New To Homemade Diets And Need Advice On Recipes I've Been Given

[purplesnurple]

This year my 10 year old cat was referred to nutritionists and internal medicine specialists because of her increasing frequency of diarrhea and vomiting. She is suspected of having IBD and very early renal disease, and over the last few months we worked on ruling out a protein sensitivity. She has had overall health improvements on the new diet and her blood work is improving. She is obviously feeling a lot better and has much more energy. Originally she ate the chicken diet, but we used a pork loin diet to rule out sensitivity to chicken under the guidance of the internist (it was the only novel protein we could easily source that we knew she hasn't been exposed to). She had the same number of flare ups on pork as she did on chicken so now the internist has told me to feed her whichever recipe I want since it is likely IBD and not a protein sensitivity. That's the question I have, is chicken or pork loin a better protein for cats in her circumstances? Any advice between the 2 recipes I've been given and the recommendations? This is all new to me and a bit overwhelming.

I used organic boneless skinless chicken breast and lean center cut pork loin from good sources.

The nutritionist recommendations were:

Maia is overweight with a body condition score (BCS) of 6/9. Normally, an ideal BCS is a 4/9-5/9. Renal and cardiac disease can potentially lead to cachexia; therefore, we recommend Maia maintain her current weight and body condition score of 6/9. We calculate Maia’ daily energy requirements to be 300 kcals.
Water: Water is the most important nutrient and is of particular significance. Dehydration
places unnecessary stress on the kidneys. Providing multiple sources of fresh drinking water,
adding water to dry kibble, and feeding a high moisture (65-80% water) homemade diet may help encourage water consumption and maintain hydration.
Protein: Dietary protein is important for maintaining lean muscle mass along with many other processes in the body. However, excess protein should be avoided in the face of early renal disease. Feeding an adequate, but not excessive protein diet (14g/day per the National
Research Council (NRC) daily protein requirement) is recommended. Therefore, the diet should contain 65-82g crude protein/1000kcal. Normally when treating IBD, a moderate novel (protein source Maia has not been exposed to) or hydrolyzed (broken down protein) protein diet is recommended to reduce the risk of an inappropriate response by the immune system.
Fat: Maia has a good appetite. Lower fat diets are generally lower in energy density. The lower the energy density the higher volume of food Maia can consume while restricting calories, thereby, promoting satiety. We recommend feeding a low to moderate fat (30-50 g/1000 kcal ME) diet.
Phosphorous: Reduced dietary phosphorous has been proven to be helpful in delaying the
progression of renal disease. Although Maia may have signs of early kidney disease via
ultrasound, her renal values are within normal limits; therefore, Maia should consume a low
phosphorous diet that meets her phosphorous requirement (0.1-0.2g/day). We recommend
Maia’s diet contain 0.4-1.3g phosphorous/1000 kcal ME.
Omega-3 fatty Acids: The long-chain omega three fatty acids EPA and DHA may have benefits in delaying progression of renal disease in cats, similar to their benefits in other species. We recommend feeding a diet containing fish oil (275 – 550 mg DHA + EPA/day).

Her 2 current recipes:

Chicken:
Chicken Breast, no skin or bone, oven baked, chopped 3/4 cups (105g)
Sweet Potato, peeled, boiled, drained 3/4 medium sweet potato (105g)
Peanut oil 1/2 teaspoons
Nordic Naturals Omega-3 Pet Liquid 1/2 teaspoons
Balance IT® Feline K 1 yellow scoop (3.6g)
The recipe provides 307kcal ME, 86grams (g) protein/1000 kcal ME, 43g fat/1000 kcal ME, 0.9g phosphorus/1000 kcal ME (0.3g/day), 561g EPA+DHA, and an omega-6mega-3 ratio of 4.1, as formulated above.

Pork:
Pork loin, broiled 2-3/4 ounces (78 g)
Sweet Potato, peeled, boiled, drained 3/4 medium sweet potato (105 g)
Peanut oil 1/4 teaspoons
Nordic Naturals Omega-3 Pet Liquid 1/2 teaspoons
Balance IT® Feline K 1 yellow scoop (3.6 g)
The recipe provides 300 kcal ME, 75 grams (g) protein/1000 kcal ME, 48 g fat/1000 kcal ME, 0.8g phosphorus/1000 kcal ME (0.2 g/day), 552g EPA+DHA, and an omega-6mega-3 ratio of 2.3, as formulated above.

 

[maureen brad]

I am not a veterinary nutritionist but, as I understand it cats do have a moderate fat requirement. I also wonder why the sweet potatoes? If you are interested read what Lisa Pierson DVM writes bout this.....www.catinfo.org , on the whole the recipe looks ok---www.feline-nutrition.org also has a lot of good information

 

[purplesnurple]

I had to choose a carb during the consult for her recipe and she is intolerant of rice, grains, wheat, pasta, etc so I kinda just went with sweet potatoes off of the ingredient label on her old canned food. I was told I could reformulate the recipe to use potatoes instead (more $$$), but she seems to be doing well on sweet potatoes. And regular potatoes had their downside too, so I was at a loss for a carb I could use.

Do you have a link to the exact page where that site discusses sweet potatoes? cause I've browsed the site in the past, but can't find it referenced anymore. I don't remember what the aversion was other than mold on raw potatoes or high phosphorous. I'd be open to other carb suggestions.

I am not a veterinary nutritionist but, as I understand it cats do have a moderate fat requirement. I also wonder why the sweet potatoes? If you are interested read what Lisa Pierson DVM writes bout this.....www.catinfo.org , on the whole the recipe looks ok---www.feline-nutrition.org also has a lot of good information

 

[maureen brad]

I am confused , why did you need a carb? From all the research into feline nutrition I have done ( years of it) cats have no dietary need for any carb. It is purely a filler used in commercial pet food because it is cheap.cats can't digest carbs easily, as I understand it, carbs are especially bad.

 

[purplesnurple]

I am confused , why did you need a carb? From all the research into feline nutrition I have done ( years of it) cats have no dietary need for any carb. It is purely a filler used in commercial pet food because it is cheap.cats can't digest carbs easily, as I understand it, carbs are especially bad.

I don't know? I am relying on the knowledge of the Nutrition department at VA Tech. I'm sure they have a reason for balancing the diet and getting all the required nutrients she needs. I am not a nutritionist and in no way educated enough or willing to make that call for my cat on my own since it's really complex to balance everything and she's so medically needy. They asked me to pick a protein, a carb, and an oil that I'd prefer.

 

[maureen brad]

OK I understand. No, I don't have a direct link to anything written specifically about sweet potatoes. The issue is carbs in general. Many people put some vegetation and fruit in there cat food because they feel that these things would naturally be in the stomach of any prey cat would eat . Others feel that those types of things in the stomach of an animal would be predigested when a cat came in contact with that.I fall into the latter category. Nevertheless, the natural prey of a cat would never contain potatoes in their stomach. If you are interested in doing research about these things the feline- nutrition link I sent to you would have a lot written about it. Also, you can order phosphorus binders that you put in your , Epakitin is sold on Amazon. I'm not trying to put down your nutritionist. I just never fail to be puzzled at why they would suggest putting in something like potatoes or peanut oil. Perhaps other people on this site have suggestions.

 

[orange&white]

I've looked at the Balance IT website before where you develop a recipe choosing a protein, various carbohydrates and a type of oil. Like Maureen, I find those recipes to be very unorthodox compared to everything I learned about feeding raw (or home cooked). I will say that I do see more vegetables and grains on holistic sites with cooked recipes, than on veterinarian-nutritionist sites who recommend raw.

I'm afraid I'm not much help here either, except to say that I would not mix equal parts of meat and potatoes together to feed my cats (or dog...and he would probably handle the carbs better than the cats would).

Not saying it's "wrong", but it's unconventional.

 

[purplesnurple]

Yeah the carbs don't make much sense to me either. But I've been too overwhelmed with her issues lately and their recipe seems to be helping for now. I think they were trying to limit the amount of protein she consumed while still offering enough bulk food to satisfy her for the day to help protect her kidneys since I didn't want to put her on a hydrolyzed protein prescription diet. She doesn't need phosphorous binders yet thankfully, just reduced phosphorous diet which she gets from the Balance IT K. I'll still continue to research it and explore options but for now she is happier and doing much better after years of hospitalizations.

But what are the opinions on center cut pork loin vs lean boneless skinless chicken breast as the protein source? especially interested in opinions on choice for a IBD cat with early kidney disease whom doesn't need to gain any weight (she's a little chunky) and has a good appetite.

I should also mention that I fed her a commercial raw diet when she was younger and unfortunately she contracted salmonella and e coli and got very very sick. Her immune system/digestive system cannot tolerate raw diets. We've spent years trying to restore her gut flora and we suspect that infection was the source of her IBD. So home cooked is the closest I can come to controlling the quality of ingredients she is consuming.

 

[Ardina]

Hi purplesnurple! I'll also preface this by saying I'm not a veterinary nutritionist, but here are my thoughts. The general philosophy in the raw-feeding community is that we try to feed the closest approximation to a cat's natural diet in the wild as possible. Hence, maureen's comment about what would be found in the stomachs of prey animals. When formulating a diet, many of us follow the 80/10/10 rule - 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ - which is the approximate ratio found in mice. Most of us don't add any vegetable or fruit matter, including vegetable oils, on the theory that the amount of vegetable matter in prey stomachs is minuscule and feral cats often leave the stomach contents anyways. Furthermore, cats often develop sensitivities to carbs, so diets like these can help IBD cats.

That being said, these diets are generally formulated for healthy cats. Your cat is more medically complex, particularly the renal disease. I think you're right that they added a carb to decrease the amount of protein in the diet. Essentially the tradeoff is this - the calories can come from carbs, protein, or fat. Both formulas have the same amount of carbs. The pork formula has more calories in the form of fat, and can therefore decrease the amount of protein. The chicken formula has more calories in the form of protein, and thus has less fat.

You want to decrease the amount of fat to prevent weight gain, but you also want to decrease the amount of protein because of renal disease, so it is a matter of which is more important.

Here's what I would suggest:
Start just feeding just the pork formula but a smaller amount to prevent weight gain and see if she still feels satiated. If she's constantly wanting food or gaining too much weight on the amount that she feels satiated at, than add some chicken formula. Keep increasing the ratio of chicken to pork formula until she's at a level where she is satiated and isn't gaining weight. This way, you can minimize the amount of protein she gets and keep her weight stable - a happy medium.

Edited to add: If none of this works out, you can also consider contacting Dr. Lisa Pierson (catinfo.org), a vet who formulates raw/homemade diets for medically complex cats. She does charge for consults, but may be helpful in balancing some of these considerations.

 

[orange&white]

I don't have experience with IBD or kidney disease, but since both pork and chicken were recommended to you, I would rotate recipes and use both.

Pork top loin with all visible fat removed is 40 calories per ounce, 14.6% calories from fat and 6 grams of protein. Boneless skinless chicken breast is 31 calories per ounce, 9.7% fat, and 6.1 grams of protein. Those numbers are for raw meat. After cooking, some of the fat would cook out of the pork unless you are including the drippings in the recipe. Proteins also concentrate with cooking. Anyway, those are the leanest cuts of chicken and pork.

There has been ongoing debate among veterinarians about whether a reduced-protein diet is the right answer for CKD cats. They haven't formed a definite answer, but I believe there is some agreement that it is not a concern to reduce protein until the cat is in late-stage disease. (Same with the phosphorus binder.)

I do understand that we do what is working for the cat before we do what we think should work for the cat. If those recipes are helping her, I'd stick with them.

 

[maureen brad]

I just had a thought.... could you substitute scrambled egg whites for potato? Egg whites can be used (as I understand it) to take the place of some meat in a meal and keep down the phosphorus level? Maybe ask the nutritionist , if she said that was ok I would sure do that before adding any kind of potato.