New Kitten and raw feeding

[makovach]

Hello. I am new to the site. I have been feeding my three boxers prey model raw for five months. Yesterday, we adopted a little male Maine Coon mix kitten, His name is Thor. I thought he was 9 weeks old, but just found out that he is five weeks old. I've had cats before, But I have never fed raw to a cat. I do believe that it is best for him as I believe in the most natural care for ourselves and our animals.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice as of what/how to get him to eat?

I offered him a few 1/2 in cubes of pork heart and a thigh from a Cornish game hen at room temperature. Originally, I thought that he had eaten a piece of the pork heart, but he did not.

We tried feeding him again this morning with no luck. I put the food I offered him last night into the food processor and made it into a mince that is similar to a Pate style canned food, he is a little more interested in it and is going up to it and sniffing it like crazy, but he isn't willing to try it.

From what I have heard/read about cats, you can not use the though love method as you can with dogs. Cats need to eat or else they will get sick?

So do I get to break down and buy kibble? Or can we give this a shot?

 

[Willowy]

If he's only 5 weeks old, he's barely started on solids! Cubes are too big for him at this point. Try pureeing the raw food and mixing it with canned (whatever he likes). What was he eating before?

At this age, you can smear a bit of the raw puree in his mouth. . .I do it to get babies to eat their canned food. It gets them used to the taste.

And no, not kibble! It's the worst thing for cats. If you need a commercial food, canned only is best.

 

[melissa kovach]

Okay thank you.

We did put his food into the food processor and make it into a mince/puree. I will try to smear some of it in his mouth and see what he does.

He was eating felidae dry I do believe before we got him.

If we have to buy canned food, what brand would you suggest?

Would it be okay to try canned fish (no salt, in water) before trying the canned?

 

[Willowy]

Pretty much any canned food is better than any dry food. But try to avoid veggies/starches/grains as much as possible. Felidae does have a canned food, I believe, although I'm not sure of the ingredients. Are you sure he's only 5 weeks old? At that age they usually aren't eating kibble consistently.

If he's really addicted to his kibble, you can grind it up and sprinkle it on his raw food (or canned food). That should get him started.

Fish isn't great for cats, although a sardine now and then is good for omega 3s. But it doesn't have the same texture or flavor as cat food so I don't think it'll be a very good test :dk:.

 

[ldg]

Hi! Oh such a little baby!!!

Yeah, cats are completely different than dogs. You simply can't starve a kitty into eating. But at that age, it shouldn't be difficult to get him eating a wide variety of proteins.

For canned... the Weruva chicken, Nature's Variety canned, Ziwipeak canned, Before Grain canned, Wellness canned - they're all reasonable quality and mostly meat. :nod: They should have a smell that will attract him. If you want to sprinkle something on his food that should smell REALLY good to him, you can use Fortiflora. It's a bad probiotic, and the thing in it that attracts them is the animal digest (a horrible thing to feed a pet!!!) - but most vets carry it, so you should easily be able to get it, and you only need a VERY light dusting of the stuff across the top. (One packet should last for a lot of servings - you're using it to attract him to the food, so ignore the instructions).

Now - as he's a little baby, and doesn't have much of an immune system, I would get him on a good probiotic right away. Look for an acidophilus supplement that has 5 billion active cultures. Adult cats need 10 billion CFU, but little kitties need a child-size portion.

The main nutritional difference between cats and dogs is that dogs have the ability to eat grain, veggies, fruits and stuff and derive benefit from them. I know a lot of those things are in a lot of cat foods, but cats, unlike dogs, are obligate carnivores, and carbohydrates just take a toll on their systems over time.

They can't convert beta carotene into Vitamin A - they need it from meat (liver is high in vitamin A). They lack the digestive enzymes necessary to convert AA to LA - they need it in the meat. Actually, here's a quick overview:

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/The_Essential_PUFA_Guide.shtml "The Essential PUFA guide for dogs and cats"

Unlike domestic dogs, house cats have retained their hunting instincts and are not entirely dependent on humans for food. Kittens without human contact revert to feral behavior and cannot be socialized as adults. Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat meat, fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds to live and reproduce. [15] As such, felines have specific metabolic differences from humans and dogs. [11]



*Cats cannot make vitamin A from beta-carotene and require preformed vitamin A from animal sources.

*Felines metabolize carbohydrates poorly and can neither tolerate nor thrive on a high-carbohydrate diet.

*Cats have high protein requirements but cannot easily replace protein in the diet with other energy sources to conserve body protein. In starvation conditions, cats waste their own muscles in a matter of days.

*The amino acids arginine and taurine are essential for cats. Lack of these in the diet rapidly causes blindness and death. Only animal protein provides arginine and taurine at the levels cats require.

Naturally, feline PUFA metabolism is strictly carnivorous. Cats do not eat fruit, vegetables, nuts, or seeds in their natural diet and have no need for vegetable oils, either. Cats lack some of the enzymes that enable humans and dogs to convert LA to LC-PUFAs. Because cats cannot synthesize AA, their daily requirement for AA is so high that it must be provided in the diet. [12]

Cats need only a small amount of LA (less than humans or dogs), but a normal diet supplies it and there is no need to supplement. Cats cannot make GLA from LA, but they do not seem to need much...

DHA is critical for cats, but they cannot make it from LNA because of the same reasons they cannot convert LA to LC-PUFAs. [16] Kittens born to cats deprived of DHA may have visual and some nervous system defects. [17] Fish oil is the only currently acceptable n-3 PUFA supplement for cats. Algal DHA may be effective, but it is expensive and has never been tested on cats. Also, vegetable matter is not part of a cat's normal diet, and algal DHA has no EPA, which could be important. Cats fed dry food or rarely fed fish may be in need of n-3 LC-PUFAs. DHA deficiency quickly reduces a cat's vision, immunity, and breeding performance. [8,11,17]

When feeding cats a whole prey model raw diet, the rule of thumb is 80% meat. 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% "other secreting organ."

The cornish game hen he probably just doesn't know what to do with it yet. :dk: Did you chop it up for him? And being so little, for the bones, you may want to stick with the wings and ribs for now?

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Laurie, I can't believe you recommended Fortiflora when better meal toppers are on Amazon.

Bontio Flakes:
Kitty Kaviar:

 

[fair2middling]

Laurie, I can't believe you recommended Fortiflora when better meal toppers are on Amazon.

Bontio Flakes:
Kitty Kaviar:

Perhaps it's due to the fact that the kittens immune system has not developed yet. Fortiflora  is a probiotic .

 

[ldg]

I recommended it because so little is used (like 1/64 of a teaspoon? less? ) when just "dusted" over the top and it's easy to obtain locally. Her kitty needs to eat now - not when something arrives at the end of the week after having been ordered online.

And it would be a short-term thing. Finnlacey or Whollycat has something else they recommend (sorry, I can't remember who recommends it or what it is!).

But I'd rather avoid fishy stuff for cats, because the smell is SO strong, it can make them not want anything else. It's much harder to wean cats off that strong of a smell. The Fortiflora smells like kibble, which is what makes it ideal (other than the fact that it's garbage) when transitioning from kibble.

 

[ldg]

Perhaps it's due to the fact that the kittens immune system has not developed yet. Fortiflora  is a probiotic .

No, I recommend a human acidophilus (or acidophilus+bifidus) supplement. 5 billion active cultures for a kitten; 10 billion active cultures for an adult cat. I don't recommend Fortiflora as a probiotic. And I definitely do not recommend it be used according to the instructions on it.

 

[fair2middling]

No, I recommend a human acidophilus (or acidophilus+bifidus) supplement. 5 billion active cultures for a kitten; 10 billion active cultures for an adult cat. I don't recommend Fortiflora as a probiotic.

And I definitely do not recommend it be used according to the instructions on it.

Well thanks for the info, clearly I'm not ready to venture into the realm of raw.

 

[ldg]

Well thanks for the info, clearly I'm not ready to venture into the realm of raw.

:scratch: I'm not sure what one has to do with the other. But this would be a discussion for a different thread.

 

[makovach]

Thank you to everyone for your replies.

We made his puree of pork heart, chicken thigh and egg. The first night, we were smearing it on his tongue.  Saturday morning, He ate his whole meal that way. Saturday afternoon, he dug right in and started chowing down. He has been eating 2-3 oz four times a day since. Today we made a new mixture of pork heart, chicken leg, beef heart and liver. I let it a little more coarse than the first batch. He wasn't interested in a taste test tonight (he's already had 10oz today) so we shall see how it goes in the morning.

My plan is to keep switching his proteins and make mixes of all kinds of things to get him to eat it. As we do this, I will gradually make his meals more coarse until he is eating whole pieces.

As for a probiotic, I have been giving a probiotic that I get from my vets (it is a holistic, made at their own facility and is their own product to go with raw diets for cats and dogs). We are almost out of it, and we will be getting Primal Defense to take it's place.

 

[carolina]

Laurie, I can't believe you recommended Fortiflora when better meal toppers are on Amazon.

Bontio Flakes: http://www.amazon.com/Cat-Man-Doo-Extra-Bonito-Flakes-4-Ounce/dp/B00271FK5A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2UP0GWH9BBLF9&colid=255IJGFEWC3EI

Kitty Kaviar: http://www.amazon.com/6-PACK-Kitty-Kaviar-6-oz/dp/B000OSL2J6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_piT1_S_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I10O2D32TI6QAK&colid=255IJGFEWC3EI

Emily..... It's all fine and dandy..... when the cats like the better options..... A light dust of Fortiflora will generally work wonders - while many, many other toppers, no matter how good they look in the books, don't.
I had an arsenal here - I relied on fortiflora for a while - while I do not like it.... It does help a LOT while transitioning and to entice a cat who is off food to eat again :nod:
Now I use Whole Life chicken for Lucky only.... but it took a while to get there, that's for sure.

 

[carolina]

Thank you to everyone for your replies.

We made his puree of pork heart, chicken thigh and egg. The first night, we were smearing it on his tongue.  Saturday morning, He ate his whole meal that way. Saturday afternoon, he dug right in and started chowing down. He has been eating 2-3 oz four times a day since. Today we made a new mixture of pork heart, chicken leg, beef heart and liver. I let it a little more coarse than the first batch. He wasn't interested in a taste test tonight (he's already had 10oz today) so we shall see how it goes in the morning.

My plan is to keep switching his proteins and make mixes of all kinds of things to get him to eat it. As we do this, I will gradually make his meals more coarse until he is eating whole pieces.

As for a probiotic, I have been giving a probiotic that I get from my vets (it is a holistic, made at their own facility and is their own product to go with raw diets for cats and dogs). We are almost out of it, and we will be getting Primal Defense to take it's place.

How are you keeping the proportions? Are you following the 80% 10% 5 and 5% rule?

 

[ldg]

Oh that's great she's eating with gusto! I am a little concerned I don't hear any mention of bone/calcium... ???

 

[makovach]

i his mix, I mixed a Cornish game hen wing, leg and thigh and some breast meat (3/4lb roughly) and 8oz pork heart, 8oz beef heart and 2oz of beef liver.  it was all minced and mixed. So yes, he is getting bone and organ as well.
 

 

[makovach]

Thor is now eating whole items. Today, so far he has had a Cornish Game Hen back, 2oz of heart, 2 oz of chicken boneless breast and 1oz of liver.