Neighbor Wants My Cats Dead Over Poop

[tararaboomdea]

Been almost three years, still the same problem. Neighbor complaining about cat poop in her backyard - my little devils are the accused. Meanwhile, I've never seen this woman come screaming out of her house as other neighbors walking their dogs poop and pee on her lawn (I'm sure they pick up the poop.)

She demands that I keep them in or she'll call animal control to "have them euthanized."

I've given her super soakers, cans of compressed air and offered to buy electronic/whatever animal deterrents to solve the problem. I've never been nasty in my responses, online or in person. I've tried to placate her as best I could, but we have differing points of view. She demands that I keep them in, but they fight if I do. She has two big dogs (rarely see her walk them) and two indoor cats.

We're going to move, which is easy because we rent. I suspect our being renters may be part of the problem. She's being watching us from day one, I'm sure, even though I was oblivious.

I think she also might like her drinkies a little too much because of the way the nasty messages are written and usually posted in the evening.

Well, we had already decided to leave. I just have to keep her and animal control at bay until then.

Mea culpa: I have eight cats. Our lease allows any number of pets, so I'm okay there. As far as animal control goes, I'm two over the limit. I didn't want this many, that's what happened. I've told the neighbor that if I hadn't taken in these kittens and paid to get them fixed, there would be hundreds of them in her yard crapping away now.

 

[Willowy]

Check out the local ordinances. If cats are allowed to run loose in your town, Animal Control won't do anything. If there's an ordinance saying they have to stay on your property. . .well, then they've got you. I suppose if you're moving there's no point in building an enclosure now, but that's an option for the future.

In the US, pets are considered property. Which doesn't provide proper protection for the pets, IMO, but certainly has the benefit that they can't remove the cats from your care without due process. Which I'm sure you could stretch out until you move. Make sure their rabies shots are up-to-date and they're all microchipped (most shelters will do it at cost), so you can prove ownership.

Have you offered to go poop scoop her yard? If she just wants to scream then she probably wouldn't accept that, but it would be a nice gesture.

 

[tararaboomdea]

Great points, Willowy. Thank you. AFAIK, no restrictions about staying on the property, so we're good there.

I hadn't thought about the fact that they're mine, and that they just can't take them. I guess I'll just have to go through this with her again - she attacks, I placate her, she responds with "I'm an animal lover and I don't want to see anything bad happens to them" - right.

You know, I thought of going over and doing pooper scooper duty, but then I thought I wouldn't want her over here if the situation was reversed. It is a nice gesture. I think I might offer anyway and hope she declines because I don't want to be around her at all. I've got at least 20 years on her and when I was a kid you would never be so rude to a person so much older (I'm 63.) I think she has a screw loose.

 

[thatfilmgirl]

I'd be very worried about her doing something about the cats if she sees them. There are really terrible and cruel people out there and this person sounds like one of them.

 

[tararaboomdea]

I'd be very worried about her doing something about the cats if she sees them. There are really terrible and cruel people out there and this person sounds like one of them.

Worrisome, right? How can you have animals of your own and talk like this? I think it's drunk evil twin, not entirely sure why I feel that way. If this skirmish is like the ones in the past, the next message will be much different in tone, full of concern for the cats, but not backing off entirely.

 

[rubysmama]

I have to admit, as the "mama" to an indoor only kitty, it does annoy me when I have to clean up cat poop in my backyard. So I can understand both yours, and your neighbour's, points of view.

I guess if you'll be moving soon, it's just a case of trying to placate her a bit longer.

Do you have litter boxes in your apartment that they can use? Or are they the type of cats that have to go outside to do their "business".

 

[tararaboomdea]

I have to admit, as the "mama" to an indoor only kitty, it does annoy me when I have to clean up cat poop in my backyard. So I can understand both yours, and your neighbour's, points of view.

I guess if you'll be moving soon, it's just a case of trying to placate her a bit longer.

Do you have litter boxes in your apartment that they can use? Or are they the type of cats that have to go outside to do their "business".

They're equal opportunity depositors - they use the boxes and our yard and allegedly her yard. I haven't brought up that there are plenty of stray cats wandering around the neighborhood. They might also be making a contribution. I hope she wouldn't be complaining if she hadn't actually seen them doing it. I can't tell many of them apart (black or b/w) until I really look.

She's got cameras everywhere. She messaged me from Arizona because she saw a cat on her property (we're in Vegas.) Random neighbors walk their dogs on her lawn - nothing - but she knows where I am. When we first got here, she told me she would go out driving late at night around the neighborhood, on patrol as it were, looking for people who don't live here (there are porch pirates --> home invasions, like many urban areas.)

Our lease ends nine months from now. I look at this as a short time since I have so much to do (finding a place, packing, cleaning.) I'm sure she won't, but I'm not volunteering that information.

Ah, she just responded: "Are you taking all the cats when you leave?" I hear that as "Are you abandoning them?" Odd thing for an animal lover to ask. I treat them like gold. Now I am worried about her doing something to them.

I don't know how to respond to a weird question like that. This chick is psycho.

 

[rubysmama]

Tough situation, for sure. I hope the the next 9 months will be calm and uneventful for you, and that you find a great new home for you and your feline family.

 

[tararaboomdea]

Thank you. I just wrote back to her. I said I don't recall ever being so angry and told her not to message me again, that I've been nothing but cordial and yet I get these nasty, curse-filled messages.

I asked her if she was going to hurt the cats.
I asked her how she handles dogs peeing all over her lawn? Why doesn't she run out and yell at their owners?
I asked her is it because we're renters? (The snobbery is real.)

I told her if we have to speak I want it kept short and in person. And that it would be over soon. And that, for my part, I am sorry.

 

[LTS3]

Can you put a temporary large catio in your yard connected to the house via a window so the cats can be outdoors but not in the neighbor's yard?

 

[tararaboomdea]

That's my dream. To build a lovely catio for their health and safety. Distinct possibility if we buy.

I'm all thumbs and my husband doesn't have time to do regular stuff. He works at MB/Vegas (don't like to spell it out.) He arrived at work 15 minutes before the shooting started. Since then there's been a lot of overtime.

 

[tararaboomdea]

Well, I think I've got a bigger problem than I realized. I'll be lucky to make it through the nine months. She has been campaigning against me to the neighbors. I have never heard from them. She keeps repeating that I have 17 cats - never - and now I'm sure that's what she's saying to them.

She says that other neighbors have been complaining about the cats, they just don't tell me. I only know one of them besides this bitch, so that's not surprising that I did not know.

I must be from another planet. Other places we've lived, anytime a neighbor's or a stray cat showed up at our house, we'd pet and feed them. We weren't annoyed in the least. It's such a different point of view.

 

[RosesNoThorns]

To be honest where I live letting your cats roam and poop in other people's yards gets you a couple hundred dollars in fines and/or confiscated cats.

We do have ferals here and we're working on TNR the local colonies, but outdoor unsupervised cats are a nuisance and as much as I love cats I can see why your neighbour would be upset. Is she handling this poorly and being weird? Yes. But at the same time your cats fighting indoors doesn't mean you hoist them on the neighbourhood to deal with. I'm of the opinion that if it's not ok to do with dogs, it's not ok to do with cats.

Do messed up things happen where I live to roaming cats? Yup. I'll spare you the details but it isn't pretty.

Right now you've got a bad situation brewing. You're over your legal limit of pets (not sure about your local laws---but where I live animal control can enter your home and take them/inspect at leisure not to mention fine you heavily and you can't do anything), you've got roaming outdoor kitties AND the neighbours are getting fed up/are talking amongst themselves. Could it be the local strays? Absolutely. But if nobody can tell your cats apart/apart from the strays it doesn't matter. Like you said, it could be your cats anyway, you don't know.

If I were you I would be finding a way to keep everyone indoors. Even if it meant separate rooms for everyone. Even if they're only indoors partially (in separated rooms) and then let out (supervised) perhaps on harnesses and long tie-outs. But kitties have to stop leaving your yard if they go outdoors.

 

[danteshuman]

I think :
#1 Have you tried the olive branch approach? Writing her nice letter with a bottle of wine? Include all your cats names & pictures. If she was pet free I could understand her wanting you to pick up the poo. Also our semi feral buries his poo, I never see it. If that doesn't work.....
#2 Start campaigning to your entire neighborhood. You should write out your story and include pictures/names of each cat/how you got them etc... (If you are under the limit.) I also would suggest re-homing a few at no kill shelters or maybe in the neighborhood. Basically go out there, meet your neighbors, tell them everything you have done. Also tell them your plans to move in 9 months.
#3 Cease all verbal communication and ignore her besides emailing her once giving her links on how to make your yard unappealing to cats. It takes two people to play tug of war. Stop playing.
#4 Is her yard different then yours? If they prefer soft flower beds or bark to do their business in... give that choice in your yard.
#5 If she does anything else or keeps harassing you, you may want to take legal action to get her to stop. Some people are only happy if they are making other people miserable. All her emails & notes you saved (plus what you have sent) will come in handy for this. If you write her that nice letter photo copy it & maybe take a picture of it with the wine on her doorstep.
#6 Talk to your landlord. They may have moved because of her.
#7Ask your landlord if you could put up temporary fence extenders to make escaping your yard more difficult. I'm not touching the indoor/outdoor cat thing. However I would worry if my neighbor was like that. What if one day she poisoned my boys?

 

[tararaboomdea]

First, a comment: IDK, do people really love animals, or only their own animals, or only love animals if they're not too much trouble? People carry on about the unconditional love animals have for us, yet some people have so many conditions in regard to animals. I try to love them unconditionally, so much of our furniture looks like shredded wheat. I didn't like that couch much anyway.
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As far as further communication with my neighbor, I'm afraid the damage has already been done. The last few message exchanges were very unpleasant. I agree, RosesNoThorns - I feel a bad situation brewing, too. I'll aim a charm offensive at the neighbors, apologize in advance if one of our cats arrives and offends them in any way and say we leaving soon - just bear with us.

As for tootsabelle across the street, I tried to accommodate her demands. As it turned out, that just encouraged her to make more demands.
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I realize this may not be a popular opinion, but I don't think a cat's life is truly good unless they can be outdoors, despite the danger. Their joy when outside is a sight to behold. From across the street my neighbor's cats in the window watch mine play on our front lawn. I'm probably imaging it, but they look sad. I'm aware of the pitfalls - to keep them safe, my dream is to have a large catio or, even better, a cat-proof fenced backyard (if that's possible.)

Thanks, everybody, for the advice. if our neighbor was sane, and perhaps not already tipsy, the wine (thanks, danteshuman) would have been a nice gesture. No help coming from our landlord who is a greedy person who just raised our rent $200 for a substandard reno. I have no interest in talking to her after I lost the fight over the increase (that's why we decided to move.) I realize there is no answer for ourselves and our cats in a sea of dog loving neighbors and an uptight bitch. I hope we can slink off, catlike, without further incident.

 

[RosesNoThorns]

I don't think it's fair or right to say that you can only truly love an animal if you permit them to be a nuisance and badly-behaved. If anything it is only in that animal's benefit to be managed/taught in a way that they're not allowed to be a nuisance.

Much like kids, honestly.

I know and respect Rose for what and who she is, as a cat. Heck I lived with my girl Jacko (an african grey) for 13 years---I am very familiar with accommodating the essence of a what a creature is. So I know that Rose will need to scratch and in doing so lay down scent around her territory for example. Likewise I know it's part of maintaining her claws and stretching her body. It doesn't mean she's allowed to do it on all of my furniture or shred my boots or the walls. Instead I redirect her to more appropriate outlets and alternatives and make sure that her environment isn't setting her up to fail.
Same with letting her meow or run around all night with jingle balls and wake up my neighbours.
Goddess forbid something ever happened to me, but if Rose has been conditioned to channel those needs (scratching, play, litterbox use etc) appropriately and accept regular grooming routines she will have a much, much easier time finding a new guardian. Letting her run wild because she might seem happier that way dooms her to a likely early death.

All that said, I think there's two different issues here:

1) I have the idea that if I love an animal I will let them behave however they want or else I don't truly love them
2) This idea means my neighbours must deal with it

It is all well and good that you are ok with a shredded couch/impose less limits on them.
It is absolutely fine that you think your cats are happier/only fulfilled with outdoor access.

What isn't ok is that you think your neighbours have to abide by that as well.
They didn't sign up for this or agree to this.
Your cats can go outside all you like *if* they stay in your yard. If you can't guarantee this then the kitty's happiness doesn't supersede your neighbours' right to not have nuisance animals/poop/pee or whatever on their properties.
Kinda like yeah, kids should be allowed to play outside and it's good for them, but if you can't keep your kids from rampaging through the neighbour's yards/vandalizing/etc....then your kids need to stay indoors or only be out of the house while being supervised/controlled in some way.

It doesn't matter if you feel like you're from a different planet and you'd just feed/love on a stray/roaming cat, they've told you what they want on their own properties.
Yes I know there's feral/stray cats---but feral/stray cats are closer to raccoons and other 'nuisance wildlife' that could in theory be trapped/relocated/removed. You however, are the guardian of these cats who is deciding to let them be a nuisance and trespass.

 

[orange&white]

Are all 8 of these cats animals which you took in from your neighborhood as ferals/strays? I think that is different than if you had adopted 8 domestic kittens and then let them roam all over the neighborhood. These would be essentially community cats who you've spayed/neutered and fed, very similar to managing a feral colony. Have you socialized them all to where you would consider them “domesticated”?

If there is an animal control legal limit of 6 cats, then you probably do need to find a way to relocate 2 cats or see if a no-kill shelter or feral rescue will take them. The limit may be different if you are managing a neighborhood colony.

I would double-check your city/county laws to see what the regulations are about roaming cats. In post #3 you wrote “as far as you know” the cats are not legally restricted to the owners' property. I would make absolutely certain you are legally allowed to have your cats go off your property. That does not prevent a neighbor from poisoning them or calling animal control, but at least gives you a good legal standing. There may also be a separate ordinance pertaining to property-owners' rights with what they are allowed to do if a roaming animal is on their property. Sometimes ordinances conflict. Make certain you are on the right side of city/county ordinances and laws.

My bottom-line advice is to arm yourself with knowledge of the details and specifics of your laws and ordinances and make absolutely sure you are in good standing. Until then, I wouldn't entertain further conversation with the neighbor.

 

[danteshuman]

Are your cats microchipped? That way if they get lost or caught they will be returned to you.