Need well tolerated meats Ritz is sick

[ritz]

Ritz is sick. She was diagnosed with FLUTD Friday morning (by a relief vet--not her normal one) after a worsening of symptoms, including not urinating for 18 hours and gassy, runny stools. Vet gave her a shot of Metacam as an anti-inflammatory. There wasn't enough urine in her bladder to obtain a urine sample. Had a nice pee Saturday morning, finally.
BUT since late Thursday she's been having gassy, runny stools. Originally I thought it was from the raw kidney and cat grass I gave her that morning. So of course no more of either any time soon. She's not eating any bone, partly because she won't eat the commercial raw that does have bone in it, partly because she doesn't have the jaw strength yet.
Her appetite is decreased, though I sense she has some interest in food.
Are there any more tolerated meats, organs, non-organs than others? I'm defrosting chicken wings and chicken hearts; she loves chicken hearts.
Obviously if the gassy, loose stools continue, I will take her again to the vets on Monday. But in the meantime, any advice?

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Ritz

Ritz is sick. She was diagnosed with FLUTD Friday morning (by a relief vet--not her normal one) after a worsening of symptoms, including not urinating for 18 hours and gassy, runny stools. Vet gave her a shot of Metacam as an anti-inflammatory. There wasn't enough urine in her bladder to obtain a urine sample. Had a nice pee Saturday morning, finally.
BUT since late Thursday she's been having gassy, runny stools. Originally I thought it was from the raw kidney and cat grass I gave her that morning. So of course no more of either any time soon. She's not eating any bone, partly because she won't eat the commercial raw that does have bone in it, partly because she doesn't have the jaw strength yet.
Her appetite is decreased, though I sense she has some interest in food.
Are there any more tolerated meats, organs, non-organs than others? I'm defrosting chicken wings and chicken hearts; she loves chicken hearts.
Obviously if the gassy, loose stools continue, I will take her again to the vets on Monday. But in the meantime, any advice?

Yeah, for one, if she gave you Metacam to take home, toss it in the trash immediately. I would never, ever let a vet again give Metacam to a cat of yours again.... It is not approved by the FDA for cats, in any dosage, as it has been linked to several deaths for Kidney failure. Metacam injections has been approved for one dose PER LIFETIME during spay or bone surgery.
As far as diet, PM AuntieCrazy - another alternative is to put her in a prescription canned urinary diet for the moment - you can get it from your vet

 

[ritz]

The vet gave her a shot/injection of Metacam. Based on my reading, she is showing some adverse side effects--15 hours after the shot.
I called the e-vet (who feeds raw, just like me). She said, monitor her, bring her in tomorrow if she still hasn't eaten. See if she will eat chicken, chicken hearts (she threw up pork, a fairly well tolerated meat), and maybe freeze dried salmon as an appetite enhancer.
And, yeah, no more Metacam.

 

[auntie crazy]

Hi, Cindy!

It's a rare cat that can tolerate an entire meal of organ meats without either vomiting it back up or encountering loose stools, however, if Ritz isn't eating any, or very little bone, it's a given her stools will be loose.

I thought you were feeding her two meals a day of Primal Quail and one meal a day of fresh plain meat, but your pm mentions two ounces of commercial raw and three ounces of frankenprey raw. Given this scenario, Ritz needs to eat bone-in meals or you need to give her a calcium supplement, such as ground eggs shells, until she can.

Eggs shells as short-term bone-in meal substitute: Rinse well with plain water and peel the membranes off. Dry by setting out overnight or oven baking for 30 minutes (must be completely dried to avoid potential mold issues). Grind or crush into powder with coffee bean grinder, mortar and pestle, or food processor (all new or very thoroughly cleaned first). Sprinkle very lightly over cat's food at 1/2 teaspoon per pound of plain raw meat eaten per week.

At 3 ounces of frankenprey raw per day - or 21 ounces per week - Ritz should be eating the following:

Bone: About half an ounce (not more) of bone a day or an ounce of bone every other day OR about an eighth of teaspoon of egg shell powder each day (again, no more).

Liver: About a quarter of an ounce per day, or half an ounce every other day.

Kidney or other organ: About a quarter of an ounce per day, or half an ounce every other day.

The rest of that 21 ounces in fresh, raw meats.

You mention chicken hearts a lot - keep in mind that, while a great source of taurine, heart is also comparatively high in sodium and shouldn't be a daily meal. To paraphrase - A single chicken heart per day, great!; a whole meal of chicken hearts (or any other kind of heart) per day, not so great.

Another alternative for you would be to forgo the frankenprey for now and fed Ritz a rotation of commercial raw foods (rotating commercial raw foods has all the same benefits as rotating canned food products). Once Ritz has had at least a full month where she was on a stable diet (write the rotation down and repeat the same pattern over and over) AND has not had any dietary-related issues, then you could start easing her over to a frankenprey diet again.

Hope this helps!

AC

P.S. How did you know Ritz hadn't peed in 18 hours? It seems a bit odd that at the end of that time period, she didn't have any urine in her bladder. How did the vet explain that?

 

[auntie crazy]

I meant to add that FLUTD isn't a specific problem or disease as much as a catch-all term to indicate a propensity. Per Dr. Hofve via littlebigcat.com Urinary Tract Disorders in Cats:

“Feline lower urinary tract disorders” (commonly referred to as FLUTD, LUTD, or FUS–feline urologic syndrome) come in at least three distinct varieties. All of them put together affect less than 3% of cats, but for those who are affected, it can be a major problem. Bladder diseases occur in both male and female cats, although males have a higher risk of life-threatening blockage of the urethra. It is usually first seen in cats between 2 and 7 years of age (though some very young and very old cats may develop signs). Episodes of FLUTD are usually triggered by stress, such as home remodeling, parties, severe weather, or loss or addition of a family member. These problems are also more common in the spring and fall and after major holidays.

The article is pretty descriptive, including more discussion around causes as well as treatment options, and well worth the read.

AC

 

[ritz]

This helps a lot. Thanks for your detailed response.
I am still giving her 1/8 tsp of acidifier.
Last question first: Based on what I found in the litter box, she had not peed for 18 hours. Murphyâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s law being what it is, during the six hours while I was at work, she peed some (in the litter box). When I took her to the vet that afternoon, her bladder was empty and she was well hydrated. The vet made the assumption that she was peeing, just not in the litter box. (And, he couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t get a urine sample to run tests, though he suspects nothing would be found.)
I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t feed Ritz an entire meal of organ meat; Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m lucky if sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll eat any, which is why I bribe her with one chicken heart or, more recently, freeze dried salmon (she loves it, and it has Omega 3). So far the only non-organ meat she likes is kidney. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not optimistic about the beef tripe I got her. Do you have any other NOM better liked than others?
She becoming less interested in commercial raw and more interested in raw, which is why the ratio is 3 to 4 oz of Raw and 1 or CM, i.e., 5 ounces a day. I would like to reduce that to 4 or 4.5 oz depending on her weight. I do have some CR rabbit (has no produce or grain) which Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll try tomorrow. I am trying to rotate the meat so she doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t become fixated on one protein source (like she did with the seafood). Are Cornish Hens/Chicken/Turkey different enough? Sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s had lamb before and beef, and liked it. Pork, too but based on her reaction, holding off on that source of protein.
Thanks also for the amounts. And to clarify: it is 3 oz of raw PLUS bone+liver+kidney which is an additional ounce, i.e., a total of 4 oz?
Very early this morning she had two incidents of runny stool, about a pinky fingerâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s amount. Not too smelly. Later she finally ate meat/liver/and bone from a Cornish Hen ( chicken wing tip and part of the upper thigh bone that I beat to death with a hammer), Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m guessing about ½ oz. So far, sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s kept it in her. Is there any other condition/allergy that might be causing runny stools—some weird worm from the pork I gave her?
I am drying egg shells. I removed most of the membrane but just wondering, why does it have to be removed, too? She has gingivitus, so really want her to get use to eating bone.
Finally, Ritz weighed 10 pounds 7 ounces at the vets on Friday; ten days ago on my pet scale, she weighed the same. In May she weighed 11 pounds 8 oz. The vet said her weight was “fine†but wants me to weigh her every three weeks to monitor it.
Thank you so very much.

 

[ritz]

FLUTD: thanks, I'll read this.
The first UTI occurred in May/June when I had a lot of repairmen making a lot of noise in a five day period. This latest incident occurred right after I went on a five day vacation. So in Ritz's case, it's stress induced.
Have Feliway and got some Bach's remedy, which I hope will help.
My friend (who rescued Ritz) is an accupuncturist, so I hope to go that route as well.
God help me if she also has IBS...

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Ritz

This helps a lot. Thanks for your detailed response.
I am still giving her 1/8 tsp of acidifier.
Last question first: Based on what I found in the litter box, she had not peed for 18 hours. Murphy’s law being what it is, during the six hours while I was at work, she peed some (in the litter box). When I took her to the vet that afternoon, her bladder was empty and she was well hydrated. The vet made the assumption that she was peeing, just not in the litter box. (And, he couldn’t get a urine sample to run tests, though he suspects nothing would be found.)

Ritz - Call the E-vet NOW. /She could be blocked. The main reason for the Metacam is for the inflammation to subside and also as a pain medication so the kitty can pee regularly pretty fast. (unfortunately e-vets push Metacam, you need to push back for another form of pain meds... but too late now....)
This is not normal at all. Two possible things here: either your kitty is still in pain, in which case you need to go back for pain medicine (NO Metacam - get another one), or, your kitty is blocked - this can be deadly.
Do not wait - call now.
I would be inclined to take her to the e-vet if you can't find urine anywhere and get an x-ray to see her bladder....

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Ritz

...So in Ritz's case, it's stress induced.
Have Feliway and got some Bach's remedy, which I hope will help.
My friend (who rescued Ritz) is an accupuncturist, so I hope to go that route as well.
God help me if she also has IBS...

Ritz has no symptoms at all of IBS. Since it's usually kibble-fed and / or high-carb fed cats who suffer from this and since putting them on their natural diet of raw foods nearly always addresses the problem, I wouldn't even spend two seconds thinking about this.

Feliway is awesome stuff and can have an amazingly remarkable influence on cats. For it to be most effective, however, you need one plug-in per average-sized room (in case you weren't aware). Amazon.com has the best multi-pack prices I've come across.

AC

P.S. Working on your other previous post now.

 

[furryfriends50]

Originally Posted by Ritz

The vet gave her a shot/injection of Metacam. Based on my reading, she is showing some adverse side effects--15 hours after the shot.
I called the e-vet (who feeds raw, just like me). She said, monitor her, bring her in tomorrow if she still hasn't eaten. See if she will eat chicken, chicken hearts (she threw up pork, a fairly well tolerated meat), and maybe freeze dried salmon as an appetite enhancer.
And, yeah, no more Metacam.

Maybe she didn't tolerate pork because it is actually a fairly fatty meat, which could have not agreed with her stomach at this point.

Chicken & turkey are both mild meat, at least I would consider them to be. Cornish Game Hen is actually just a small chicken, so it is no differant, other than the bones being a better size for cats.

If you can get it, quail should also be fairly well tolerated.

 

[ritz]

Good point about the fatty pork. Prior to transitioning Ritz to raw/commercial raw, she ate a relatively low fat/carb diet of Fancy Feast (the operative term being, relative).
I can get quail at an international food market.
Any reason I SHOULDN'T get "previously frozen" quail?
Also, I have access to ground raw venison. I don't know who ground it, but my nephew and friend shot the deer a year ago. Should I say "thanks for no thanks"?

 

[auntie crazy]

Originally Posted by Ritz

...
I am still giving her 1/8 tsp of acidifier.

Why? Her problem has been identified as stress-induced, her urine ph was within the normal range, and a raw, meat-based diet is naturally acidifying. Did you speak with the raw-feeding vet about this?

Originally Posted by Ritz

Last question first: Based on what I found in the litter box, she had not peed for 18 hours. Murphyâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s law being what it is, during the six hours while I was at work, she peed some (in the litter box). When I took her to the vet that afternoon, her bladder was empty and she was well hydrated. The vet made the assumption that she was peeing, just not in the litter box. (And, he couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t get a urine sample to run tests, though he suspects nothing would be found.)

This makes MUCH more sense. (And is, in fact, what I thought was the most likely scenario.)

You will need to find where she peed (a black-light can help with this) and clean it with an enzyme-containing solution (like Nature's Miracle or Nok-Out) so she doesn't continue peeing there even after the current cystitis flare-up is resolved.

Originally Posted by Ritz

I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t feed Ritz an entire meal of organ meat; Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m lucky if sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll eat any, which is why I bribe her with one chicken heart or, more recently, freeze dried salmon (she loves it, and it has Omega 3). So far the only non-organ meat she likes is kidney. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not optimistic about the beef tripe I got her. Do you have any other NOM better liked than others?

I only feed my cats chicken or turkey liver and beef kidney.

Green tripe is considered muscle meat for raw-feeding purposes, not organ, and contains a comparatively lower nutrient profile than most other meats, so should only be fed maybe once a week. (White tripe has been "bleached" and shouldn't be fed at all.)

Sprinkling freeze-dried chicken over the foods should help entice Ritz to eat what you want her to eat and is probably a better option than salmon. Also, all six of my cats find it irresistible, while other freeze-dried meat treats (cod, beef, etc.) are hit or miss.

If you want a frankenprey Omega 3 source, try feeding a single sardine once a week. It can either be frozen, or canned in water with no salt added.

Originally Posted by Ritz

...
I would like to reduce that to 4 or 4.5 oz depending on her weight.

Why? The vet said her weight is fine and 5 ounces per day is exactly right for a 10.5 pound cat, at 3% of her body weight.

Originally Posted by Ritz

I do have some CR rabbit (has no produce or grain) which Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll try tomorrow. I am trying to rotate the meat so she doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t become fixated on one protein source (like she did with the seafood). Are Cornish Hens/Chicken/Turkey different enough? Sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s had lamb before and beef, and liked it. Pork, too but based on her reaction, holding off on that source of protein.

Rotating is good. Keep trying with the pork - there are so very many causes for vomiting besides an (IMO unlikely) intolerance potential.

Originally Posted by Ritz

Thanks also for the amounts. And to clarify: it is 3 oz of raw PLUS bone+liver+kidney which is an additional ounce, i.e., a total of 4 oz?

No. Those amounts are based on the amount of fresh raw (non-commercial) meat meals you said you were offering every day... in other words, the three ounces.

Originally Posted by Ritz

Very early this morning she had two incidents of runny stool, about a pinky fingerâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s amount. Not too smelly. Later she finally ate meat/liver/and bone from a Cornish Hen ( chicken wing tip and part of the upper thigh bone that I beat to death with a hammer), Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m guessing about ½ oz. So far, sheâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s kept it in her. Is there any other condition/allergy that might be causing runny stools—some weird worm from the pork I gave her?

Pork is perfectly safe unless you live in a third world country.

In an earlier post, you said Ritz isn't eating bone. Not eating any bone and not eating ENOUGH bone will always result in soft to runny stool. No need to go looking for further problems until you correct the obvious one.

Originally Posted by Ritz

I am drying egg shells. I removed most of the membrane but just wondering, why does it have to be removed, too?...

I have no idea, as it's considered a temporary measure and is not a topic I've researched very deeply.

AC

 

[ritz]

AC, thanks again for responding.
Good news, no soft stool this morning, or, for that matter, any stools, which is actually normal for her.
The relief/substitute vet wasn't a pro-raw vet, only one who didn't act in horror when I told him I was feeding raw. He told me to keep on giving her the acidifier based on her last urine test. The vet suspected the urine sample would be "sterile", meaning anti-biotics are not indicated.
Without hesitation I will take her back to the vets if problems persist. With a stool sample, and early in the morning so the vet can obtain the urine sample Her regular vet returns Wednesday (though frankly I liked his substitute better).
I tossed the BLEACHED (horrors!) tripe.
I'll keep on feeding her the kidney as the Other organ meat, maybe mix it up among meats, e.g., chicken, turkey, beef.
For Omega 3, I'll get the sardine. I'd rather a natural food source than a pill, any day.
I'll try the raw pork in a day or two. Rotating raw: beef/chicken [hen]/pork. I also have some raw lamb, I think. And the CR rabbit (which I can't find raw).
For now, I'll stick with 5 oz, combined raw and commercial raw and, per the vet, check her weight in three weeks. It's a crap-shot whether she'll eat CR any one day, which is why some times I end up feeding her 4R/1CR. Though last night I 'stuck to my guns' and she eventually ate 1 ounce of CR Quail. And 1/2 oz of Quail this morning. (No more bone until I estimate Wednesday). Proof will be in the pudding, so to speak.
Believe it or not, once I get the confusion in my mind about quantities and when/what cleared up, I am really good about organizing and monitoring. Ice cube trays, Zip lock bags and a simple spreadsheet chart are the greatest!
Thanks again.
Thanks.

 

[ritz]

I guess it makes me feel better, just writing about Ritz.
No poop since Sunday. Behaving, playing, eating and peeing normally.
Anus looks irritated with two small black spots (feces?), kind of like it did right after her "gigantic" anal glands were expressed on Friday. When I lightly rubbed my hand against it while she was on my lap, she turned her head around to bite me. I am somewhat concerned that bacteria may have entered through that area, especially given her runny stools Thursday - Sunday morning.
I'm waiting until Wednesday (when her normal vet returns) to see if her anus clears up and if she poops. I am very cautiously adding some small amounts of kidney to her food. Given this situation, how much bone should I be feeding her? If I feed her two ounces of commercial raw (and, three of raw), is that enough bone? Is there anything else I could fed her that will make her pooping easier/less painful.
I do know that there is no way she'd tolerate me putting any kind of prescription cream on her (which I do have from her vet for an incident in June) or warm compresses.
Thanks, just sign me Worry Wart.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Ritz

I guess it makes me feel better, just writing about Ritz.
No poop since Sunday. Behaving, playing, eating and peeing normally.
Anus looks irritated with two small black spots (feces?) sounds like these are anal gland plugs... , kind of like it did right after her "gigantic" anal glands were expressed on Friday. When I lightly rubbed my hand against it while she was on my lap, she turned her head around to bite me. I am somewhat concerned that bacteria may have entered through that area, especially given her runny stools Thursday - Sunday morning.
I'm waiting until Wednesday (when her normal vet returns) to see if her anus clears up and if she poops. I am very cautiously adding some small amounts of kidney to her food. Given this situation, how much bone should I be feeding her? If I feed her two ounces of commercial raw (and, three of raw), is that enough bone? Is there anything else I could fed her that will make her pooping easier/less painful. Yes, you can give her canned pumpkin - plain canned pumpkin. Per my vet, 1 tablespoon a day, divided into 2 servings 1/2 tbsp in one meal, 1/2 on the second meal. You can buy canned pumpkin on your bakery isle, close to the pie shells - just make sure to be 100% pure, no sugar added.If she doesn't eat, feed her with a syringe.
I do know that there is no way she'd tolerate me putting any kind of prescription cream on her (which I do have from her vet for an incident in June) or warm compresses. Get from your vet a powder called Neo-Predef - it is AMAZING stuff. It is an antibiotic, anti-inflammatory, and it has powerful pain control (Neomycin, isoflupredone acetate, tetracaine). This powder is not drying, it gets rid of the inflammation really quickly, and the pain too.It was great for Bugsy.
Thanks, just sign me Worry Wart.

 

[ritz]

Thanks for responding so quickly.
Her anal glands were expressed four days ago. Why would they still be plugged?
Ritz hates hates hates pumpkin.
I'll ask the vet about Neo-Predef.

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Ritz

Thanks for responding so quickly.
Her anal glands were expressed four days ago. Why would they still be plugged?
Ritz hates hates hates pumpkin.
I'll ask the vet about Neo-Predef.

Feed her pumpkin with a syringe - yes she hates hates hates, but it really really really works

We can't just do what they like if we want them to get better.... This is something that will help her bunches...
Neo-Predef is the best stuff over-there for a sore butt. This worked a small miracle for Bugsy on his world-record diarrhea

 

[ritz]

Thanks. Can you draw me a picture (kidding, kind of): since Neo-Predef is a powder, how do you get it on a cat's behind. Especially since I already know Ritz' behind, hurts, and won't let me touch it. And, why wouldn't she lick it off?

 

[carolina]

Originally Posted by Ritz

Thanks. Can you draw me a picture (kidding, kind of): since Neo-Predef is a powder, how do you get it on a cat's behind. Especially since I already know Ritz' behind, hurts, and won't let me touch it. And, why wouldn't she lick it off?

The lid has little holes in it, kid of like foot powder, but a smaller tube.... You just put kitty on your lap butt up, and sprinkle the powder on - no touching - it sticks to the butt.
It has such a fast anti-inflammatory and with the tetracaine on the top of it, the pain goes away quickly, so kitty is not inclined to lick because it is in no pain. The swelling goes away in no time also. No problem if licking - this is made for cats and dogs.
I am telling you - this is the best.
Bugsy had months and months of diarrhea.... his bottom was bleeding from it.... This was magic in a bottle.... Go get it.

 

[ritz]

Thanks.
I made an appointment with the vet for tomorrow. The vet she saw Friday was a relief vet, so it's probably a good idea for her regular vet to see her anyway.