New Savannah/Bengal Kittens

[jetwet1]

Kopi : 23 inches nose to tail, 9 inches to the shoulder, 4 1/2lbs

Lexi : 20 inches nose to tail,  8 inches to the shoulder, 3 1/2lbs

 

[cat person]

Kopi : 23 inches nose to tail, 9 inches to the shoulder, 4 1/2lbs

Lexi : 20 inches nose to tail,  8 inches to the shoulder, 3 1/2lbs

8 and 9 inches at the shoulder

. My F3 Savannah was only 12 inches at the shoulder and he was considered large for an F3. You are measuring from the cat/kitten's foot (the bottom part and the kitten(s) are on all fours) to the top of the shoulder/ technical term being withers. Lastly, can you get a picture of them standing on all 4's?

Now, the weight chart, does show that they MIGHT TRULY be some type of hybrid. If Kopi, is indeed the male. Since, he should be "outpacing" the female already. By "outpacing" I mean in growth

.

Update :

Well it's been a couple of days, first the human side.... The original owner has not gotten back to me with pictures of the parents...However I spoke to her son (who does not live with her) and he said she is at her mothers house caring for her...

Well, maybe the son can take picture's since, he is in the house

. I am just very interested in the picture's so that way, I can better guess at what type if any, exotic cat hybrid they are

.

The cat side..

Not a whole lot of change, they are still insane,

, like I keep saying, that is a "clue" to them being some type of exotic cat hybrid.

they have become more curious, last night I found them asleep on top of a bookshelf, which is 5 1/2 ft high.

Okay, NORMALLY, the early generation generation (F1-F3) are the ones that are VERY good with heights. Marble, the color of one of the kittens, is only seen in F2-SBT kittens. While, I have seen F1 Felis chaus hybrids, that looked like the other. That was done having a pure Felis chaus breed with DSH (Mackerel tabby, I believe).

I am going to start keeping a record of their size growth on here, Kopi is starting to show his boy side, there is a difference in size that is becoming apparent.

I SWEAR, I was going to ask you to do that. Since, there should be a noticeable size discrepancy in them. The male should be larger. Please have a look at this link, it will explain Haldanes law simpler then I can

: http://www.dreamweavercatz.com/?page_id=137. Also, please note, that it is a Savannah site, but it still applies to Jungle cat hybrids as well

.

All in all though, they are two fun kittens.

Glad you are having fun

. Is your wife, still enjoying them

?

 

[jetwet1]

I just tried to take a picture of Kopi with the tape measure, yeah...sure...new fun game for him....They are both going to the vets tomorrow for shots etc I will see if I can get some pictures then.

The size difference is becoming obvious, to everyone except Lexie, at this point the kittens are 10 weeks old and Kopi is clearly gaining weight and size quicker, Lexie doesn't seem to care though, she will still pick "fights" to be honest, I am starting to get a little worried with this, Kopi has a clear size and strength advantage and isn't afraid to throw his weight around in these "fights", though I guess Lexie will stop or run if it gets to much.

I am seriously considering getting a set of google glasses, it would be far easier to film them with those rather than a camera. One thing Kopi did tonight which made me sit up was I was standing by the hallway table, which is a good 3 1/2ft high, he came walking by and just hoped up on the table, no crouching, no run, just step step bounce.

I have tried holding him while the wife cleans the litter trays (for some reason he loves to be there when they get cleaned) and he is getting strong, the first time I really wasn't expecting it and wow, shocked to say the least.

In other news, it probably wasn't the greatest idea to buy a leather sofa, forget the scratch pads etc, leather sofas are more fun to scratch, so those are now taped up.

Any advice on bitting ? we are trying the tap on the nose "no bitting" thing, but they don't seem to cotton on to that.

Oh a good thing, Lexie loves to wake the wife up in the morning, as my wife is far from a morning person I am more than happy to let the kitten take care of that chore...

Ok, photos tomorrow.

 

[cat person]

I just tried to take a picture of Kopi with the tape measure, yeah...sure...new fun game for him....

, that had to be cute

As you can see, exotic cat hybrids, enjoy playing with ANYTHING

.

They are both going to the vets tomorrow for shots etc

I am just going to give you my

, based off of my humble experience. First of all, be aware that most domestic cat veterinarians are NOT familiar with the exotic cat hybrids. So, just bare that in mind please.
 

Okay, my first "tip" is that giving live or modified live vaccines to a exotic cat hybrids is rather dangerous. Since, with live or modified live vaccines you can actually give the cat the disease itself, instead of preventing it. So, vaccines, like the FeLV vaccine I would NOT recommend.
 

Another VERY important "issue" is anesthesia. While most purely domestic cats, as a whole, do NOT need special anesthesia/anesthetic, exotic cat hybrids, just like pure exotics do. As a general rule, I would recommend ONLY gas anesthetic.
 

If you would like more information on an exotic cat hybrids specific medical needs, I can post some thinks for you to look at

.

.

I will see if I can get some pictures then.

 Yay

, I just can't wait

!!!

The size difference is becoming obvious, to everyone except Lexie,

I know, I am beating a dead horse, but if they are true exotic cat hybrids, that is VERY normal, like I said in post number 22.

at this point the kittens are 10 weeks old and Kopi is clearly gaining weight and size quicker, Lexie doesn't seem to care though,

Again, that is VERY normal, if they are exotic cat hybrids.

she will still pick "fights" to be honest,

Yet again, another "sign" that they are "some type" of exotic cat hybrids. The females tend to be far more "into rough play" then the males, especially they are kittens.

I am starting to get a little worried with this, Kopi has a clear size and strength advantage and isn't afraid to throw his weight around in these "fights",

If these kittens, are truly early generation hybrids, that is normal. Just another "sign" they are some type of exotic cat hybrid.

though I guess Lexie will stop or run if it gets to much.

 Trust me on this note, if the male gets too rough with the female, at a certain point, she will draw blood. That will "teach him" that he needs to stop it. Speaking of play fighting, how are they getting along with your older domestic?

I am seriously considering getting a set of google glasses, it would be far easier to film them with those rather than a camera.

, yes, exotic cat hybrid kittens are VERY active. I would be just as happy to see video''s

!

One thing Kopi did tonight which made me sit up was I was standing by the hallway table, which is a good 3 1/2ft high, he came walking by and just hoped up on the table, no crouching, no run, just step step bounce.

If they are truly early generation (F1-F3) hybrids, that is very normal. My pure African Serval, could jump 15 feet from a "standing/sitting start". My F3 Savannah could jump about seven feet without a "running start". Lastly, my F1 Bengal could do about 10 feet without a "running start".


I have tried holding him while the wife cleans the litter trays (for some reason he loves to be there when they get cleaned)

Please note, I have NO idea why, but my F3 Savannah and F1 Bengal, both enjoyed doing what you describe above. Plus, they "enjoyed" rolling n there empty litter box. The weirdest part, IMHO, was the F1 Bengal JUST used the toilet ( by her own choosing), so why she was interested in a clean litter box is BEYOUND me!

and he is getting strong, the first time I really wasn't expecting it and wow, shocked to say the least.

A true exotic cat hybrid, whether early ( F1-F3) or late (F4-SBT) generation are incredibly strong. Before long, you will not be able to physically restrain them. So, I would recommend that you get them used to "restraint training". If you want more details, on what and how to that, just let me know.

In other news, it probably wasn't the greatest idea to buy a leather sofa, forget the scratch pads etc, leather sofas are more fun to scratch, so those are now taped up.

If they are early generation cats, be VERY CAREFUL. As they get older, the might eat both the leather and tape. Since, like I have said before, exotic cat hybrids are prone to pica. Which can cause death or in the case of some of my former hybrids and pure exotic VERY costly surgery.

Any advice on bitting ?

Yes

. But, as always, I have a lot of questions. Number one, when are they biting you, like what situation(s)? How often are they biting you? Are there ears forward when they are biting you? Do they draw blood? If yes, how often? Lastly, what is your reaction when they bite you?

we are trying the tap on the nose "no bitting" thing, but they don't seem to cotton on to that.

That is actually teaching them to bite. It is NOT recommend for pure exotic or exotic cat hybrid kittens. Depending on your answer's, I will be better able to help you with the biting.

Oh a good thing, Lexie loves to wake the wife up in the morning, as my wife is far from a morning person I am more than happy to let the kitten take care of that chore...

smart husband

.

Ok, photos tomorrow.

Yay

!

 

[jetwet1]

On the bitting. Ears are forward, no blood. Lexie also seems to like to go for my ankles and my wifes toes.

When they have bitten or tried to by a tap on the nose and we say "no bitting"

I'm about to send Kopi in to wake up the wife so they can be at the vets by 3pm.
 

 

[jetwet1]

Back from the vet, all good so far.

Kopi came in at 4.9lbs

Lexi came in at 4.3lbs

20130730_154636.jpg

• jetwet1
• Jul 30, 2013

Horrible picture I know, I will try and get a better one when they are napping

 

[cat person]

Horrible picture I know,

It is nice to see him

. He is a very big boy indeed

. I

the "horrible picture".

I will try and get a better one when they are napping

Yes, that tends to be the best "photo ops" of exotic cat hybrids

!

On the bitting. Ears are forward, no blood.

Okay, more likely then not, the cat(s) are playing. But, that playing needs to be controlled NOW! Since, you do not want the cat(s) to injure you (on purpose or by accident) as he/she matures. Now, having said that, it is VERY normal for exotic cat hybrids to "play bite". These are  the articles/websites, that I found to be helpful : http://www.amnestywildlifesanctuary.com/trainingoperant.html: and  http://www.amnestywildlifesanctuary.com/trainingclassical.html. I also want to post this link, since, it will help you with "teaching them to like being restrained": http://www.amnestywildlifesanctuary.com/trainingrestraint.html. I used them ALL with my exotic cat hybrids and pure exotic cat. The "articles" worked WONDERS!

Lexie also seems to like to go for my ankles

You can try this product, it is called "Bitter Apple". It can be seen here: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754400. While it did NOT work great for me, it does work for some people with exotic and exotic cat hybrid kittens. If, that does not work, then I would recommend trying a small amount of Tabasco Sauce, rubbed on your flesh. After a few bites, my pure  Leptailurus serval did stop for the most part. It also worked on my F3 Savannah. With my F1 Bengal, the conditioning mentioned a redirection helped a lot.

and my wifes toes.

None of my cats: F1 Bengal, Pure Serval or F3 Savannah, would stop that behavior. I just stopped being barefoot and wearing open toed shoes near them. My pure Leptailurus serval and F3 Savannah "just loved feet". Clean or just out of shoes, it did not matter. They would both just rub on them. To the point "they where frothing at the mouth" due to being so "excited by the scent". This of course, eventually lead to being bitten. My F1 Bengal, would just try and remove your toe nails

. So, what I am trying to say is this: it seems exotic cat hybrids, at least the early generation ones, just like the pure exotics are too rough on human feet

.

When they have bitten or tried to by a tap on the nose and we say "no bitting"

Like I said, I did not have any success with that method. It just seemed to make my cats bite more. Have a look at some of those links, hopefully, they will help

. Now, having said all that, early genration and sometimes later generation exotic cat hybrids bite fairly frequently for the first year. They TEND to bite less as they mature. But, owning a pure exotic or early generation hybrid, does mean you will get bitten. That is just how they play. But, you want to teach things like "no bite" so that way you have more control over the animal. Hence, you will get bitten less often and once you "say the command" it will "snap the animal out of it"

.

I'm about to send Kopi in to wake up the wife so they can be at the vets by 3pm.

Hope all goes well at the vet. Let us, or at least me, know how it goes

 

 

[jetwet1]

I showed the vet what you had written and he agreed with you, we have been using the same vet now for over a decade and he is great, he laid out a course of vaccines for them and wrote down instructions in their files so just in case he isn't there for the next round. I totally forgot to ask which one he used, please remind me next month when they go in for their next shots.

At the vets they wanted to explore, then Lexie decided she wanted her tummy rubbed, with the vet himself the only time they were not happy was when he injected them, Lexi didn't seem to care, Kopi growled at him, once home they went back to being themselves pretty quickly.

20130730_174919.jpg

• jetwet1
• Jul 30, 2013

That's the best I can do right now with Kopi, it was pretty much, get the tape close, take a picture and pray, so the tape isn't really lined up with him and he is still a little curled up from sleeping.

Thanks for the links on bitting, I will be reading them in a few.

 

[jetwet1]

Oh, one thing I would like some thoughts on.

We got them a cat tree last week, of course, this has been totally ignored in favor of the bookcases........

So what I am thinking of doing is setting up a series of floating book shelves like these :


Putting them up on one wall, covering them with carpet and fingers crossed the cats will jump on these, it will give them a way to zigzag up the wall which they seem to like to do.

 

[AbbysMom]

Oh, one thing I would like some thoughts on.

We got them a cat tree last week, of course, this has been totally ignored in favor of the bookcases........ :smshfrk:

So what I am thinking of doing is setting up a series of floating book shelves like these :

http://www.amazon.com/Nexxt-FN07780-7-Vertigo-Series-Quadruple/dp/B000IJ09JA/ref=pd_sim_hg_5

Putting them up on one wall, covering them with carpet and fingers crossed the cats will jump on these, it will give them a way to zigzag up the wall which they seem to like to do.

You may want to ask this question in our Care and Grooming section.

 

[cat person]

Oh, one thing I would like some thoughts on.

We got them a cat tree last week, of course, this has been totally ignored in favor of the bookcases........

They will more then likely, love the cat tree over time. They are just more "used to" the bookcase. You can try playing with them on the cat tree if you want. That MIGHT help them "like" the cat tree fast. But, like I said, I am sure over time they will love the cat tree.

So what I am thinking of doing is setting up a series of floating book shelves like these :


 Those look GREAT. I was going to say, the ones for domestic cats, are NOT GOOD for exotic cat hybrids or pure exotics. Even my F1 Bengal, who was around 8lbs broke them. The reason is the exotic cat hybrids are MUCH STRONGER and "BOUNCE HARDER" then almost any purely domestic cats.

Putting them up on one wall, covering them with carpet

I am not sure, that I would carpet it because of the possible pica issues. But, it is up to you of course. Plus, I was very paranoid over my exotic cat hybrids and pure exotics

.

and fingers crossed the cats will jump on these, it will give them a way to zigzag up the wall which they seem to like to do.

Yes, exotic cat hybrids LOVE "household amenities" like that

.

I showed the vet what you had written and he agreed with you,

Well, it is very nice to see a medical professional being taught the proper care of exotic and exotic cat hybrids.

we have been using the same vet now for over a decade and he is great,

Your veterinarian does indeed sound great! If these cats, are truly some form of exotic cat hybrid, you are VERY lucky, to have such a knowledgeable veterinarian. In fact, can we share your him

.

he laid out a course of vaccines for them and wrote down instructions in their files so just in case he isn't there for the next round.

Wow, not only is that a VERY knowledgeable veterinarian but he has VERY "common sense"!

I totally forgot to ask which one he used, please remind me next month when they go in for their next shots.

Okay, will do

.

At the vets they wanted to explore,

Typical exotic cat hybrid

.

then Lexie decided she wanted her tummy rubbed,

Awe, very very cute. Just so you know, all my early generation hybrids, loved to have there bellies rubbed into adulthood. Which, in my experience, is very very rare with pure domestics.

with the vet himself the only time they were not happy was when he injected them,

Who can blame them

? I sure don't like shots

!

Lexi didn't seem to care, Kopi growled at him, once home they went back to being themselves pretty quickly.

Well, that sounds like a FANTASTIC vet visit. You want to keep a positive association with the vet visits.Since, as I am sure you are aware, there is NOTHING like an upset exotic cat hybrid at the vet. Okay, there is one thing like it, a pure exotic

.

That's the best I can do right now with Kopi, it was pretty much, get the tape close, take a picture and pray, so the tape isn't really lined up with him and he is still a little curled up from sleeping.

He is adorable. Either way, he is pretty tall for a 10 week old kitten

.

Thanks for the links on bitting, I will be reading them in a few.

They are not exactly about biting. They are about how to train an exotic cat in general. Then you apply it to bitting. If those links where NOT helpful, I can help you with biting via what I have learned, if you wish

.

 

[jetwet1]

Read the links, and yes, some direct info on bitting would be great, we have been working on the positive reinforcement, mostly with Lexie, Kopi seems to want to please, Lexie has a more, well hard headed attitude towards life.

I am going to hold off on the shelving until I get a rough idea on the final size of these two, there is no point in me putting up shelving, only to have them rip it out of the wall, which of course means more work for me

 

 

[cat person]

Read the links,

Glad, hopefully you at least enjoyed them.

and yes, some direct info on bitting would be great,

I am assuming (note the word in assuming

) that the kittens are biting you when they are playing. NOT while eating or if you are trying to take an object away from them. If they are biting you when it is "food related" or taking away an object like a toy or something they should not have, like any form of a pica item, I have found a VERY different strategy helpful.

Anyway, this is how I stopped "play biting" with my F1 Bengal and F3 Savannah. The pure Leptailurus serval was a "whole other matter". It was more like teaching the early generation hybrids, not to bite when food was involved and "drop forbidden" object on "command".

So anyway, first of all try and keep a stuffed toy handy or an old knotted up CLEAN shirt. Whenever a kitten bites your body shove the toy or knotted piece of clothing in its mouth. Do not say one word or make one noise. The element of surprise works with this method.

Now, if you don't like that method or it does not work with your kitten(s), I would recommend the Tabasco sauce on the skin. Apply some, make the kitten "bite you" on the area that you just applied the Tabasco sauce. Again, do not say anything, other then, what is "needed" to get the kitten "amped up"enough to want to bite you. Trust me, a few times with Tabasco works QUICKLY.

If you do not like either of those methods or they are not working for you or your kitten(s), then whenever the kitten bites you in play, stop whatever you are doing. Again, do not make a noise. Once the kitten stops and looks at you for a few seconds, if you have a toy handy (try and keep one handy for this method), throw it. That should help too

.

If none of those methods work or it is not "play biting" I will give you some more suggestions.
 

we have been working on the positive reinforcement, mostly with Lexie,

Okay.

Kopi seems to want to please, Lexie has a more, well hard headed attitude towards life.

That is for a multitude of reasons, if they are some type of exotic cat hybrid. I will just "touch on" some. The first is that, males, tend to calmer and more "easy going" or placid then there female counter parts. The second is that, your female "is the dominant one" in the "relationship". Hence, the male is already used to "submitting". Hopefully, that made sense. If you need any clarification, just ask

.

I am going to hold off on the shelving until I get a rough idea on the final size of these two, there is no point in me putting up shelving, only to have them rip it out of the wall, which of course means more work for me

Makes "PURRfect" sense to me

. I promise, no more corny jokes

.
 

 

[jetwet1]

Sorry for the lack of updates, the last couple of days have been rough. I came home a couple of days ago to find our 14 year old tabby having issues walking, we knew she had cancer and it was only a matter of time, but this came out of the blue, yesterday morning she was totally unable to walk, so we made the decision that it was time.

The next couple of hours were some of the hardest in my life, we lost a friend, a companion and a family member.

She was a kitten when my wife got her, about 4 years old when I showed up, it took a year before she would even let me pet her, but from that point on she adopted me, she would lay with me when I was in my office, sit with me when we were out in the living room and now as I sit here in my office there is a massive hole in my life, just from habit I turn around to talk to her, and of course she is not there, that's when it really hit me.

I may well be MIA for a couple of days, but I will be back to update you on the two lunatics.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Sorry for the lack of updates, the last couple of days have been rough. I came home a couple of days ago to find our 14 year old tabby having issues walking, we knew she had cancer and it was only a matter of time, but this came out of the blue, yesterday morning she was totally unable to walk, so we made the decision that it was time.

The next couple of hours were some of the hardest in my life, we lost a friend, a companion and a family member.

She was a kitten when my wife got her, about 4 years old when I showed up, it took a year before she would even let me pet her, but from that point on she adopted me, she would lay with me when I was in my office, sit with me when we were out in the living room and now as I sit here in my office there is a massive hole in my life, just from habit I turn around to talk to her, and of course she is not there, that's when it really hit me.

I may well be MIA for a couple of days, but I will be back to update you on the two lunatics.

On behalf of the moderating team, I am offering our sincere sympathies to you on the loss of your dear cat. When you feel up to it, you might want to start a thread in our Crossing the Bridge Forum as a memorial to her. When you do that our members can offer their condolences and support to you and your wife. Also we look forward to the updates on the kittens. I am sure they will bring you much needed comfort at this time. I believe they will pick up on your grief and offer you extra love at this time.

 

[maewkaew]

 I am so sorry for your loss of your dear Sassy. 

    My old cat died last year and i still do miss him so much.   

I know nothing can replace her in your hearts.  but  I hope those kittens may help to bring you some smiles despite your grief. 

 

[jetwet1]

Thanks for the replies, it's been a rough week to say the least, but yes the kittens are helping.

 

[jetwet1]

Wow, it's been two weeks between updates, work has been nuts but I am sorry, I will try to post more regularly.

Well not a whole lot has happened in the last two weeks, except them growing, dear lord it is amazing, as they have just woken up, I am not even going to try and measure them, they are just to playful, however, I can check their weights.

Kopi :7lbs

Lexi  5 1/2 lbs

The one striking thing with Kopi is his muscle tones, the boy is built like a tank.

A small funny, with all the toys and equipment these two have, Lexi has found her favorite play thing, one of my wifes scrunchies, she loves the thing, while at first I nearly had a heart attack thinking of the vet bills if she swallowed it, she actually has not done any damage to it, she just carries it around with her where ever she goes. Kopi did try to take it from her a couple of nights ago, big mistake, it's actually the first time I have had to pull them apart, Kopi may be bigger and stronger, but wow Lexi can hold her own if she wants to.