Newborn kittens and unfriendly mom under my porch. Leave them there or bring them inside?

[Russianmix]

It's a long story how we got to here. If you look at my previous thread, we adopted a barn cat who we thought was pregnant; turned out to be pyometra. We managed to spay her and she's been a happy, healthy indoor cat ever since. She has a daughter kitty from a previous litter, about a year old, who we've been feeding outside. She's not friendly, unfortunately. She's somewhat comfortable with our presence, but never lets us close enough to touch her. We have a whole village of insulated cat shelters under our porch, and she just gave birth to a litter of kittens in one of them.

I think I know the basics of what I should do here; just keep feeding mom and leave the kittens be until they're 2 weeks old, then try to handle them as long as mom doesn't mind? My big question is whether we should try to bring them inside or not. We leave out in the country, I've heard coyotes twice in the past 6 months but never have seen their tracks on my property. Only other concern I can think of would be a tomcat, possibly the dad; there's one that we've seen wandering over for food occasionally. I've heard they can kill kittens, and I'm not positive if he's the dad or not.

It would be easy enough to carry the cat shelter along with the kittens inside, but mom cat I doubt will be cool with this, and probably will jump out and be pissed. Don't know, anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Sarthur2]

Inside is always ideal, but not if mom won’t go. Are they sheltered enough that a coyote or tom cat would have difficulty getting to them?

The other reason to bring them in along with mom would be to further socialize mom and get her spayed when this litter weans. If not, she’ll have litter after litter all summer long.

If she just had the kittens you can perhaps wait a day or two while she settles into nursing. Many times a mom will follow her kittens being moved, or is there a way to close up the shelter just long enough to get mom inside with her kittens and into a private area of the house?

 

[StefanZ]

I want to add, 2 weeks not touching is no holy rule as such. All breeders and most rescuers do weight them every day, for example...
But its practical with a protective, high strung momma, not to touch them in the beginning, till she cools down some, and allows you to handle them...

Also, its important to handle them when they are 2+ weeks, to get them socialized...

Re toms: Their own dad is probably not very dangerous, he mated momma, so he is more or less friendly to her... And so, probably wont be mean to her kittens... (I have read, the praxis of females to be mated by all present males is a Natures trick; this way these males wont be a danger to her kittens... They did mated, so the kittens are potentially theirs; and thus, they wont touch the kittens, and perhaps even - defend them if necessary).

The real danger are new toms from outside, foreigners, whom hope to create their own revire...

 

[Russianmix]

I haven't seen any tomcats aside from the one. We've lived here for 7 months, and it's been the same cats the whole time.

Latest news is that mom cat moved 3 out of 4 of the kittens around the side of the house behind a big patch of plants. It's been about 2 hours and she hasn't come back for the last one. Any ideas what to do? We have formula and everything ready if we need to try to take care of any of them, but I'm wondering how long I should wait before taking it, and whether I should try moving the kitten to mom's new spot instead...

I also don't think there's any way to get mom inside without using a hav a heart trap, unfortunately. She growls whenever we get close, and I suspect she may have moved because we bugged her too much. We mentioned the situation to a vet tech, and they think there's a risk of her failing to take care of her kittens due to stress, even if we do bring her in.

 

[Sarthur2]

Definitely take the other kitten to where mom moved them.

 

[Russianmix]

Done. I'll keep you updated, thanks for the tips

 

[Russianmix]

Here they are:

 

[Sarthur2]

Can you make a shelter with an open side for them so they are not so exposed to predators and weather?

R Russianmix

 

[Russianmix]

Can you make a shelter with an open side for them so they are not so exposed to predators and weather?

R Russianmix

They have 4 of them under the porch. I wish she'd use one of them. I guess I can move one to her new area and hope she takes them in?

 

[Russianmix]

Inside is always ideal, but not if mom won’t go. Are they sheltered enough that a coyote or tom cat would have difficulty getting to them?

The other reason to bring them in along with mom would be to further socialize mom and get her spayed when this litter weans. If not, she’ll have litter after litter all summer long.

If she just had the kittens you can perhaps wait a day or two while she settles into nursing. Many times a mom will follow her kittens being moved, or is there a way to close up the shelter just long enough to get mom inside with her kittens and into a private area of the house?

0] R Russianmix [/USER]
[/QUOTE]

OK, everyone is inside now. Caught mom cat in a trap, and brought her and all 4 kittens into my basement. Something I didn't foresee (...I know, I should have. She seemed ok in the trap, wasn't snarling or making a big deal out of it. I realize now I should have put them in a crate or a smaller space...) was her scrambling up the wall and hiding by the basement ceiling joists. She's been up there about an hour and a half now. I put her kittens in a heated bed and moved them in view of mom cat's hiding spot, along with food and water. Just hoping she comes down and takes care of them soon.

 

[StefanZ]

0] R Russianmix [/USER]

OK, everyone is inside now. Caught mom cat in a trap, and brought her and all 4 kittens into my basement. Something I didn't foresee (...I know, I should have. She seemed ok in the trap, wasn't snarling or making a big deal out of it. I realize now I should have put them in a crate or a smaller space...) was her scrambling up the wall and hiding by the basement ceiling joists. She's been up there about an hour and a half now. I put her kittens in a heated bed and moved them in view of mom cat's hiding spot, along with food and water. Just hoping she comes down and takes care of them soon.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, she will "land" soon enough, when she realizes nobody is really threating her nor her kittens... And she knows you are docile and trying to be helpful... When she lands - she will cooperate...

Cat moms are similiar to human moms: the well fare of her childrens is more important than "freedom".

Of course, no iron clad rule.... But its the common happenings...

Let her have somewhere she can hide legally; a carrier, or a sideturned box, with something soft inside to lie on...

You can try to have a calming, relaxing music on... NOT human voices.
When you are in there, perhaps to attend the kittens or change food and litter, talk with a friendly soft voice, make friendly noises... Sing some if you can. Alike a friendly tom would do.
Yawn a lot, strech on yourself. It friendly greetings in cat language...
Dont look direclty on her, look on her shoulder.... Blink slowly...

 

[Sarthur2]

Has mom joined her kittens now?

 

[Russianmix]

Has mom joined her kittens now?

Ugh. Yes. But I feel like I've totally bungled this whole situation.

She still hadn't come down after 4 hours. So I got her kittens all set up in a crate, with food, water and a litter box ready for mom too. I put on a coat and some gloves and tried to nab mom and put her in the crate...and got completely scratched and bitten up. Went to the ER for antibiotics because some looked deep. It's been about 2 hours since then and just got home to check on them - kittens are nursing, but they're squealing a bit, and I can't tell if mom has eaten or drank. The whole grabbing situation stressed her out, and I'm worried I hurt her or something from pulling on her. I feel like a total idiot.

 

[Russianmix]

Some good news finally. My girlfriend is awesome, and managed to get mom to eat lots of food right out of her hand. Everyone is snuggled up in a much better mood now.

 

[StefanZ]

Ouch.... As said, no force, not even with gloves on... She must land and come down by herself.

Luck you have both an ER doc, and a cat wise girlfriend...

 

[Sarthur2]

Poor thing was very frightened. Let’s hope your girlfriend can continue to keep mom calm and to become less feral.

So sorry about the bites. Good you got meds.

Is the crate a good size for mom to stretch out for nursing? They are much safer now!