New Cat Picking on Older Cat - Advice Needed!

smurphy28

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Hello! I'm new here and need some advice.

We adopted our boy Pax when he was 8 weeks old 5 years ago. He's been great to us and we love him dearly. He's quirky and has his own style. He runs the show. When he wants to snuggle he snuggles when he doesn't he will be far away from us in his own area of the house. It's nice to know he's so independent yet still needs us and loves us back - on his terms.

My wife used to work from 4am to 1pm most days so the most he was home alone was only a few hours between our work schedules (8:30am to around 1:30pm - the perfect nap time). Recently, her shift has changed to normal hours getting in around 4:30pm. We figured we'd get him a friend to keep him company when we're away at work.

We went to the shelter and met a 3 year old all black male cat named Inky (We soon re-named him Cash like Johnny Cash the Man in Black). He was so easy going and laid back. We loved how he was happy to spend time with us and snuggle on our laps. The opposite of our cat it seemed. We thought they would get along and let Pax be the dominant cat without a problem.

After following all the rules in a few books we picked up we locked Cash in his own room in the office (he's currently napping in front of my monitor as I type). We rubbed each cat with a rag and swapped them so they could get each other's scent on them and eventually Pax started to become curious about Cash being in the office. A week later we opened the door a crack and a few times Pax hissed but that was about it. Eventually we let them meet and some slapping was happening but no hissing or spitting. We let them meet for 10 minutes a few times a day and then a little longer Soon enough Cash started to pick on Pax. He chases him all the time and Pax being older can't keep up so eventually Cash catches him and will start to hit him. Seems like typical cat behavior until tonight Pax was scratching on his post minding his own business when Cash came up and bit him on his side. He didn't break the skin - just got a mouth full of fur but we never have seen this kind of behavior before. We're very protective of Pax and we're pretty upset about this. Cash got sprayed with a water bottle and retreated but this was very disturbing. I don't know if these two will ever get along and it's been almost a month.

The shelter says if it continues for three months to bring Cash back but I love this little guy! Why can't they get along? Do you guys have any advice or are we stuck with them hating each other?

It's very depressing and really bums my wife and me out that they can't hangout together yet. We hate leaving Cash in the office all alone while we're in the living room or upstairs going to bed.

On a side note, both cats are caught up on their shots and are neutered. I thought that a female would have been a better pairing but the shelter said otherwise now I'm thinking I should have gone with my gut.

Do you guys have any advice? Everything I've read is about the OLDER cat picking on the NEW cat not the other way around!
 

pat traufield

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It is important to let the cats set the pace of progress in an introduction instead of the calendar. Only move to the next step when both cats are okay with the current step. You mention that when you cracked the door that Pax hissed which is not okay. Face slapping is not okay either.

Each time these cats have a dispute it sets their progress back. Imagine that you suddenly get a new roommate who is threatening you.

It is important to have each cat associate positive things with exposure to the other and also the end on a good note. For example you open the door a crack for about 2 seconds and before either cat can hiss you close the door again and give each cat a yummy yummy treat.

Keep careful watch on their eyes - look for pupil dialation which will show their moods immediately - if they grow to saucers close the door.

Take your time and be patient. Find several really good ways to reward each cat.

It is common for owners to want the current household animals to be "boss" but it is hard to determine heirarchy like that.
 

howtoholdacat

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I don't agree with the above comment. Hissing and slapping are normal for many cats. As long as no one is being hurt, it's in the cat's best interest to let them find their own way. If skin is being broken it's time to step in. As hard as it is, it's not for you to decide how their relationship plays out. That's up to them. Give them some time and space and let them sort it out. It's easy to forget that they are adults and know how cat relationships are supposed to work when we're so engaged in their well being. If you think they need some help, grab some Feliway diffusers and add them to the mix. Also, for two of my cats who aren't exactly best friends, I feed them side by side. It's helped tremendously. Patience, time and letting them find their own way (so long as no one is hurt) will pay off dividends in the long run.
 

taryn

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Maude would see the need to hiss and swat at Attitude and Nuts on occasion, it's how they worked out hierarchy. Hissing and swatting are totally normal, as long as no one gets hurt let them work it out on their own. Even after months one would get on her nerves and she'd hiss and smack them, totally normal, nothing serious just letting them know to knock it off. Mama, their grandma, does the same thing if another cat steps out of line she lets it be known that that doesn't fly with her.

Attitude and Nuts sometimes get to it and Attitude might hiss and they might slap each other. They are siblings and have been together since birth. I will say Nuts sometimes bites Attitude so hard she cries and that usually provokes a hiss or a swat or a growl.

Now since I have had them since birth I know Nuts just plays too hard. He has done this to his other litter mates when he was outside. I think he doesn't realize how hard he can bite. Since Attitude has started standing up for herself more it has decreased and she bites back now.

There is no blood and they are not serious, they are playing when they do this. If they were serious there would be blood and fur everywhere. There are no claws, and I can tell they are playing. Attitude has rolled onto her back while doing this with Nuts(no cat in a serious fight would willingly show their belly to their opponent.)

Is it possible that Cash was playing? Some cats just play too rough, I know Nuts is one. If no one is getting hurt then I'd let it proceed(obviously a squirt of water works for some, Nuts is a little thick headed and doesn't respond to it.) It honestly sounds like Cash wants to play more than he's purposely being mean to Pax. If there is no blood and no claws then chances are it's play. Pax just needs to be given the time to start standing up to Cash, Attitude has just recently started standing up to Nuts(I think she finally figured out she's bigger than him.)

Don't read too much into it, let them be together when you are home, if one does something inappropriate that cat gets a 'time-out.' To me biting with no blood and especially no reaction from the other cat is a normal thing(I see the outside cats doing it as well, no one but Nuts seems to have an issue of biting too hard.) Honestly if there is no one being injured(ie- blood or a serious fight) then let them work it out. Personally unless I thought there was going to be a real fight I'd let them be together even when I wasn't there.

Taryn
 
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smurphy28

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Thanks for the advice everyone! So you're saying this is normal? Here's some video I shot of them "playing" this evening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8wu5...=youtube_gdata

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZO-H...=youtube_gdata

The other day it seemed a little more violent though. No blood and no one seemed to get hurt but some of the meowing and crying made it seem like they were hurt. At one point Cash's paw was in Pax's mouth and Cash was holding a good part of Pax's fur in his mouth. They like to go into the basement to do this. It's so odd to me.

Cash will constantly jump and pounce on Pax. It seems like Pax wants to get away but I don't know. Sometimes Cash will lie on his back antagonizing Pax to jump on him and vice versa. Is this normal stuff? It seems so violent - it freaks my wife out. We haven't let them out alone together yet. We've been supervising. When do you think we can let them hangout at night together? Are they going to keep us up all night long?
 

howtoholdacat

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Complete and total play. Good news! They seem to like each other. In the first video Pax may have been mildly annoyed but no one was angry, hurt or upset. Congrats! You have successfully integrated Cash.

By the way, I too have an all black cat who wears a white color and my husband loves to pick on me and he calls it his "emo" collar!
 
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smurphy28

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Thanks Jennifer. Here's another video of them playing. Seems a little more violent. My wife hates this. I think it's normal for them to act like this so she keeps Cash in the office still. They seem to do this all the time though. Maybe it's because they are not around each other 24/7?

 

girlsetsfiyah

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This is how my two "play" as well!

The funny thing is...it's most always Jubbs initiating the play, he's pretty spunky for a 13 year old! When Lazarus gets annoyed by him, he'll usually hiss, ending the play time. However, I think Lazarus has made himself alpha-cat, and this is just fine with Jubbs (he's just happy to have someone to play with again!)

Sometimes they can get a bit too carried away and it gets out of hand, I'll separate them in different rooms for a few minutes to cool down. (No yelling or squirting them, mind you, just pick them up without saying anything and place them in the separate room has worked well for me) But I can't say I've seen a fight get extremely violent (ie. like toms scrapping over a female!).

It's just a matter of watching body signals (ears, eyes, tail, posture). Instead of squirting, loud noises seem to help me morewith getting them to scatter (can with pennies, clapping loud, etc)

Best of luck, but they look like they're getting along well already!
 

howtoholdacat

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Originally Posted by smurphy28

Thanks Jennifer. Here's another video of them playing. Seems a little more violent. My wife hates this. I think it's normal for them to act like this so she keeps Cash in the office still. They seem to do this all the time though. Maybe it's because they are not around each other 24/7?

They're still playing but Pax is annoyed with Cash at the beginning of your video. By the end, they're just doing normal cat play. That's an excellent sign because it shows that though he was annoyed, Pax is willing to play and the annoyance doesn't escalate into anger or violence. Were they my kitties, I'd let them be together all the time. You might find that they find a better balance where Pax isn't annoyed but I know from my own kitties, the younger typically does annoy the older from time to time!
 

howtoholdacat

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Here's what a cat fight looks like. See how their behaviors are different from what Pax and Cash do? These cats flick their tails angrily. You'll even notice the one that looks down, swallows and licks his lips. That's another sign of discomfort. When he jumps on the other cat it's like a lightning strike. No swatting pats or gentle rolling around in this video! Hope this helps!
 
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