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If there's a vet I don't trust - it's the shelter vet who gave her a rabies vacc the day after all her other ones, and then failed to see that something was wrong with her!!
**fumes**
**fumes**
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New Re-homed cat, very lethargic and non-reactive.
- Thread starter mariel
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Sending you hugs-Sounds like whatever it is that is wrong-is not black and white. Very frustrating. An ultrasound on her liver sounds like a good idea but still doesn't answer why her white blood cells are high and a fever. It does point to infection but where? This is the hardest thing to solve=infections that are not visible. This has to be the most heart breaking thing-trying to bring home a new kitty who is not doing well. My heart aches for you.
I just wanted to attach a link about how to find help to pay for vet bills if you needed it! Maybe something on there could be helpful, I really hope everything turns out ok
http://www.thecatsite.com/a/no-money-for-vet-care-how-to-find-help-and-save-your-cats-life <---- this is the link!
The fever came down when she was on the amoxicillin, which is a penicillin, and then they added Neofloxin (ciprofloxacin) which is a fluoroquinalone. The two groups act in different ways so, they were covering many bases, and both of those are broad spectrum. The only thing I might change is using the combination of amoxicillin and clavulen, called Clavamox, because the second ingredient in the combo reduces bacterial resistance to the first, i.e. Clavamox will work on bacteria that amoxicillin alone does not. So if the fever is coming back, but was initially responsive to the amoxicillin,it makes me think that whatever she has may have developed resistance to the amoxicillin. It's worth a try! All vets have Clavamox.
My only other thought is that sometimes it's OK not to have a definitive diagnosis IF you are able to treat the problem well enough to allow their own body time to fight off whatever it is. If she is running a LOW grade fever, you can live with that. Fever is the body's way of fighting off viruses, and sometimes the fever doesn't kill off the virus until it peaks at some scary high number. I have had kittens going through what we call the "limping calici" which is a form of a common virus type that isnt covered by the calici vaccine. Their fevers spike around 106 and obviously they couldn't maintain that temperature and live, but that seems to kill the virus and then they get better. The whole thing lasts 3-7 days and its gone.
With her, it's important that they see the white blood cell count come down, because that's how the body fights bacteria, not viruses, and if the white cell count comes down, that would mean the antibiotics are working. There are seven groups of antibiotics which all work in different ways, and there is one specific cat disease I know of that does not respond to either the penicillins or the fluoroquinolones. You didn't mention if her blood work showed any anemia, but:
Haemobartonellosis, also called feline infectious anemia (we old folks just called it hemobartonella). It's transmitted by fleas and ticks (again, we don't know her background) and the presenting symptoms are the same as hers: fever, depression, loss of appetite, dehydration, and a higher than normal bilirubin. Haemobartonellosis in cats is caused by Mycoplasma haemofelis, formerly known as Haemobartonella felis. It belongs to a group of microorganisms called mycoplasma, which are the smallest free-living type of 'germs.' It invades the red blood cells and destroys them. Bilirubin is a natural product in red blood cells, and when it is released from natural or diseased destruction of red blood cells, it is processed in the liver. If there is no primary liver disease, a high bilirubin usually indicates excessive destruction of red cells (such as with a hemolytic anemia) that is overwhelming the liver’s ability to process it.
In the cat, the disease can run the spectrum from being very mild, with no symptoms or only a slight anemia, to a disease that is very severe. Left untreated, some cats will die from the severe anemia, but other cats can recover from the disease but become carriers of the organism. This means the cats look healthy but still have small numbers of these mycoplasma in their bodies. If these cats are stressed, it sometimes causes the organisms to multiply and produce disease.
Diagnosis can be tricky. Sometimes the organism can be seen inside cells on a blood smear, but the number of organisms in the bloodstream can fluctuate dramatically. There can be many observed in one sample, and a sample taken two hours later may reveal none. A PCR (polyermase chain reaction) blood test to detect hemotropic mycoplasmas in cats is available, so if your vet thinks it might be one of these, you could try that. I have no idea how much it costs but it's probably not too expensive.
So it's a long shot but still a possibility. The treatment for mycoplasma infections such as hemobartonella requires a different class of antibiotics than your vets are using, the tetracyclines, which are not broad spectrum, not a drug a vet would commonly use for an undiagnosed infection, but very specific for mycobacteria and a few other weird diseases like Lyme disease and rickettsial diseases carried by ticks and fleas. Antibiotics such as tetracycline, oxytetracycline, or doxycycline are given for three weeks. Sometimes steroids are used to slow the destruction of red cells, and in severe anemia, blood transfusions are needed.
We have had a few threads on here started by people whose cats had various kinds of anemia, and they were always mysterious and hard to diagnose. In some cases there was never a diagnosis as to the cause of the anemia, but it was just there and kept happening. In most cases, however, while it has been a struggle and relapses have occurred, so far they are still here. One person updated recently and we had not heard from her in a year (so we feared the worst) but her cat is still here and doing well. She's a great example of the expression "Don't give up until the miracle happens."
Anyhow, I just thought I would throw that out as a wild possibility. If that's what she has, you could certainly treat her at home with the feeding tube and medication and getting away from the stress of being in a vet hospital would certainly help her recover.
My only other thought is that sometimes it's OK not to have a definitive diagnosis IF you are able to treat the problem well enough to allow their own body time to fight off whatever it is. If she is running a LOW grade fever, you can live with that. Fever is the body's way of fighting off viruses, and sometimes the fever doesn't kill off the virus until it peaks at some scary high number. I have had kittens going through what we call the "limping calici" which is a form of a common virus type that isnt covered by the calici vaccine. Their fevers spike around 106 and obviously they couldn't maintain that temperature and live, but that seems to kill the virus and then they get better. The whole thing lasts 3-7 days and its gone.
With her, it's important that they see the white blood cell count come down, because that's how the body fights bacteria, not viruses, and if the white cell count comes down, that would mean the antibiotics are working. There are seven groups of antibiotics which all work in different ways, and there is one specific cat disease I know of that does not respond to either the penicillins or the fluoroquinolones. You didn't mention if her blood work showed any anemia, but:
Haemobartonellosis, also called feline infectious anemia (we old folks just called it hemobartonella). It's transmitted by fleas and ticks (again, we don't know her background) and the presenting symptoms are the same as hers: fever, depression, loss of appetite, dehydration, and a higher than normal bilirubin. Haemobartonellosis in cats is caused by Mycoplasma haemofelis, formerly known as Haemobartonella felis. It belongs to a group of microorganisms called mycoplasma, which are the smallest free-living type of 'germs.' It invades the red blood cells and destroys them. Bilirubin is a natural product in red blood cells, and when it is released from natural or diseased destruction of red blood cells, it is processed in the liver. If there is no primary liver disease, a high bilirubin usually indicates excessive destruction of red cells (such as with a hemolytic anemia) that is overwhelming the liver’s ability to process it.
In the cat, the disease can run the spectrum from being very mild, with no symptoms or only a slight anemia, to a disease that is very severe. Left untreated, some cats will die from the severe anemia, but other cats can recover from the disease but become carriers of the organism. This means the cats look healthy but still have small numbers of these mycoplasma in their bodies. If these cats are stressed, it sometimes causes the organisms to multiply and produce disease.
Diagnosis can be tricky. Sometimes the organism can be seen inside cells on a blood smear, but the number of organisms in the bloodstream can fluctuate dramatically. There can be many observed in one sample, and a sample taken two hours later may reveal none. A PCR (polyermase chain reaction) blood test to detect hemotropic mycoplasmas in cats is available, so if your vet thinks it might be one of these, you could try that. I have no idea how much it costs but it's probably not too expensive.
So it's a long shot but still a possibility. The treatment for mycoplasma infections such as hemobartonella requires a different class of antibiotics than your vets are using, the tetracyclines, which are not broad spectrum, not a drug a vet would commonly use for an undiagnosed infection, but very specific for mycobacteria and a few other weird diseases like Lyme disease and rickettsial diseases carried by ticks and fleas. Antibiotics such as tetracycline, oxytetracycline, or doxycycline are given for three weeks. Sometimes steroids are used to slow the destruction of red cells, and in severe anemia, blood transfusions are needed.
We have had a few threads on here started by people whose cats had various kinds of anemia, and they were always mysterious and hard to diagnose. In some cases there was never a diagnosis as to the cause of the anemia, but it was just there and kept happening. In most cases, however, while it has been a struggle and relapses have occurred, so far they are still here. One person updated recently and we had not heard from her in a year (so we feared the worst) but her cat is still here and doing well. She's a great example of the expression "Don't give up until the miracle happens."
Anyhow, I just thought I would throw that out as a wild possibility. If that's what she has, you could certainly treat her at home with the feeding tube and medication and getting away from the stress of being in a vet hospital would certainly help her recover.
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Thank you @Red Top Rescue! That was very encouraging.
@Mariel, I feel a bit better about your vets after what you said. I'm also angry at that shelter vet who let this slip. We are all hoping for little Koi that she takes a turn for the better very soon! We are all here for you!
@Mariel, I feel a bit better about your vets after what you said. I'm also angry at that shelter vet who let this slip. We are all hoping for little Koi that she takes a turn for the better very soon! We are all here for you!
Mariel, I have just read your post about Koi and all the mysterious medical issues this poor cat is/has endured AND, I feel your pain. You obviously care deeply about Koi and want to do the best you can to help, but I also understand the practical issue of how to afford the medical care that seems to be needed. There is also the issue of Koi’s quality of life---is it fair to allow Koi to continue to be ill and possibly suffering in the hope that a miracle will be forthcoming. No one can help you decide what to do, but you should also know that no one (I hope) will judge you no matter what decision you choose to make--even if that decision is euthanasia. It’s obvious you are a loving pet parent and want what is best for Koi—it’s possible that may mean letting go and giving Koi release from any pain/suffering. Please know that I send positive thoughts your way and support you no matter what decisions you make. MaryAnn
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She's beautiful. I pray its not FIP. A few years ago I adopted two kitbothtens and it turned out they both had it. You are in my thoughts.
My last picture of her... sweet little Koyuki
It's not FIP, @Stewball. Viral tests were negative.
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Thank goodness. Sorry about.the typo in the other message. It should read kittens. Sisters. The sweetest littkr lovelies. I'm so pleased it's not that dreadful FIP.
@Mariel -- just wanting to check on you and your Koi. how is your girl doing?
