Newby might just say it all... need some info. PLS - Long Train of Thought Post

[tonia newton]

Hello all!

I am new here and I am very interested in raw foods for my two cats. The older one (female, named Meekah) was born May 20th, 2003 (10 years old), weighs 20 pounds (Please read below), normal blood test result. The younger one (male, named Gizmo) was born Feb 12-15, 2012 (~1.5 years old), weighs 10 pounds. First I would like to share the behind the scenes to ensure understanding of how overwhelmed I am (maybe a bit of 'I have been there and there's hope). 

Meekah has been over weight since she was two. I have tried every cat food available to me costing anywhere between $30-80 dollars a month. She is now obesed. I am frustrated, really extremely frustred. for EIGHT years she's been on every dry food diet, pinching from amounts here and there. Always feeding twice a day. Bought an automatic food machine to despense food quatities during certain times, thinking it was me not calculating the food out right. she kept gaining. I was told to excersize her.... You have to come to my home, she don't excersize, she used to play fetch, but got all mad at me for having my daughter, hasn't done it since. I am drained and getting no where. Then the vets look when you walk in, because you know I just didn't do my job!

So after talking to a friend on Facebook about getting another bag of Blue, but really getting ticked on the prices and no results and feeding for a 10 pound cat, and really starting to think maybe chasing her with a vacuum would make her lazy butt move (I wouldn't dare, I said it, but I wouldn't dare, it was an exagration of 'what do I have to do to get her to move") she told me about canned food. I was told the myth, you all know it and are annoyed by it so I wont repeat it. Just note she's been on dry food for her entire life (except for the last 4 days, when I switched to canned, I am going to try it, I've tried everything else right?)

These past four days reading on Catinfo.org, and this forum and a few others I lost count. I mean loosing time and 3am is here, reading.  I am more ticked with the misinformation I was given in the past then I am about waisting money on the 'high end' dry food. Canned is better than any dry food? I caused my Meekah to become fat and unheathy and bought into this. Like I have said I have tried every dry food around Vet food, store food, unheard of food, high end food. Why would I not have done this sooner, just to give it a go! I am usually a think out side of the box person, never  thought it would be dry food, I was thinking I wasn't paying enough for it and feeling guilty about it, or that it was me!

4 days on canned and she's coming out more, she still doesn't move much, but she's coming out more. She usually just laid on my bedroom floor, or behind the couch, but would leave the room if someone came in (unless it was me, she's always only liked me). She is actually really taken to the canned better than Gizmo, which is surprising, she is a very picky eater, She only likes large kibble (think T/D Vet formula), so I was a bit worried because she can't go out on a hunger strike and loose weight too fast... Gizmo is forever getting into my food, I hate it! I thought no issues with him... Meekah will eat anything (although she doesn't like the flaky types, but will eat it) and Gizmo like Turkey and Giblets (whatever that is). 

I am a bit concerned for the two cats and wanted to know when anyone made the transition to canned, did they eat less? They used to get a cup each/day with dry food. Fancy Feast is a small container but Meekah will eat two cans a day, Gizmo will eat one can. I try to get him to eat more but he wont. They don't howl like they are hungry, and Meekah will eat what ever amount you give her, there is no full button on her. Did anyone else notice the change in amounts, It's hard to judge because I read the serving sizes on the cans are not a 'rule' as they increase the amounts so you pay more for food. And doing the oz per pounds... She'd be eating the case a day! There are no calorie counts on the cans, so I can't judge from that. Crazy! I don't want to mix canned and dry, I know if they hear/see/smell the dry they will not eat the moist , they will just pick out the kibble and leave the moist, I kid you not. Meekah 'spits' out the dark brown kibble from Blue - eats the rest. I will if there was a hunger strike, but not if they are eating moist, but I don't see that issue yet. Does the above sound like enough?

So I am trying to convert them to canned then to raw. wanting to use catinfo.org's reciepe. Live in Canada, can't find a grinder that is reasonable to get shipped here. That is not loud (I live in apartment, can't be loud). On a low budget, so I can't worry about it getting replaced all the time or parts because 'it doesn't do bone'. Looked up bone meal... Why can't we get bone meal? Apparently they stopped selling it here in 2008 or 2009 from the mad cow situation, but it's 2013, why can't I get bone meal? I searched here and read this thread http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261077/lets-talk-about-calcium-and-bones... Totally confused, probably because I am trying to make everything work, do calculations of costs/day/cat in my head all at once. But what is microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite, is this microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite http://well.ca/products/now-foods-bone-calcium_32452.html  that has Vit D and then there are amounts. How much to put in, not good with math and percentages, which is why I wanted a receipe LOL, Then theres egg shell might be better for my family for convience, but is it better?... Information over load I guess, I read and reread that thread I am still a dear in headlights. 

So my daughter, who is 6 says, why not just take the meat off the bone and chop up the meat mix in the liquid (she watched the youtube videos), with it and just give them the bones to chew on. That would be my end hope, that I can some how mix the meat with the suppliments, portion it out, and give a bone (how funny, like a dog), during the last meal and be done, would that work? how would you get the meat to 'soak' up the suppliments evenly and portion... *sigh

As for subliments: So for from well.ca (free shipping in Canada and can do online dept) I can get
Holista Fish oil, 120 capsules, 1000mg for $16.99
Jameson Vit E, 120 capsules, 400 IU, for $19.99
Webber B50, 60 capsules, 50g, for $11.99
Now Taurine, 250 capsules, 1000mg for $24.22
Just have to add liver, 'bone and portion 

Does that sound like good 

Thank you for reading and for any help/suggestions offered.

 

[furmonster mom]

Okay.... breeeeeaaathe

Yes, it can seem sooo overwhelming at first.  Breeeeeeaaaathe.

We've all been there.  The guilt, the anger, the frustration.  Yes indeedy.  Breeeeeeaaathe.

You are actually in a good place.  You've done a lot of reading, and come to some educated conclusions.  That's great.  Don't be so hard on yourself for not being able to absorb everything all at once.  It seriously took me several months to finally feel comfortable with the whole concept and implementation.

One thing at a time.

You are trying to transition to canned food before jumping to raw, right?  That's fine.  Transitioning takes time.  It might be a bit scary at first, but give them time to settle into the idea that wet food is good food.  In the meantime, use this transitional period to come up with a plan.

If you are concerned about investing in a grinder, you might want to look into the Frankenprey style of feeding.  I'll admit, I'm biased, as it's the style I settled on, myself.  I have never owned a meat grinder, ever.  I do everything with knife, scissors, cutting board, and my FoodSaver.  I feed 4 cats and 1 dog at an average cost of about 3.75 a day.  I feed chicken, pork, beef, lamb, for meats/bones (including pork & beef heart); and kidney, liver, spleen & brain for other organs.

Roughly, my menu looks something like this...

For an 8 day rotation:

Chicken w/bones + heart + pork liver

Pork + pork kidney

Chicken w/bones + heart + beef liver

Beef + pork spleen

Chicken w/bones + heart + pork liver

Pork + beef kidney

Chicken w/bones + heart + beef liver

Lamb + pork brain

Now, every 2-3 days I add some fish oil capsules, and Vit. E.  My older kitty and the dog get some extra glucosamine.  The dog also gets an extra half of multivitamin.  Occasionally I'll also toss in some egg yolk, a dollop of yogurt, or other appropriate treats as well.  Some folks even like to give crickets as occasional meals/treats.

You may want to use different meat sources... which is the great thing about rawfeeding, it's very flexible once you get the hang of it.  Look at what you can get at Costco, or a local butcher's store.  Look into farmer's markets, or cultural markets (asian/mexican) if there are any nearby.

Think in terms of balancing over the course of a week, not every single day.  The overall balance should be approximately 80% meat (incld. heart meat), 10% bone, 5% liver, 5% other secreting organ.

The meal math is based on your animal's ideal weight (about 3% per day), but since you have one that is overweight you may want to start where she's at and slowly decrease after she's adjusted to the new foods.

Breeeeeeeeaaaathe!

This will take time.

Don't beat yourself up over it.  

One step at a time.

There are lots of folks here that can help you through it. 

ETA:

Don't mean to ovewhelm you further, but CatCentric.org is also a great source for information.  Take your time with it all.  Try not to skim too quickly.  Even just take an article a day if you need to. 

 

[tonia newton]

Thank you so much. i was starting to think that no one would answer, because I was asking questions that I could search for. no offense intended, this seems like a great forum, however I've been on some that except you to google and search first prior to posting. Which was why I became overwhelmed with every turn coming to a dead end. So it's become a habit to search first, ask later. Plus a lot of things I have not been able to get or find. I need to start getting the supplements now because of the low budget I have. So I am more concerned with that right now. 

I am also a planning type of person, plus I like to read . I know it will take a while before they are on wet food. just the thought of  the transition from canned to raw is got me stumped. Also the fear of not doing something right and making them sick (low in something like calcium for an example). I mean they are eating a low end can food, but better than high end dry they are used too. They are not starving, as you said I am trying to take this time to figure out my course of action. We are getting somewhere, right?


How do you ensure everyone is getting everything? I am sure your pets are, so how do you do it? Do you weigh things? Any good video on youtube (I am going there next, just in the middle of waiting for water to boil for dinner on an old stove... takes so long so I thought I would reply). Frankinprey? Who named it that? After doing my post I ran into that term and nearly fell on the floor! Funniest thing ever, I guess I need to get out more

If you don't mind. how did you, if you did transition from dry to FRANKENPREY LOL I am thinking Meekah would be all "what the... she's gone nuts" on me and wont eat the bone. What do I do then? Should I in a month give them some? I bought my daughter and I some Chicken breasts with bone, could I cut some out prior to cooking and give them to 'try'? 

Ok off to youtube. Thank you. I know I need to breathe. I forget that. 
 

 

[Willowy]

Frankenprey is called that because you're basically trying to piece together a whole prey animal from parts, like Frankenstein's monster :lol3:.

Yep, for now definitely offer real meat as often as possible. . .if it's less than 15% of their diet you don't have to worry about balancing it. But a lot of commercial-food-fed cats won't recognize raw meat as food so it needs to be presented as a meal frequently so they get the idea that it's edible. Cook it if you have to, at first, then sort of half-cook it, etc. Most cats will eat cooked meat, IME.

 

[ldg]

Edited to add: the "yeah" was to Furmonster Mom's post, but it applies to Willowy's too! :lol3:


There is no rush. You've just had the rug pulled out from under you, and you're bruised and sore. Be kind to yourself right now! :heart2:

I remember that "lightbulb" moment when I couldn't stand the thought of what I'd been feeding my cats. Like you, I normally think outside the box. And on top of it all, I perform research for a living. I research everything. So why did I never research cat nutrition? EVER? Just trusted my vet. And it's not like I just trust my doctor - at all. I have a husband with a rare disease, and in the end, I'm the one that diagnosed it, and I'm the one that found what help he's had.... not seven years of neurologists. So why did I place so much trust in the vet?

Who knows. But what's done is done, and the ONLY thing to do, as Furmonster Mom puts it SO well, is step back, take a deep breath (a few of them!) and look forward! :heart2:

The transition to canned alone is a big step.

The best place to start, IMO, is a journal of what you're feeding, how much, when, and how much they weigh. I'd be weighing them at least twice a week for now.

I have a 14 pound cat that was eating the same amount of food as my 7 pound cat, and not losing weight on it. It was such a small amount of food, we simply couldn't reduce the amount any further. So cats, just like people, have different metabolisms. It's not likely, but it's possible, that your Gizmo just needs the one can. :dk: The only way to know is to keep track of his weight.

Of course, the problem may be the change in feeding style. My cats were free fed dry food. I had already incorporated one - then two - meals of wet food a day, but I care for a colony of feral cats, and I never paid attention to how much food anyone ate. I put out 1/4 of a 5.5 ounce can - if they finished it, great. If not, the ferals got the leftovers.

So when I picked up the dry food, I had a problem. They were used to grazing all day, and not eating enough at meals. I had to feed them many small meals throughout the day at first. I'm lucky I work from home. I slowly worked them down to three meals a day, gradually upping the amount of wet food at each meal. I feed them the equivalent of before work, after work, and just before bed.

So for your Gizmo, maybe offer him more meals? Is that an option? Though in the meantime, keeping track of his weight will help you know whether or not he needs more food. And if upping the number of meals you offer him doesn't help, then try "toppers." This will likely be something you need to get them eating raw at times anyway. For my older kitties, it sure was. I keep on hand freeze dried chicken liver, freeze dried beef liver, freeze dried chicken breast... you can always try tuna juice or bonito flakes. The idea is to just provide a "dusting" or a "drizzle" over the top, to change the smell to get them (him) to dig in. :nod: If you give them any treats, get a pill crusher, and crush them up and sprinkle them over the top.

As to the raw, it's safe to feed up to 15% of their diet unbalanced. If you feed 3 meals a day, that's 21 meals a week; that means that you can feed 3 meals a week that aren't balanced. But it doesn't even need to be a meal (just for your Meekah, reduce the amount of any meal by the amount of raw meat you've given her). Just slice off a bit of whatever you were going to make for dinner (assuming you're not vegan or vegetarian) before you've seasoned and cooked it, and offer it to them. See if they like it, what they like, how they handle it (one of my cats threw up red meats immediately upon ingesting them. We're 1.5 years into raw feeding now, and he can still only have a meal that is 50% red meat / 50% poultry), etc.


I think figuring how much food they need to eat to maintain their weight is the first step. :nod:

It's a whole lot easier if you do things one step at a time!

Once you know how much canned it takes to keep them stable, and they're eating that, you can assume it will take less raw food. Most of my cats were eating about one 5.5 ounce can of food a day. On raw, those cats need 4.5 ounces or less. But doing this step first will give you time to think about how you want to proceed. You can absorb some of that information - offer them raw meat treats, a piece of a chicken wing - and based on them and your schedule and preferences, take your time to decide whether you'd rather do prey model raw or make ground food.

FYI, I mix styles of feeding. I don't own a grinder. But I buy whole ground animal from a U.S. supplier, so I feed some meals that are ground with bone ground-in. I don't know if it fits into your budget, but you've got the same thing up there - Carnivora. NO clue if it's available where you are locally or not, or how much it would cost to have it shipped to you from the company. But just putting a thought out there. Many people feed raw by feeding whole ground animal and adding a supplement made to balance it. TCFeline is available in Canada, and they have vitamin mixes that are meant for meat/bone/organ mixes.

In fact, that's something else to consider. I don't know if they send samples or not, but they also make a supplement that makes just meat complete. That's another transition tool: feed just meat with the supplement while you work on getting them eating their liver & kidney, etc. (if you decide you want to do prey model raw). Or - just feed the meat with the supplement. I have one cat that does NOT like liver or kidney. I have several that don't like liver, so I replace it with freeze dried liver, but he doesn't eat much of that. So he basically eats raw meat with the supplement that makes just meat complete. I use Wysong Call of the Wild, which I know can be shipped to Canada. It's expensive. I don't know how it compares to TCFeline, which I've never used. He does eat some of the ground whole animal, and he'll occasionally eat a bone-in meal. But as I can use the supplement to make individual meals complete, I don't have to worry about getting organs into him. (If he would eat ground raw at every meal, I'd do that. But he won't. :lol3: ).

So... to sum it all up. I think your best first investment is a kitchen scale. Whether or not you'll end up feeding ground or prey model, you'll need one. I'd keep a journal of what they're eating, how much at each meal, and I'd weigh them regularly (not on the kitchen scale LOL, that's for food - and basically so you can weigh the raw "treats" you're giving them, so you can adjust the amount of canned food you give Meekah at the next meal) - and figure out the correct amount of food to keep Gizmo's weight stable, and Meekah losing a safe amount of weight each week (at 20 pounds, that's no more than 6 ounces a week at a 2% weight loss rate).

I'd offer Gizmo food more often, and try enticements (assuming he does need to eat more than 3 ounces of canned food a day).

I'd offer them treats of raw meat - see what happens. Offer them the smaller bone of a chicken wing, etc.

And while you're doing that, take your time to learn more, and make decisions when you're comfortable. And don't forget - you can always change your mind and your strategy. There is no "right" or "wrong," just what works for you and your cats, and there's no rush in arriving at a goal. :heart2:

Site links:

http://tcfeline.com/

http://www.carnivora.ca/index.cfm

http://www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php (I think you can order it from Amazon and have it shipped to Canada - maybe it is from the Wysong site. Either way, you can call them - if you're interested - and see if they'll ship a sample).

 

[ldg]

In answer to your follow-up question, this is a long read, so you can skip through the thread to read just Carolina's posts. But she transitioned directly from kibble to raw for one of her cats - who HATED raw and took forever to even just taste it. She also had an obese kitty with IBD, Bugsy. He started at.. 19 pounds? Went up to a little over 20? And is now.. 13? 14? 1.5 years later. :nod:

You say you like to read - this may challenge that! :lol3: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...lucky-bugsy-and-hope-to-raw-challenges-galore

 

[ldg]

Oh - and how to make sure everyone is getting everything? I have 8 cats. I weigh everything and police them while they eat. No one eats out of anything other than their own bowl. When we were first transitioning, I had to use a LOT of toppers, and there was a fair amount of vomiting. That just meant I needed to slow things down. :nod:

But nutritional deficiencies take time to develop, so they don't need to love everything overnight. And they were getting some canned or some commercial ground during the process. There's nothing wrong with slowing down, backing up, starting over.... And ultimately, their diet doesn't need to be 100% raw either. I have one cat that I have to at times feed canned food. It's not the end of the world.

 

[tonia newton]

Thanks for the posts, let me read the thread. and I will get back to you all. 

 

[tonia newton]

OH I can't believe I forgot! Meekah is Turkish Angora and Persian. Giz I have no idea. His mother was a rescue and my friend didn't know she was pregnant when they got her. So out came gizmo and 5 other litter mates. He's dark grey and white though. Small and long. Both fixed and NOT declawed. still reading but I thought that might help for some reason. Persians are known for weight issues *eyes roll. 

 

[tonia newton]

Oh - and how to make sure everyone is getting everything? I have 8 cats. I weigh everything and police them while they eat. No one eats out of anything other than their own bowl. When we were first transitioning, I had to use a LOT of toppers, and there was a fair amount of vomiting. That just meant I needed to slow things down.

But nutritional deficiencies take time to develop, so they don't need to love everything overnight.

And they were getting some canned or some commercial ground during the process. There's nothing wrong with slowing down, backing up, starting over.... And ultimately, their diet doesn't need to be 100% raw either. I have one cat that I have to at times feed canned food. It's not the end of the world.

That's what I have to do with Meekah, like I've said there is no off button with her. Looks like the timed feedings work to my favor though.

In answer to your follow-up question, this is a long read, so you can skip through the thread to read just Carolina's posts. But she transitioned directly from kibble to raw for one of her cats - who HATED raw and took forever to even just taste it. She also had an obese kitty with IBD, Bugsy. He started at.. 19 pounds? Went up to a little over 20? And is now.. 13? 14? 1.5 years later.

You say you like to read - this may challenge that!

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...lucky-bugsy-and-hope-to-raw-challenges-galore

Unfortunately I was trying to get to the 3rd page and my computer gave me a malware message??? No clue why so I cant continue. Wont go to the fourth either... I was enjoying it. That feeding box is awesome!

Edited to add: the "yeah" was to Furmonster Mom's post, but it applies to Willowy's too!

There is no rush. You've just had the rug pulled out from under you, and you're bruised and sore. Be kind to yourself right now!

I remember that "lightbulb" moment when I couldn't stand the thought of what I'd been feeding my cats. Like you, I normally think outside the box. And on top of it all, I perform research for a living. I research everything. So why did I never research cat nutrition? EVER? Just trusted my vet. And it's not like I just trust my doctor - at all. I have a husband with a rare disease, and in the end, I'm the one that diagnosed it, and I'm the one that found what help he's had.... not seven years of neurologists. So why did I place so much trust in the vet?

 

[aprilprey]

 I have 8 cats. I weigh everything and police them while they eat. No one eats out of anything other than their own bowl.

You are Black Belt Cat Master!

 

[tonia newton]

 I have 8 cats. I weigh everything and police them while they eat. No one eats out of anything other than their own bowl.

You are Black Belt Cat Master!

I was thinking the same. I watch the cats, but then my daughter distracts me LOL. I came back and Meekah is eating Giz's food LOL. She did it again today. 

Weighed Giz, he's still the same. Meekah is moody today so I will give her a bit. I've been putting oil on her fur to get some matts out. She is mad at me now. If I could only find a steel cat comb things would be good in that department. I had one, but moved and don't know where it went. You know I will buy another one and find the old one. She doesn't like the paddle brush with the thin bristles. 

Giz still hasn't eaten much today. But he's not hungry. maybe the Canned food is filling him up more? 

But Meekah is coming out more she hung out most of the day yesterday in my daughter's room while she played. Mother hen hasn 't done that since my daughter was 18 months old. 

 

[ldg]

It's good Giz still weighs the same. I'd keep an eye on it for a few more weeks before I decided he doesn't need more food. 3 ounces is very little for a 10 pound cat!

To weigh with a human scale, it's best to stand on it, note your weight, then hold the cat while standing on it, and then subtract your weight from it. It's more accurate than trying to put the cat directly on the scale.

The only companies I know that have supplements that make just meat complete and balanced are Wysong (Call of the Wild) and one of the TCFeline supplements.

I use Call of the Wild with Lazlo at most meals. But I also give him meals with ground bone in the them four times a week, and I offer him a bone-in meal once a week.

Many people feed canned food and give their cats gizzards or chicken wings as treats for dental health. If you keep the "unbalanced" portion of food to 15% or less of the diet (whether it has bones or not), there shouldn't be problems.

And yes, for testing the waters with meat treats, chicken breast, chicken thigh, pork, beef - whatever! A little taste, see how it goes! If they like the little taste, offer a little more.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Just as an FYI, I have an overweight cat (he's lost 2 lbs since we converted from free fed kibble to canned to raw, but he's still a bit overweight), who only gets fed 1.5% of his body weight on raw.  Above Furmonster Mom said the average meal is based on 3%.  So, just wanted to point out that if Meekah is to lose weight, you probably won't want to feed her 3%.  But also, as you know,you don't want her to lose too quickly. 

Someone, you've got to monitor her so she doesn't get to Gizmo's bowl.  Can you put his bowl up on a counter or tabletop or somewhere she can't jump?  Or assign your daughter to watch his bowl, or HER, like a hawk until meal time as concluded

.  If that doesn't happen, then she isn't going to lose weight.  I have to do this with Darko, because he scarfs down his food, then tries to steal from anyone else who isn't finished.  So I feed the slowest eater first,up on the counter,  but keep telling Darko his is coming and talking to him so he stays away from her, then once he's finished I watch him and stand in from of the countertop between  him and Callie until she walks away, then I swoop up her bowl before anyone has a chance to take a lick at what might be in there.  It's a chore, but has to be done...3 times a day

. 

BTW, one way I get my piglet moving is to toss him his "treats".  He LOVES running after them.  I use freeze dried raw, or else freeze dried 100% meats (Wholelife or Purebites) and break them into teeny pieces so he gets quite a few times of running after them.  Then I toss them as far as I can.  He looks like he's playing in the outfield at a baseball game

.  He jumps up trying to catch them (and sometimes he does, in his little mitt of a paw!), scurries after them and catches them right before they slide under a door, bats them all over, catches them before they slide under the couch (it helps that we have tile floors so they slide well).  Anyway, he really gets his exercise, and as I said, he LOVES this game

. They all do, actually

So...not sure I understand what kind of kitchen scale you have.  Can you describe it a little more? 

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Here's a meat source that another Canadian member just posted about:   http://www.baileyblu.com/raw/

 

[furmonster mom]

Originally Posted by mrsgreenjeens  

  Above Furmonster Mom said the average meal is based on 3%.  So, just wanted to point out that if Meekah is to lose weight, you probably won't want to feed her 3%.  But also, as you know,you don't want her to lose too quickly. 
  ...

Please don't take my words out of context.

What I said was....

The meal math is based on your animal's ideal weight (about 3% per day), but since you have one that is overweight you may want to start where she's at and slowly decrease after she's adjusted to the new foods.

The reason I suggested waiting to decrease the meal until after the cat has adjusted is because the cat will most likely loose weight not only during the transition period, but just being on the raw diet.  You want to wait until the cat is at a stable baseline, or you will run the risk of her losing weight too quickly.  If, after being on a stable diet for a few weeks, the cat is still gaining weight, then yes, start slowly decreasing meal amount.

 

[tonia newton]

It's good Giz still weighs the same. I'd keep an eye on it for a few more weeks before I decided he doesn't need more food. 3 ounces is very little for a 10 pound cat!

Just as an FYI, I have an overweight cat (he's lost 2 lbs since we converted from free fed kibble to canned to raw, but he's still a bit overweight), who only gets fed 1.5% of his body weight on raw.  Above Furmonster Mom said the average meal is based on 3%.  So, just wanted to point out that if Meekah is to lose weight, you probably won't want to feed her 3%.  But also, as you know,you don't want her to lose too quickly. 

Someone, you've got to monitor her so she doesn't get to Gizmo's bowl.  Can you put his bowl up on a counter or tabletop or somewhere she can't jump?  Or assign your daughter to watch his bowl, or HER, like a hawk until meal time as concluded

.  If that doesn't happen, then she isn't going to lose weight.  I have to do this with Darko, because he scarfs down his food, then tries to steal from anyone else who isn't finished.  So I feed the slowest eater first,up on the counter,  but keep telling Darko his is coming and talking to him so he stays away from her, then once he's finished I watch him and stand in from of the countertop between  him and Callie until she walks away, then I swoop up her bowl before anyone has a chance to take a lick at what might be in there.  It's a chore, but has to be done...3 times a day

. 

To be honest I really wasn't concerned with her eating from his bowl, considering I am afraid they are not getting enough from what they are eating... I guess this is a bad mistake? So far day 5 and I can actually MOVE around my house without someone yelling or screeching at me. It's nice. They both seem full/ satisfied. I can get up and walk around and Meekah is not under my feet and Giz is not licking crumbs off my floor or stealing food from my plate. I can clean their bowls and they look up and nothing! It's actually nice. Yes, it's puzzling me about the amounts not being simular. But I guess that is what is done. Maybe Giz just needs 1 can? Meekah's starting point mean 2.5 can? I do end up throwing a half a can away. I thought I was figuring out where her starting point was? 

Giz wont eat on the counter, tried. He like Meekah, Meekah could care less about him, be he eats when she does and on the floor with her. Been like that since I brought him home. When I leave it up on the counter, he will lick it, but then jump down and try to eat with Meekah, She will hiss at him, he will back off, go to his spot and yell at me. LOL Demanding LOL

BTW, one way I get my piglet moving is to toss him his "treats".  He LOVES running after them.  I use freeze dried raw, or else freeze dried 100% meats (Wholelife or Purebites) and break them into teeny pieces so he gets quite a few times of running after them.  Then I toss them as far as I can.  He looks like he's playing in the outfield at a baseball game

.  He jumps up trying to catch them (and sometimes he does, in his little mitt of a paw!), scurries after them and catches them right before they slide under a door, bats them all over, catches them before they slide under the couch (it helps that we have tile floors so they slide well).  Anyway, he really gets his exercise, and as I said, he LOVES this game

. They all do, actually

So...not sure I understand what kind of kitchen scale you have.  Can you describe it a little more? 

Here's a meat source that another Canadian member just posted about:   http://www.baileyblu.com/raw/

Thank you, I was more looking for the suppliment packages, but that's ok I already figured out that doing my own will be better if I can get the bone thing down right. There's a lot in the premade subliments that I think would be no different then buying commercial. But that's me.

Originally Posted by mrsgreenjeens  

  Above Furmonster Mom said the average meal is based on 3%.  So, just wanted to point out that if Meekah is to lose weight, you probably won't want to feed her 3%.  But also, as you know,you don't want her to lose too quickly. 
  ...

Please don't take my words out of context.

What I said was....

The meal math is based on your animal's ideal weight (about 3% per day), but since you have one that is overweight you may want to start where she's at and slowly decrease after she's adjusted to the new foods.

The reason I suggested waiting to decrease the meal until after the cat has adjusted is because the cat will most likely loose weight not only during the transition period, but just being on the raw diet.  You want to wait until the cat is at a stable baseline, or you will run the risk of her losing weight too quickly.  If, after being on a stable diet for a few weeks, the cat is still gaining weight, then yes, start slowly decreasing meal amount.

Gotcha, I understand both sides though. I am glad both were presented to me. Glad you clarified, but I get what you both are suggesting and will keep both in my mind. 

today is good, they actually ate breakfast the entire can, guess Giz likes Grill? What is that? I think I am going to have a cat that prefers the organs and the other that likes the chicken. My daughter is sorta sad, for a few years she fed them (scooped out the food into bowls), not she can't open the cans. It was a way that I could teach Meekah to respect her. Meekah is still very indifferent with my daughter. What a suck! So I open the cans for my daughter, and she puts them on the plate, then tells me they smell LOL But everything was cleaned off. Cats still seem fine, calmer now though, both are sleeping beside me on the couch right now. I am moving freely in my home and not getting tripped! I can't believe that, Even my daughter noticed Meekah not bellowing. Should have done this sooner I think.