they could see each other then eventually let them out together for little bits of time. We have feliway optimums plug ins going and I have no idea of they help or not. It seemed to be going okay...with some hissing and growling from resident cat, but felt that was fairly normal. They were able to be out together for longer periods of time and seemed to be doing well. We went ahead and paid the adoption fee and felt pretty good about it. They eat in their room and resident cat eats in his room. Before they came he loved to lie on his corner of the table in the dining room where I do puzzles. He also had a cat tree that he would sleep on by the window downstairs. Since they have had more run of the house, he barely comes down and if he does, he doesn't relax in his places. The last few days he's become even more grumpy, swiping at us if we try to pet him if the kittens are around, hissing at them more and before if he hissed or swatted at them, they'd back off and run away, and the female still does. She has learned to just leave him be for the most part, but our male kitten is fascinated by him. He follows him around a little...and he does this army crawl thing where he drags himself over to him and sometimes rolls his belly up to him. The last day or so though, if resident cat hisses or swats at him, our male kitten has growled back and swatted back. So we have put them back in their room for a few days for a cooling off period. While they were locked up, resident cat came down and was all over the house, in his spots some and seemed a little happier. Today we let them back out and things went really well...until this evening when the kittens got up on the puzzle table and went to sleep while I was working. When resident cat came down and jumped up there he started sniffing at the male kitten who was asleep, then he woke up and growled a little at our old guy which caused him to get made, hiss and then run off back upstairs. So at meal time, we locked the babies back up and they will probably stay in here most of the day tomorrow while I'm at work. They tolerate being around each other most of the time, and were doing so good. I felt pretty good about it. Now I'm just really worried that we made a huge mistake. We love the babies and won't give them up at this point, but we will have to find a way to make resident cat happy again. It literally breaks my heart...he he was such a happy old guy to have his home and all his places and his people...and I feel like we just ruined his life. We love him so much, we just wanted him to have a happy home after al his years on the streets and obviously, just because he ignored cats in the shelter didn't mean he doesn't care. We adore him so much. And as much as I love these babies, and love the cuddles from our little guy, I do wish at times I'd said no to fostering and just left resident kitty as the only one. I don't know if he'll ever be happy again at this point.

I’m going to be brutally honest. I don’t think your cats will ever get along.
Some cats are better in small homes without other pets or children. My aunt had a cat like this and she was very shy and grumpy, never coming out from under the bed. I felt so bad for her.
That was until she was adopted by a fine young man who lived by himself. She was out in the open more and was very relaxed.

It’s unfair for your cat to have to live with being uncomfortable. I think it might be best to either give up on your other cats or give away mr.grumpy.

 

[K&T]

I’m going to be brutally honest. I don’t think your cats will ever get along.
Some cats are better in small homes without other pets or children. My aunt had a cat like this and she was very shy and grumpy, never coming out from under the bed. I felt so bad for her.
That was until she was adopted by a fine young man who lived by himself. She was out in the open more and was very relaxed.

It’s unfair for your cat to have to live with being uncomfortable. I think it might be best to either give up on your other cats or give away mr.grumpy. Obviously to a home with no pets and no children.

 

[Mimi73]

I'm not going to give up on them that easy. I've never given up an animal...and we've had MANY over the last 34 years since we've been married. They are lifetime loves. Giving one of them up won't even be on the table this early. It's been a few weeks and for the most part it has gone fairly well. I just want to make sure going forward we try everything we can. If worse comes to worse, I have a big house...we can figure something out with territory. I didn't say resident cat never comes out...he does. He even comes out when they kittens are around. He's just lost his relaxed state and I need to figure out how to let him know it's still his home, still his safe place and he's always going to be loved. From what I've seen online, it's normal for an older cat to react this way...but going forward I don't want to make any more mistakes since we didn't know anything about doing introductions a certain way.

 

[K&T]

I'm not going to give up on them that easy. I've never given up an animal...and we've had MANY over the last 34 years since we've been married. They are lifetime loves. Giving one of them up won't even be on the table this early. It's been a few weeks and for the most part it has gone fairly well. I just want to make sure going forward we try everything we can. If worse comes to worse, I have a big house...we can figure something out with territory. I didn't say resident cat never comes out...he does. He even comes out when they kittens are around. He's just lost his relaxed state and I need to figure out how to let him know it's still his home, still his safe place and he's always going to be loved. From what I've seen online, it's normal for an older cat to react this way...but going forward I don't want to make any more mistakes since we didn't know anything about doing introductions a certain way.

Try feeding your cat at the same time every day, scheduling a set playtime, keeping their bed in the same spot, and staying on top of litter box cleaning. Routine is a big yes to stop cats from becoming territorial. Maybe slowly incorporate the other cats in his routine?
And I mean very slowly. If his routine is suddenly broken he can become more aggressive.

 

[Mimi73]

We definitely have a routine. Maybe that has helped. We have since before we got him and the kittens are on the same one. They all get fed at the same time because we have alarms set to give our dog her meds for cushings disease. We do not get off that schedule because it's life saving for her. They are fed...and boxes cleaned on the morning and before bed and anytime someone walks by and they are used...we scoop. Multiple times a day. We have 5 boxes spread through the house. We have always offered lots of options for our cats. Played with all before bed. Resident cat knows at bedtime after the dogs go out the last time he comes up and gets a cookie with them. He and the dogs know the routine for sure. The kittens were coming to get a treat too before we separated them again. And they'd eat it within a few feet of each other. We know how important a schedule is. Our cat we lost a year ago was diabetic and had kidney issues...we had alarms for her glucose test twice a day and others for her meals and shots.

So we'll keep up with the routine and seperating and just doing small doses of each other until they manage better I guess.
The kittens are just shy of 6 months old now and they hate being confined...so there crying and scratching at the door is stressful for everyone. They are very affectionate and I worry that the on and off again seperating from humans will make them less trusting and then less affectionate.

 

[Alldara]

I want to add that both kittens have been fixed. And I have just watched some videos about cat introductions. We tried it a few days ago and resident cat WILL NOT eat away from his spot. He is very, very stuck to his routine.

Hey. Just skip the feeding at doors part of it causes him stress. You can still feed the kittens there and offer him a treat or something if you want, but don't worry about that much. Just continue on with the rest of intros.

I've never done the feeding part. It is too stressful for many cats.

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide - TheCatSite

 

[Alldara]

You can do some site swapping which helps with kittens energy and being confined.

I introduced Nobel to Magnus when Nobel was 14. It was long, but as long as Nobel was able to relax fully when Magnus was "away" in the room I knew he would be okay.

Edit to add: afterwards, I slowly opened the house up to Magnus from Nobel's perspective. We did just the one room, then the room and the hallway and Nobel on the landing and stairs.

Next Magnus also had access to the bedroom.

Then he could come downstairs to the main level.

This is all during intros so he was still away for part or much of the day. That gradual sharing of space is really helpful to the resident cat.

Nobel had arthritis so one of us would stay near him and just prevent Magnus from getting "too close for comfort", whatever that was that day.

 

[Hellenww]

Last September we were in a similar situation. Our 14yr old, Sqeeker lost his very bonded older brother, Yoshi, a month earlier. He is a very skittish cats with humans, even us after all these yrs so we thought he needed a cat. We got 2 5mt kittens, Leo & Luna. Immediately Sqeeker wanted them where he could see them but not near him or looking at him. I saw this as "The devil you know is less scary than the one you don't" They have been very respectful of him.

Early on Luna ignored him and for Leo it was love at first site. He was the same as your young male minus the growl or slap back. He just falls over when Sqeek hisses. They all used all the litter boxes. Around 6wks was the first time I saw Sqeeker get in the box next to Luna. He occasionally did this with Yoshi. Luna just moved over and they both took care of business. The kittens were fed wet meals at the other end of the kitchen. About 2 1/2 wks in Sqeeker wouldn't eat and was looking from Luna to Yoshi's dinner spot and back so I moved her there and he ate.

It took about 4 months until Sqeek completely comfortable. There were times he really looked misserable and disheveled. Because he was eating, drinking, and using the box we stuck with it. Watching the kits play, Sqeek would get relaxed and later happy looks on his face.

Now a year later, he's not close friends with them but finds them useful. Sqeek follows Luna's lead at meal times and keeps eating until she is done. Sqeeker is a small 6lb and Luna is only 10lb. He will wrestle with her every now and then with her always going ragdoll after a few min to let him win. But then almost no other interaction.

Leo is 16lb and still in love with Sqeeker who just tolerates him and uses him for warmth. Leo follows Sqeek, rolls over and tries to look cute only to get smacked.

It sounds like your adult is scared and curious with scared taking the lead. Your instincts are good. You're giving your adult time when the kittens are locked away, time for the kittens to be out, and time when they all have the run of the house and it sounds like it's mostly going well.

Some cats are Goldylocks, sleeping in everyone elses bed, and some The Princess and The Pea, wanting a pristine prefect bed. I'd move the kittens to another spot if they are in one of his favorite spots. Then give them lots of praise in the new spot.

Your old guy is very tense. Does he like cat nip? If so get him a kicker toy and cat nip so he can get a little crazy and get rid of some of that tension. Will he play with you and a string toy? He's not confident enough to let you touch him yet. Would he like to be scratched with a long handled back scrtacher or brush? Try interacting with him just after your shower before your hands or clothes smell like kitten.

Today we let them back out and things went really well...until this evening when the kittens got up on the puzzle table and went to sleep while I was working. When resident cat came down and jumped up there he started sniffing at the male kitten who was asleep, then he woke up and growled a little at our old guy which caused him to get made, hiss and then run off back upstairs.

This isn't completely bad. Your adults 1st response was curiosity not immediate fear. Neither tried to fight and the kiiten didn't chase the moving target. Hissing, growling, and nails in swatting is all regular cat communication. Hopefully your adult will understand that there was a little talk but nobody tried to hurt him.

Get a few big pieces of cardboard to keep nearby so you can put between them if both decide to stand their ground. I'd be surprised if that happened.

Calm patience is the way to go. If your old guy senses your calm he's more likely to be calm himself.

 

[Mimi73]

Your old guy is very tense. Does he like cat nip? If so get him a kicker toy and cat nip so he can get a little crazy and get rid of some of that tension. Will he play with you and a string toy? He's not confident enough to let you touch him yet. Would he like to be scratched with a long handled back scrtacher or brush? Try interacting with him just after your shower before your hands or clothes smell like kitten.

He is a pretty tense old fella. He does like catnip some. He has a kicker toy but doesn't seem to know what to do with it. He sits on it...bats it around a little. I really don't think he ever saw a toy before he came here. He has just one or two that he plays with but it's not his favorite thing to do. He lets us pet him...he loves a good neck and chin scratching. He just doesn't like to be picked up...he just stiffens up and tenses up, but tolerates it on occasion. He will come sit on the arm of the chair or near you on the couch and let you pet him a little but just doesn't want to get in your lap. He will get in bed with me occasionally and stand near me and want me to pet him and he purrs SOOO loud. He has this magnificent purr that we just love. He's really a cool cat and we think he is SO handsome. He's always been a little grumpy but we have so enjoyed him and loved giving him a home. That's why this has been so hard watching him be so unhappy. I hope that someday he'll be happy again. He always used to lie on the table while I did puzzles and I'd pat his head here and there and he's swoosh his tale and knock pieces everywhere. I miss doing that with him...I haven't had puzzles out much since the kittens came. They'll someday learn about the puzzles...but right now they are too rambunctious. lol

I'm prepared to take this is as slow as we need to. I'm glad to hear that we are doing something right. My biggest fear is that he, or one of the babies would start marking all over the house. I'm hoping to do all we can to avoid that. Someone told me the other day that if they were going to do that, they would have by now...but I've read that's not necessarily the case. I hope I'm doing all I can to keep that from happening.

Our little male really is fascinated with our old guy. Only thing that worries me is that because our old cat has swatted at him and hissed at him, that he's now started to growl, hiss and swat back some. But he does it timidly. He still army crawls towards him and is so curious about him. Follows him around but doesn't get in his face. Tonight he army crawled up behind him and touched his tail really gently. Big guy turned around and hissed and went away. He's such a sweet little boy, he seems so sensitive and lovey...I don't want that to change so I hope he and the big guy can work it out. He likes to snuggle up to me, and touch my face. If I move he meeps at me and readjusts his paw so he has to touch my face. His sister is similar to the old cat. She isn't super fond of being picked up and held...but she LOVES to be petted and she purrs like crazy. Maybe that's why they get along a little better than with the male...she is similar to him. She gets friendlier with me all the time and in fact last night she came and got into my lap and snuggled down and stayed there for a long time. It melted my heart. She was one of the reasons we decided to keep them...we knew her brother would go fast because he is so gentle and sweet and cuddly...and she would be left because she is not cuddly...yet. But they are inseparable and love each other so much. They are such good babies and old guy is such a unique personality...they are all just precious souls.

 

[Mimi73]

So the last couple days, things seem to have been going so much better. Hardly any hissing, old guy has been out more when the babies are, seems a little interested in them. Just over all a better atmosphere. BUT....then tonight, right as we were getting ready for bed, he decided he was going to go in to the room where the kittens stay when we lock them up at night or during the day...their litter boxes and food dishes re in there and some toys. One of the toys was a big stuffed kicker carrot that had been down in the living room. It was one of the toys our old fella would sometimes play with, bat around, but mostly just sit on it. I think we saw him kick at it once. He hadn't touched it in weeks. The kittens dragged it by the feather all around the house and it was lying in their room a few feet away from the litter box. My daughter saw him go in there, he sniffed all around the room, then went over and pawed around in one of their litter boxes but didn't use it, instead walked over to his carrot and squatted on it and peed on it a little. She yelled oh no and it startled him mid stream I think and then he went out and I came down, we got the carpet machine out, sucked it up, threw the carrot out and poured Skout's honor on it to soak. He went on out and we didn't scold him or anything we just cleaned it up and finished getting ready for bed. My daughter was almost in tears though. She remembers the misery of when our last kitty was nearing the end of her life and she couldn't get in and out of the litter box, so she used puppy pads, but before it got real bad she'd marked around the house a little and ruined some things. My husband was understanding with her, she was so old and sick and had diabetes and kidney issues and once we figured out she couldn't get in the box and needed pads, it fixed that problem...but if he starts marking and ruins things and makes the house smell, or God forbid the kittens start up too...It will just cause a lot of problems. I never had this issue growing up with cats...but read about it on fb sites or here all the time so it had really made me nervous. I had thought things were going so well...and it's been two months now since the kittens came and he hadn't done anything...that we were maybe going to be okay.
Do you think this is a one and done type thing because it was his old toy, or is this the beginning of a pee war? It has been really stressful here today and unusually loud. My grandkids are staying since last night until tomorrow and my grandson who is 5 has autism and is non speaking. Today he had a really bad day because he didn't sleep well last night so there was a lot of crying and noise. I'm hoping maybe it was just a stress combo and maybe it was just too much. I'm hoping tomorrow will be more like it usually is when they are here and not so stressful.
I still have the feliway plug ins going, I am wondering if I should use the multi cat ones instead of the optimum...are there any opinions about that either way? I'm not even sure they are doing anything and they are so expensive. :/

 

[Alldara]

Hi Mimi, it sounds to me like he just was marking his territory and wants his toy back. Once it's cleaned, get some catnip on to it and play with him with it sometimes.

Personally, I found Multicat better even for regular stress than Optimum. In terms of what has worked best for my cats, in order it's been MultiCat, Classic and then Optimum. I'd rather go without than get the Optimum ones really. If you have some in package still, maybe you can exchange them?

The plugs will never fully solve the problem, but it just helps cats to be better at handling it. For example I note that Magnus is more jumpy when he doesn't have it on and we have guests.

 

[Mimi73]

Hi Mimi, it sounds to me like he just was marking his territory and wants his toy back. Once it's cleaned, get some catnip on to it and play with him with it sometimes.

Personally, I found Multicat better even for regular stress than Optimum. In terms of what has worked best for my cats, in order it's been MultiCat, Classic and then Optimum. I'd rather go without than get the Optimum ones really. If you have some in package still, maybe you can exchange them?

The plugs will never fully solve the problem, but it just helps cats to be better at handling it. For example I note that Magnus is more jumpy when he doesn't have it on and we have guests.

My daughter threw the toy in the trash last night. :/ There were actually two of them. The other one is still around here somewhere so we could use it with him. It wouldn't smell the same as that one though, but after I had tried to clean the first one, it wouldn't have been the same anyway. I think it's put up somewhere for now.

Things are worse than they have been the whole time they've been here. I know compared to some situations it's not awful, but for them it is. My grandkids/and grandpup went home this afternoon. We had left the kittens shut up in their room the entire day just because it had been so chaotic around here. Our old guy has been acting keyed up since last night. Then today he slept all day and I slept in the kitten room with them for a few hours. Got out to make dinner and he came down then. The kittens were howling and scratching and beating on the door to come out, so I let them out a few minutes and old guy went on the attack right away, soon as our little male got near him he started swatting him and our little guy stood up and used both paws and kind of half heartedly swatted back and then he ran away. He ran upstairs so I went up to get him and old guy ran up past me to see what I was doing and then followed me back after I'd picked up the baby to bring back to the room. We had gone a few days and things were going SO well. The only thing I can think of is that having the kids here and all the noise on top of everything was just too much for him and now he's really agitated. I hate leaving the kittens in that room to cry and beat on the door. They very much just want to be where you are. It looks like we are going backwards yet again.

I have 2 more of the optimums coming from chewy tomorrow, but I can return them and get the multi cat if it works a little better. I keep seeing people say they give their cat some type of calming supplement...starts with a Z, but now I can't think of it. Does that work?

 

[Aileen666]

Sorry this will be sort of long probably. We've had cats my whole life. When I was a kid, we lived in the country on a farm. We had barn cats, house cats...they all just coexisted, I don't remember having to do introductions or any big issues. As an adult, My husband and I got a cat when our oldest daughter was about a year. She lived almost 21 years. When she was about 14, we took in three 1 day old bottle babies to foster. We ended up keeping all three siblings and we adored them all. We lost one at 10 to cancer, another at 12 from a saddle thrombosis and then just over a year ago, I lost our last one, just a few months shy of her 16th birthday. I was devastated and swore I wouldn't get another cat, not for a good long while anyway. My daughter who was almost 16 too, had never known life without a cat, the kittens were only a few months old when she was born. We lost our girl in September....by December she was really, really missing a kitty friend. So she started volunteering at the humane society and got her cat fix that way. About three weeks into that, she started talking about a kitty that was a little older, that nobody had enquired about and he'd been there several months, looked sad...etc. So I went with her to meet him and he was so sad and sweet. He'd been an outdoor neighborhood stray until someone had brought him in. We brought him home to foster and a ended up adopting him a few days before Christmas. He's probably at least 8 years old, maybe a little older, he was definitely not used to being in a home, but he did great, he didn't like to be picked up or held, but he loved to have his neck scratched and a few rubs down his back, but he doesn't like to be overstimulated. He took to home really well, he has spots around the house that he made his own and he follows us around. He is really a sweet, unique old fella...a little on the grumpy side, but we just knew his boundaries. So my daughter continued to volunteer occasionally and an opportunity to foster a couple almost 5 month old kittens came and we decided to do it. For the first several weeks they were here, our resident cat didn't even know they were here. They were down in the bathroom off the back room and he never went back there. One afternoon one of the kittens escaped and ran right up to our resident cat, there was some hissing on his part and we got the kitten and put it back. It happened another time when we had company and someone didn't get the door shut and they both escaped and we didn't know. They weren't out too long, we got them put back and after that he was curious. At the shelter he seemed to ignore the other cats so we started talking about keeping them, we were in love at that point. One of the kittens was super lovey and the other very skittish of humans having been born in the shelter. But they were VERY bonded. We hated the idea of them being separated after we had raised siblings, we knew how they loved each other. The both kittens had become very attached to me and I adore them both. We didn't really follow any kind of plan. We moved the kittens to a room in the main part of the house for a few weeks and they all heard each other through the door. We would shut resident cat in a room and let the kittens run the house for a bit every day and put a gate in the door so they could see each other then eventually let them out together for little bits of time. We have feliway optimums plug ins going and I have no idea of they help or not. It seemed to be going okay...with some hissing and growling from resident cat, but felt that was fairly normal. They were able to be out together for longer periods of time and seemed to be doing well. We went ahead and paid the adoption fee and felt pretty good about it. They eat in their room and resident cat eats in his room. Before they came he loved to lie on his corner of the table in the dining room where I do puzzles. He also had a cat tree that he would sleep on by the window downstairs. Since they have had more run of the house, he barely comes down and if he does, he doesn't relax in his places. The last few days he's become even more grumpy, swiping at us if we try to pet him if the kittens are around, hissing at them more and before if he hissed or swatted at them, they'd back off and run away, and the female still does. She has learned to just leave him be for the most part, but our male kitten is fascinated by him. He follows him around a little...and he does this army crawl thing where he drags himself over to him and sometimes rolls his belly up to him. The last day or so though, if resident cat hisses or swats at him, our male kitten has growled back and swatted back. So we have put them back in their room for a few days for a cooling off period. While they were locked up, resident cat came down and was all over the house, in his spots some and seemed a little happier. Today we let them back out and things went really well...until this evening when the kittens got up on the puzzle table and went to sleep while I was working. When resident cat came down and jumped up there he started sniffing at the male kitten who was asleep, then he woke up and growled a little at our old guy which caused him to get made, hiss and then run off back upstairs. So at meal time, we locked the babies back up and they will probably stay in here most of the day tomorrow while I'm at work. They tolerate being around each other most of the time, and were doing so good. I felt pretty good about it. Now I'm just really worried that we made a huge mistake. We love the babies and won't give them up at this point, but we will have to find a way to make resident cat happy again. It literally breaks my heart...he he was such a happy old guy to have his home and all his places and his people...and I feel like we just ruined his life. We love him so much, we just wanted him to have a happy home after al his years on the streets and obviously, just because he ignored cats in the shelter didn't mean he doesn't care. We adore him so much. And as much as I love these babies, and love the cuddles from our little guy, I do wish at times I'd said no to fostering and just left resident kitty as the only one. I don't know if he'll ever be happy again at this point.

I’m in a similar situation ( kind of). I had two cats. One passed a year ago and I took a year to think about getting the 15 year old I have another fur friend. I went to the shelter and after three times I finally found one I thought would be perfect. He is 8. Came from a place where he had a sister ( his sister was adopted ). Well the Introduction process is going terrible. I swapped blankets , rooms , used the screen that was recommended and it’s not working. I thjnk I just don’t have the time for this. I heard it can take months to a year for cats to be introduced and get along. My problem is I do t have months. I travel for work and have to take my cats. However , I can’t take two cats who are constantly hissing , growling and attacking. I decided tomorrow I’m calling the shelter to return him. He is the sweetest cat ever. He follows me around , licks me , followed the plumber who came and he rolls on his belly , purrs all the time. I just can’t get the two cats to get along before I have to head off to another state. The cat will make someone so happy. He is a very good cat. ! It is hard decision but no way I’m giving up my 15 year old and she has been hiding with him ( after their growling and attempted attacks ). I think if I didn’t travel for work and had months to try to work this out I would but I know I’m doing the right thing for him by giving him back so he can find a place that has more time to introduce him to other cats etc. I decided I’m not getting my 15 year old another friend. The introduction process is a very long and difficult one and she seemed to be ok without another cat. I think maybe I wanted one more then her. Either way good luck on your decision. I know you will do what’s best for your cats

 

[Alldara]

M mimi23 . Certainly you are so attentive to their stress that you've all been a bit stressed. Hopefully you all decompress tonight. Tomorrow is a brand new day.

I've never given my cats calming supplements so I can't attest to that.

You could try posting another post in nutrition on calming supplements to get reviews.

So they've been a bit pent up. I don't think you've gone as backwards as you fear.

Your old man cat was a bit overstimulated and took his frustration out on the little boy. Little boy thought they might be playing but then it was too serious so he went back to his safe area. That's some good communication. He didn't get riled up and have a full fight. Was he fully hiding when you went to get him or just went back to chill in his safe space?



Then the old man wasn't growling and hissing or anything when he followed you back up?


Do the babies wrestle with one another? Did you older cat wrestle with his former cat-mate?


Nobel didn't have someone to wrestle with from 6 months onward. So when he got to play with Magnus he often didn't know how to communicate well. He would charge and it would come off as aggressive. He would swat too hard at first and then get frustrated when Magnus didn't understand. He got the hang of it.

On the other hand, Calcifer is well cat-socialized but we do have to watch that he gets some extra play time during times or stress as he gets a bit much for the boys or too rough if he has pent up energy like that.

So even with well bonded cats there are hiccups and disagreements. Don't be discouraged. Try again tomorrow with the best attitude you can muster.

I'll be praying for something like this for you. But you have a strong start!

 

[Mimi73]

M mimi23 . Certainly you are so attentive to their stress that you've all been a bit stressed. Hopefully you all decompress tonight. Tomorrow is a brand new day.

I've never given my cats calming supplements so I can't attest to that.

You could try posting another post in nutrition on calming supplements to get reviews.

So they've been a bit pent up. I don't think you've gone as backwards as you fear.

Your old man cat was a bit overstimulated and took his frustration out on the little boy. Little boy thought they might be playing but then it was too serious so he went back to his safe area. That's some good communication. He didn't get riled up and have a full fight. Was he fully hiding when you went to get him or just went back to chill in his safe space?



Then the old man wasn't growling and hissing or anything when he followed you back up?


Do the babies wrestle with one another? Did you older cat wrestle with his former cat-mate?


Nobel didn't have someone to wrestle with from 6 months onward. So when he got to play with Magnus he often didn't know how to communicate well. He would charge and it would come off as aggressive. He would swat too hard at first and then get frustrated when Magnus didn't understand. He got the hang of it.

On the other hand, Calcifer is well cat-socialized but we do have to watch that he gets some extra play time during times or stress as he gets a bit much for the boys or too rough if he has pent up energy like that.

So even with well bonded cats there are hiccups and disagreements. Don't be discouraged. Try again tomorrow with the best attitude you can muster.

I'll be praying for something like this for you. But you have a strong start!

We are have definitely all been stressed and tired. I love my grandbabies so much and their parents needed a break so badly...but it's hard on all of us here for sure. Our old guy...his name is Wally, is definitely overstimulated. I'm hoping tomorrow will be a better day and i won't feel as anxious. His peeing on that toy last night really stressed me out and his not normal keyed up seeming behavior has thrown me.
When Wally started smacking at the baby boy, the baby looked slightly confused, stood up and batted back a few times then ran..and he ran right upstairs and went to Wally's room (which is my daughter's room), up to his food bowl. We joke and say he can be a little dense sometimes because he loves to follow Wally and look at him and lie near him and Wally doesn't want him to, but he keeps trying. so after getting smacked around by him, he runs up to Wally's space. Silly cat. So I went up and got him, Wally followed me, watched me pick him up and then followed me back downstairs to put the little guy back in his room with his sister. I'd read that if they fuss like that you should separate them...but maybe I shouldn't have. Wally has been a really chill cat since we got him but he's all up in our business starting last night, following us around and moving fast, not quite zoomies, but almost. Totally out of character for him. It has to be stress. No growling or hissing while he was following me. Wally has never had a housemate that I know of. The lady at the shelter said he was a neighborhood cat in her housing area and the people that she thought owned him moved away and left him and she noticed him getting skinnier and sleeping on the railroad tracks so she caught him and brought him to the shelter. That's about all I know about his past and that he didn't seem stressed about the cats in cages around him. Our other old sick Kitty died Sept 2022 and we adopted Wally from the shelter a few days before Christmas 2022. The kittens play together all the time, they love each other, snuggle together, play...and Wally watches them some. Friday morning before the grands came, I was playing with a wand toy with the babies and Wally was sitting near watching and I'd offer him the toy once in awhile and he seemed sort of interested but couldn't quite join in yet. Then everything went nuts that afternoon. :/ Usually the kids are just here for an afternoon or a short overnight...and he just stays upstairs or away from them. I think the edition of their dog this time, that stayed in the back room, but did bark...and just the bad day my grandson had Saturday might have just really been too much for him and you're right in that he needs time to decompress. Hopefully he won't continue to take it out on the kittens. He's been okay with us, but when he saw them tonight you could just see the energy build up in him.
The babies will be 6 months old tomorrow. We got them at about 4.5 months. They are super sweet but don't seem to understand that they should maybe let Wally lead. They also don't have a problem using any of the litter boxes in the house, even the one in my daughter's room that was Wally's first litter box...they run all over "his" space but he avoids their room and space all the time except for a couple times in the last week when he walked in there and sniffed around...and of course peed on the toy last night.
Should I just let them use all the places? I'm glad they are using the boxes and not the floor...but idk if it's a good thing?
I've read he should have his own space, but there is literally no way to keep the kittens out of there aside from locking Wally in his room and he hates that, he'll tear the carpet up scratching if you lock him in for long.
Sorry this is so long and disjointed. I'm really tired. lol Thanks for replying and walking me through all this.

 

[Alldara]

M Mimi73 If Wally is still using his boxes after they do, then I wouldn't fuss over it. Those are still mostly his.

Magnus used to wait and hold it until we let him out in the morning and then he'd want to use a particular box of Nobel's to poo in. I'd just clean it after for Nobel to have a fresh start. I knew Nobel was getting comfortable when he walked right in to Magnus's room and used the tiny kitten litter box .

Keep talking to Wally and narrating what the kittens are doing. Use consistent wording. That will help him to feel confident. Use those same words with Wally. Like when the kittens are away talk to him like, "Wally play." When you play and "pets" or "cuddle" when you do those things. Then he will understand when you say that one of the babies wants to play or cuddle him.

He might have some extra nerves about other cats as he was outside. He might have been bullied by other cats outside or chased off at some point. We will never know!

If you can take one of yours or your spouse's used shirts and pet the kittens with it and then pet Wally and then the kittens again, that will start to help build a family smell.

Another super weird trick I used was running a treat on Magnus's cheek and then giving it to Nobel. (I'd give Magnus a different treat of course.) Getting Magnus's smell associated with something high reward was good.

 

[Mimi73]

M Mimi73 If Wally is still using his boxes after they do, then I wouldn't fuss over it. Those are still mostly his.

Magnus used to wait and hold it until we let him out in the morning and then he'd want to use a particular box of Nobel's to poo in. I'd just clean it after for Nobel to have a fresh start. I knew Nobel was getting comfortable when he walked right in to Magnus's room and used the tiny kitten litter box .

Keep talking to Wally and narrating what the kittens are doing. Use consistent wording. That will help him to feel confident. Use those same words with Wally. Like when the kittens are away talk to him like, "Wally play." When you play and "pets" or "cuddle" when you do those things. Then he will understand when you say that one of the babies wants to play or cuddle him.

He might have some extra nerves about other cats as he was outside. He might have been bullied by other cats outside or chased off at some point. We will never know!

If you can take one of yours or your spouse's used shirts and pet the kittens with it and then pet Wally and then the kittens again, that will start to help build a family smell.

Another super weird trick I used was running a treat on Magnus's cheek and then giving it to Nobel. (I'd give Magnus a different treat of course.) Getting Magnus's smell associated with something high reward was good.

Those are all good ideas and I'll definitely try them! Anything to make this work.
This morning I got up, let the babies out just like I normally would and have been the last few weeks. Wally literally ran after them swatting. He wasn't hissing or growling, just moving a bit aggressively and swatting. He has never done that before. So I got their food together and separated them again. On my way back to the kitchen I saw the top to one of the feliway diffusers on the cabinet and remembered it had been out for several days. I then went to check the one upstairs and it was below the wick so it wasn't doing any good either...so the only one that was working was the one I had just put in a few days ago...I was waiting on the refills to come. So MAYBE those were doing more good than I thought they were and this is just the result of the calming affect being gone. I hope like crazy that that's all it is. It was just a very bad weekend for that to run out. I feel so bad for them all. I hate seeing Wally so stressed out when they are around, I hate hearing the babies holler at the door and beat on it wanting out of their room. They had pretty much free run of the house during the day except for a few hours here and there up until this weekend. So being locked back up away from everyone has to be confusing and hard. I just spent a couple hours in their room with them and they never got off my lap/chest.

I hope if we get the refills going in the diffuser things will settle back down and get back to how it was going before. It's hard not to get discouraged. I know that we have to figure out a way to help them get along or keep them separated from here out, or rehome the babies. That thought about kills me and I don't even want to think about that.

I just read an old post here that suggested using a drop of vanilla under the tail and chin of all the cats so they smell the same. I'm tempted to try that.

 

[Alldara]

M Mimi73 I know it's so hard
I'm not sure about vanilla. I've never used it, but the worn shirt trick is also doing the same accomplishment, making them smell alike. The pro people in the non-recognition aggression thread found with the worn shirt trick was that it was the smell they actually needed the cats to be used to, but also that you can't apply vanilla forever and may have some backtracking once you stop applying it.

Sounds like the diffusers were really helping!