New here, need help with cat intros

scarecrow5

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Hi everyone, new here, looking for advice on a cat intro.  I have done these before, several times, but this one is a bit difficult.  
 Looking for tips.  

Quick history.  Me, have two cats, one is 4 (Milo, male) and the other almost 2 (Abby, female).  I had the a 16 yr old when I got Milo, Milo was a kitten at the time.  When Milo was 2, my older guy passed away. A few months later Abby found me.  So I brought Abby in and introduced her to Milo, after a while, fell into place.  They are best friends now, cuddle together, play together, like they have been together their whole lives.  Milo is shy around people and very clingy to me, Abby is crazy, she listens to no one, and does what she dang well pleases and however she pleases lol.  She is crazy with a personality that would make anyone laugh 24/7, she loves everyone but me....deep down inside she secretly likes me tho and I know it.  haha.  

So it has just been us three.  

Recently my partner moved in with me, and has a cat who adopted from a pound about 5 years ago, his age is unknown, guessing approximately 8 or 9 I would say.  Name is Harley (male).  Harley has had a few problems.  When he was first taken home, they put a color on him and he went crazy, self mutilated himself around his neck to the point where he dug all the hair off around his neck even after they took away the color and never put it back on, he did it so bad his hair has not and will not fully grow back.  This went on for a while and the vet eventually said the only solution was to declaw all four of his paws or put him on anxiety/depression meds.  So he was declawed on all four paws.  He is kind of shy and withdrawn around people, we think he was abused before he was taken to the animal shelter.  He is very clingy to his owner as well.  He does like me.  He is just an odd little guy.  He likes to lick plastic ALOT and didnt really know how to play until about a year ago.  

So we did normal intros, Harley and his owner stayed in the spare bedroom, kept him alone in there for a bit, I even got feliway calming plug ins in Harley's room and the room outside his room.  Did the whole scent thing, slow eating at the same time, slow see each other through door, let them see each others room etc.  Abby, my 2 yr old female took right to Harley, Harley is ok with her too, they hang out alot in Harley's room and she visits him all the time and plays with him.   (we leave the doors all open when we are at home so all cats can come and go as they wish, and Abby hangs with both cats equally)  So Milo, my 4 yr old Male, he seems to try and bully Harley alot.  Harley will try and wander out of his room and into the living room if we are all sitting out there, Milo will run towards him and Harley will freak out and run back into his room and onto the bed and stay there. It is like Milo is daring him to come out and when he does he bullies him back into his room and onto the bed.  Milo has chased him to the point where it would have been a cat fight had we not caught them before it happened, Harley will not fight back, just run.  He doesn't have claws either to defend himself.  

When we go and get Harley and walk around with him in main areas where all the cats can go, Harley huffs and hisses and growls (while we are holding him because he gets stressed).  I can take Milo and sit with him and pet him next to Harley in Harleys room on the bed, they just sit there and stare at each other but when I let Milo go he slinks off like he is gonna get in trouble.  If I take Harley into Milos bedroom, he  (Harley) freaks out and huffs and growls and gets upset 

Harley also has seizures so we try and not stress to much.  

Any suggestions?  I on occasoin will take both Milo and Harley into the bathroom and sit with them for 10-15 min, I sit between them and just let them "be" in the same room together.  They are both relaxed and just kind of watch each other.  If we are in the living room and Milo is asleep in "his chair" and Harley comes walking out, as long as we say Milooooo Miloooo be good as Harley walks by, he wont chase after him or try anything.  

It just seems hopeless at this point.  Its like they will never be able to be peaceful.  It has been about 9 weeks since Harley moved in with us.  

Any advice?  
 
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scarecrow5

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And a PS.....my routine has not changed with Milo and Abby, I still do the same things I always have and I have made sure they get the same amount of attention as always.  I also have been very tenative to Harley and so has his owner.  We both make sure we treat all cats the same and pay as much attention to them individually as we always have. 
 

thephcatlady

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Welcome to TCS! It sounds a lot like territorial issues, but I can't be sure. I hope someone can chime in soon.
 

orientalslave

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Some cats are simply not cut out for living with other cats but I can't work out from your information if Harley is one of those.  Certainly his life has been turned upside down, and as a fully declawed cat (which BTW is never, ever done in the UK) he may well feel comparatively vulnerable and it could take quite some time to settle him hin.

You do seem to have tried to introduce him slowly and correctly, but do NOT force them into each other's company.  You wouldn't like being made to sit next to someone you don't like. 

Personally I think you should consider consulting a properly qualified behaviourist who will visit, assess the situation and hopefully produce a plan to hopefully get them to tolerate each other.  It's quite likely that's as far as they will ever get.  Also I'm not sure treating them all equally is the right thing to be doing - they are not people, you can't rationalise with them, but again it's something the behaviourist should be able to advise on.

Have you thought about what you would do if the behaviourist initially advised rehoming one of the cats, or despite your best endeavours their behaviour modification plan didn't work and you had to either live with two cat households or rehome a cat?
 

mrsgreenjeens

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The only thing I can tell you is that walking around with either one of them hissing and growling is not helping the integration.  They  need to associate good things when they are together, and hissng and growling does not say "good things".  That appears to be re-enforcing the negative. 

When you have them both together in Harley's bedroom, they stare at each other, but no hissing, right?  Maybe that's the time to pet them, if they enjoy it, possible give them treats, maybe brush them...do whatever each one of them enjoys that will distract them from the staredown.  And don't make Milo stay there if he doesn't want to...at least not for long. 

And if Harley wander's into the living room when Milo is in there, can you possibly distract him with a toy, or a treat or something until Harley gets seated?  OR, what happened is Harley is there first and Milo comes in later...has that ever happened?  Is it peaceful?  I have to say that I completely understand how Harley might feel uncomfortable not being able to defend himself without any claws


BTW, when we integrated TWO new furkids into our household with two existing cats, it took FIVE MONTHS before our female resident stopped trying to attack the door to the safe room
.  I thought it would never happen.  She's still not really happy about it, but accepts them.  It's now been almost 4 years!  She has never cuddled with them, but she does play chase with them in a friendly way, and has never had a fight that we've had to break up, just a few hissy fits. 
 
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scarecrow5

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Hello again....thanks for the replies. 


I dont think rehoming one of my furkids would ever be an option....I just couldnt.  Them not getting along 100% isnt enough reason to do so as long as no one is getting hurt, I can deal with the avoiding each other.  I really hate that Harley is declawed, but it was what the vet recommend they do and it was done, this was before I met Harley.  I dont believe in declawing. 

I never really force them to be in the company...I mean I will take Milo in Harleys room and if Harley is laying on the bed I will sit Milo down on the bed and be between the two somewhat.  I usually have Milo stay for a few minutes then let him go if he wants....but when I do this, I talk to them both, pet them, play with them with a mutual toy etc.  I never take Harley into Milos room and do this because Harley gets to upset and hisses and huffs so that I dont do....its to "pushy". 

I guess I didnt mean treating them equally as it sounded...I mean...I dont pay any more attention to one cat than I do the other..routines with my guys have not changed or the attention they get...nor has Harleys mom treated him any differently.....but we both pay attention to each others cats too....we are not ignoring one or the other for the sake of making one more confortable.....if that makes sense. 

That does make sense about walking around with hissing and growling Mrsgreenjeens.  I dont do it often, I only do it to get Harley out of his room and a change of scenery.  We leave the door open when we are at home, but I work nights and sleep days, so at night he is in there with the door closed with his mom and during the day he is in there with the door shut while I sleep.  So he has the choice to come out in the afternoons.  So I just pretty much do it so he can see he is welcome to come out and to see something besides his bedroom. 

And yes...when I have them both in Harleys room on the bed, they stare....but no hissing and growling.  I also take them both in the bathroom (neutral place) and close the door and they just sit and stare at each other, no hissing or growling...I play with them, pet them etc during taht time.  So everyone is calm.    When Milo is in the living room and Harley walks in...we do disctract Milo with talk or toy or just walk over and pet him to keep him calm until Harley goes onto to wherever he wants.  Sometimes I will just get down on the floor with Harley and play with a long wand and Milo will join in.  As for what happens if Harley is in there first and Milo comes in...dont know yet...Milo is clingy to me (mommas boy) and usually where I am, Milo is...so usually when I am in the living room, Milo is in "his chair" also.  But....if Harley is in his room on the floor walking around and Milo walks in he cowers down.  :(  Harley stays on the bed most the time...he has his comfy cat bed and blankie up there.  

Five month seems like a long time.  They  moved in at the end of Jan. so it has been almost 2 months now. We are going on a trip Mid May and we hope all is settled by then....we dont want to confine poor Harley to just one room for an entire week.  Before we moved in together, Harley stayed in the bedroom in the apartment 80% if the time as it was...by choice.....we just dont want him to not have that choice to come out when he wants to because Milo bullies him. 

The funny thing is....Abby is soooooo crazy I was worried about her the most with all this....was afraid she would be the meanie.  I was sure wrong.  Little mousey momma i am scared of my own shadow all the time Milo was the one who became big and bad. 


I will go to the "introrduce myself secton" and post photos of the kiddos. 

Thanks again for the thoughts, and any other ideas would be greatly appriciated. 
 

mimi3908

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yeah, I agree with others here, the declawed cat feels very vulnerable - which is why we shouldn't declaw cats for any reason but that is off topic. Anyway, you probably should really take your time in introducing them due to Harley's situation. As long as Harley can be in a room where he can eat and poop without needing to cross Milo, then let it go on for a while longer - take months if you have too. Do the blanket swapping so they can get use to each other scents etc. No matter what though, even if they start to get along, they'll probably will get into skirmishes from time to time and hope Harley don't get too hurt over it. You might want to trim Milo's nails as a precaution. I would also play with them in the same room so they focus their attention on other objects and not each other. Once they get use to each other in the same room and focusing on other things, then they can start to get along. Also eventually allow them to eat in the same room but keep bowls far, then move them closer to each other over time. Eventually you should get there and hopefully Harley can overcome his fear of living with other cats. Good luck with everything.
 
 
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scarecrow5

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Just wanted to show a tiny tiny tinnnnnnyyyyyyy bit of progress.  I was on the bed with them all three tho however, but they stayed and hung out like that for a couple of hours, I had to help Harley out when he left (he was in their room this time).  Milo was good and watched but gave him a "look" when Harley got up.  Grumpy.  But it was nice when they were all together comfortably. 

 

mrsgreenjeens

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Any progress is good! 
  So...who's who? (in that picture?)
 
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scarecrow5

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Hi mrsgreenjeens....Milo is the dark spotted tabby, Abby is the little one in the middle, she is full grown, just small....and Harley is the orange n white guy at the end. Milo n Abby sleeps in there all the time in their beds on mine, they were already laying in there, i brought Harley and his bed on to see what would happen, it went good. I posted some better pics in the new to the block section.. =)
 
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