Need some advice - 2nd round of integrating a new cat with a 15-year old cat

MohnJadden

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
6
Purraise
4
My wife and I could use some help with an integration that has not gone well at all. We both have had cats all our lives, and had previously integrated cats - we'd had two cats pretty much at all times since 2008, and we volunteered with a shelter for about 10 years, so it's not our first circus, but things have not gone well. It might be easiest if I do this in a timeline, just to keep details in order:

Long story short: my 15-year old cat seems to just not want to interact with the new cat after following pretty much every interaction precaution and tactic in the book. If anyone has suggestions on how we can get her to be OK with him even showing curiosity about her, or standing her ground if he pounces to play, or any success with anti-anxiety meds for cats, I'd love to get the details.

Starts off with Taters (15) and Cecilia (12). We adopted Ceci when she was 1 and Taters was 5.

8/13/22: Cecilia has a sudden medical crisis and passes away unexpectedly.

8/26/22: We feel ready to look for another adoptable cat and meet Freddie at a nearby shelter. We spend an hour or so with him that day and really like him. He is recovering from a shoulder injury and wasn't running around much but was active, making good progress, and pending another X-ray from the shelter's vet. The shelter is OK with us waiting to hear about the shoulder before making a decision.

9/3/22: The shelter vet says his shoulder's coming along just fine. We bring home a scent-swap sample to Taters. She sniffs it and has no reaction - this is promising, since she'd panic over shelter cat smells in the past.

9/9/22: Freddie comes home with us. We put him in our 2nd floor, closed off from the rest of the house, with food + water + litter.

9/13/22: We begin scent-swapping between Taters and Freddie. Freddie is curious, Taters is disinterested. Taters goes for her annual vet wellness check - other than slightly high liver ALT values, no issues.

9/16/22: We let Freddie explore the 1st floor under our constant supervision with Taters secured in another room for a few minutes. We repeat this process over the next few days, occasionally letting them come within sight of each other. Taters hisses a little but nothing too much.

9/23/22: We start feeding them at opposite ends of the kitchen. They eat. Taters does the occasional hiss but over tim
e and short exposure, she doesn't seem to mind.

10/1/22: Occasionally Freddie will get a bit too close to Taters but she bops him and hisses, and he backs off. Other than Freddie sitting in a hallway between the door to the litter boxes and Taters, who hides a little more than normal in the basement, things seem to be going smoothly.

10/5/22: Taters' normal squeaky meows turn into just quacks - she'll open her mouth and no sound comes out. She occasionally looks like she's trying to cough up a hairball but comes up with nothing, or some foamy clear fluid. This continues for a few days.

10/8/22: Taters loses interest in the food that she's always liked. We try to tempt her with treats - she has a nibble, but not much.

10/9/22: After around 18 hours since her last confirmed food intake, we take her to the emergency vet, where they do X-rays and a CBC, and administer subcutaneous fluids. No evidence of blockage or primary organ issues. We're given scrips for throat/stomach coating meds and stool softeners in hopes of clearing up what may be constipation. She eats her normal wet food not long after we get home. We return Freddie to the upstairs and cease their interaction for the time being.

10/12/22: Other than the wet food and very minimal amounts of lickable treats, Taters still hasn't really eaten or had a bowel movement. We check in with our normal vet, who gives us a prescription appetite stimulant and syringes for force-feeding baby food. The vet asks us to check in if things don't improve in two days.
10/14/22: Still no improvement in her food/water intake. We're unable to get in touch with our vet and take her to the emergency vet. They re-run the blood tests that she got done last month, and administer an anti-nausea injection and subcutaneous fluids. Again, no issues other than slightly elevated ALT. The E-vet advises us to talk to the regular vet about an ultrasound. We get larger capacity force-feeding syringes and A/D prescription food, with the instruction to force-feed her 1tsp 4x daily, mashed into a slurry with extra water.

10/18/22: After 3.5-4 days of force feeding, Taters begins eating of her own volition. She goes to the vet and gets another checkup - all appears well. We schedule for an abdominal ultrasound next week, the earliest available slot we can get for the doctor who performs them.

After this, we tried a few more attempts at interaction. 90% of the time, Taters hisses at Freddie and wants nothing to do with him. If we leave Freddie to his druthers, he'll pounce on her to play, and Taters screams and yowls bloody murder. We separate them. At one point it got so bad that Taters fled into the basement and Freddie chased, continuing the fight. Taters peed herself in fear at some point during this encounter.

11/11/22: I buy Feliway diffusers for all the main rooms in the house where Taters hangs out and one for the upstairs for Freddie, and we get a Sentry calming collar to put on Freddie as well. We up his food intake - maybe he's hungry and in hunt mode - and also play more with him to get his energy out on toys. We keep him separated via an ad hoc gate made of wire shelving - they can see each other through it occasionally, but that's it.

11/16/22: Freddie manages to pull the gate open while I'm out of the house on errands. I find Taters on the bed, Freddie hanging out in the bedroom, seemingly neither of them having any problem. I find out later on that day that there was a scuffle - tufts of Taters' fur are around the spot where I saw her, and she'd peed through the sheets. Nature's Miracle on the affected surfaces.

11/17/22-11/19/22 - occasional supervised interactions. We stand guard between Freddie and Taters - he never gets closer than 2 feet to her. She growls and hisses if he makes eye contact or gets too close. Yesterday after one session where we take Freddie away from getting too close, we find a few hours after that fact that she's peed on the bed again - near where she was sitting when we took him from her just then.
 

Furballsmom

Cat Devotee
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
39,427
Purraise
54,176
Location
Colorado US
Hi
I personally would stop everything. The stress Taters is experiencing is awful. She literally stopped eating, and is now urinating out of fear. This extreme level of stress is at least as bad as fights that leave open wounds.

If you want to keep him, there are members who have separated their cats into sections of the house so that they don't meet.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

MohnJadden

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Fortunately the fear urination only happened after direct interaction, and we're keeping Freddie behind the gate. While we're heartbroken over not being able to have two cats in our entire house, we love Freddie and can't stand the idea of rehoming him after he's been with us. It may have only been two or three months but he's a great little guy, and it's not his fault that we didn't know how energetic he'd be after recovering from the shoulder wound.

Is there anything we missed in the integration process that we should incorporate to a future attempt? If it's never the two shall meet, we're prepared for that over rehoming, but I wanted to at least make sure we really did everything we could. Likewise if there's something we can do for Taters to help her feel safer in a future integration attempt - e.g. anxiety meds (fortunately she'll go for Pill Pockets) or if we should get her a calming collar, or something else.

Either way, we're going to replace the temporary cat gate with the Purrlin Wall. Not really relishing the idea of dividing the house but at least he'd not be able to get over a 42" tall vertical barred gate.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,501
Purraise
6,987
The fundamental problem is that time together is ultimately the engine of progress, but your 15 y.o. is too stressed for that. Since he is stressed by routine curiosity and playfullness, there is every chance that introduction activities won't touch it. Simply put, there is a difference between seeing a younger cat or eating across a gate, and having it try to jump on/play with the older cat. So this sucks, but I'm with Furballsmom Furballsmom and going to vote for separate lives. Just to give you a possibly dissenting opinion, I'll loop in A Alldara , who is another smart cat person, and is generally a bit more optimistic about the power of a well executed introduction process to get past stuff. But personally, with the not eating, I'd go with separate lives.

Senior cats often have a very tough time with new cats, and it often takes months of stress with slow progress towards toleration. But in the worse than usual cases, when you get something like the not eating, sometimes have to know when to give up. Been through two long slow difficult intros myself, and while things did proceed to close to full toleration eventually, in another slightly different situation, had to do separate lives. It stinks, but if you have the space and capability for it, sometimes its the way to go.
 
Last edited:

di and bob

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
16,683
Purraise
23,139
Location
Nebraska, USA
It's only been 2.5 months. Cats can take MUCH longer than that to learn to live together. I had two groups that took over a year to learn to tolerate each other, and we were worse off than your two. I had several deep bites and blood too, plus the peeing. (they got together somehow while we were gone) I learned if you have a hook and eye lock, make sure you get the type that has a safety latch. It was horrible. Your girl is extreme, but in time she WILL learn to tolerate her territory being invaded, females hiss, growl, and swat the boys all the time, this is normal. Peeing indicates fear though and that takes more time until she gets confident enough to assert herself.
My Chrissy did the same thing and slept on top the fridge on a bed for over a year. She only came down when they were not present. One day the boy came in that always chased her, she screamed, swatted and stood her ground, after a year! She was then Queen.
Make sure your girl has places she can escape to and defend. You could try putting him in a large wire dog kennel and letting her out, she could observe him and he couldn't get to her. Not for long, just a couple of hours and give him a box inside to get to if he wants to hide. You don't want him to get overly upset either, or feel punished. Get some calming treats on Amazon and try that too, it may take the edge off. Look at the reviews. Give them to them both. Two and a half months is nothing in a cat's timeline, it takes a long time for things like this, they live for routine and everything being constant in their lives. Her being to the vet so many times added to her fear too, but that you couldn't help. Get some Delectable Lickables in the stew flavors, cats often eat those when they won't eat anything else. It has got my cats, who have leukemia through many a crises.
She is old and set in her ways. But he will provide her with companionship and something to keep her occupied in the future. Even if he is someone for her to discipline at times. they live for that. Let them see each other now but not be able to get together. I had a latched screen door up for a long time. But eventually, it WILL happen, you'll see!
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

MohnJadden

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
6
Purraise
4
You could try putting him in a large wire dog kennel and letting her out, she could observe him and he couldn't get to her. Not for long, just a couple of hours and give him a box inside to get to if he wants to hide.
The trick with this is that Taters basically sleeps literally all day - she moves from her corner of the bedroom closet to the bed to the living room couch, and then into the TV room if she feels like it later. We'd basically have to bring the cage into whatever room she's in at the time and then put Freddie in it. I'm guessing a temporary litter box as well, which is probably tough since he's a bit of a kicker - without a top on a litter box we'd have litter everywhere.

Is that a good idea for the cage if we were to pursue it?
 

di and bob

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
16,683
Purraise
23,139
Location
Nebraska, USA
I would think so. You can get large cages pretty cheap on facebook buy and sell. A small litter box, even a cardboard flat would work. Chances are he won't need it for the short time he would be in there. You also might consider leash training the boy. That way you can control him around her.
 

Alldara

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Apr 29, 2022
Messages
5,530
Purraise
9,400
Location
Canada
I never recommend the cage method. I think it stresses cats out too much.

I will stress patience. Everything you've list about their interactions is normal.

Hissing is perfectly okay and is not a sign of aggression. It's saying, "Hey I don't like that!" Or "Back off!" If your kitten is listening to that and backing off then your cat is just teaching manners.

Unless it's toofs of hair where that's painful, it could be just the type of fur one has. Magnus's toofs end up everywhere whenever he and Calcifer okay because apparently, Cal's feet are the best brush for his fur. 🤣 Magnus also toofs himself when he's kicking a kicker toys because he fights his own feet.

I would recommend the following:

- continue to give senior cat closed door time away from kitten
- play with kitten and try to wear her out before face to face intros (easier said than done I know!)
- cat calming music, especially with purring as much as possible during interactions even through the gate. Any streaming platform has some. I use YouTube music.
- Feliway multicat if you can afford it I found the difference between regular and multicat huge.
- adjusting your expectations: your older cat is still mourning the loss of their friend. Sleeping a ton is normal, also the age and energy gaps are huge. It will take a long time. It was 6 months before Magnus and Nobel were fully integrated. Nobel was still mourning the loss of our late cat.
- Because you only adopted one kitten, as humans you need to make up that energy difference so that your kitten isn't bugging your cat and causing relationship deterioration. This can be hard and exhausting. I eventually gave in and got a second kitten and began introducing the cats all over again.
- both my kittens were matched to the personality of my older cat. If you do decide to get a second kitten you'll want to look out for: one that likes to play the same way your kitten does and one that perhaps has lived with a senior cat before. I also chose docile cats so that they wouldn't get bossy with my older cat.
 
Top