Need help convincing others to stop feeding my cat

[crowen]

Hi there,

Hang with me here a moment. Back story: 

Some circumstance has left me living with my parents the past while. They were kind enough to let me stay here while I also went through a few years of school. During this time, there were four animals in the house: a dog and three cats. A few months ago the eldest cat, who we've had since I was 4, passed away from kidney failure. I wound up missing a class I couldn't afford to miss when I realized there was something wrong with her - but I'm grateful for this because I know nobody else would have noticed and she would have suffered until the end of the day, if she had made it that long.  

After that incident, I checked the remaining animals gums. The 14 year old dog had been in rough shape for a while, particularly her teeth, but for whatever reason my knowledge is considered hubbub and my opinion worthless. What I saw was a dog with completely white and pale gums, a sullen look to her face and the few remaining teeth in her mouth coated in tartar. I've known for a while she was suffering ignorance and neglect, but I felt bad for her that day. Less than a week after, she was in too much pain to even eat. In response, my parents crushed up advil and fed it to her claiming "she had just broken a tooth." Needless to say, a few days later we had to take her to the emergency vet, where they found pneumonia, cancer and stage 4 periodontal disease. 

The excuse they always had for free feeding the animals was that it was too difficult to feed them separately with how many there were. This isn't true, and even when they only had one cat several years ago, their feeding regime was to free feed kibble any time it asked or any time there was none in the bowl. Typically this was not an issue, as all their cats had been outdoor cats who would hunt for themselves and rarely over eat. 

While the other animals' deaths were unfortunate, I was happy that now their "excuse" could no longer be used and I could take over the feeding of the remaining two cats. One is a 15 year old DSH who has been an outdoor cat for most of her life. The other is a 5 year old DSH who has been an indoor cat due to city bi-law changes, and has been overweight since she was a kitten. The oldest has been between 7-8 lbs, the youngest was at 18-20 lbs. For a while, I was successful in managing their food. The oldest maintained weight at 7-8 lbs, while the youngest dropped from 18.2 lbs to 16.4 lbs (a bit faster than intended, but still safely). The past month I've had her down to 16.2. 

The constant struggle, however, has been with my parents. They are insistent in disrespecting my attempts to lower my cats weight and increase their health. They undermine my attempts at portion control and scheduled feeding. I resorted to nesting the kibble they would buy in my closet, only releasing portions out to the kitchen in a box of wrapped packages. I figured, this way, I would at least know how much kibble they have eaten so I would know how many calories they are at and how much wet food to compensate as a result. However, they began sharing the packages, so I slowly wanned on putting any more out.

There was one solid week block where I was able to control the cats foods entirely. I fed them Tiki Cat and Almo chicken, and both of them had exceptionally more energy. My overweight cat, while usually depressed, wanted to do nothing but play. She lost a couple of ounces. My parents even remarked how they were shedding less, but then scoffed when I mentioned it was because they had not been eating any Costco kibble and their coats were doing better. 

Yesterday I went to get more Tiki cat, but the store had an order error. It seems Tiki is having trouble with all stores in the city. As a result, I purchased a bag of freeze dried Feline Natural raw as well as a bag of Nature's Variety raw chicken. I was worried they wouldn't take to it, but I was able to get them to eat some yesterday and the youngest is happy to eat the freeze dried so long as it is still dry. I realize this defeats half the purpose, but she has not yet accepted a different texture other than hard kibble. So long as I was able to convince her to have some of the frozen chicken, I was happy to let her eat the dried raw. 

I woke up this morning at 8AM to feed the cats. Beside the bowl was a large bag of Kirkland kibble, and in the bowl was several cups worth of food - some  already eaten. I said nothing as I approached and leaned over to it, by which they told me it had "been for Missy (the oldest)." They knew I was angry at them leaving kibble out for the fat cat to potentially get at, so they were making an excuse about how it was for the older cat, who they claim, "only nibbles every once in a while." They don't seem to understand that they nibble because they have been raised to be grazers, that food will always be available to them, and that they should not feed the cats whenever they ask for it. This is also undermining my efforts because so long as they know the kibble is available, they will wait me out on or refuse the other foods. 

I am insistent on changing my cats diets from a free-fed dry kibble basis to a healthier mode of eating. One of my cats died from kidney failure soon after no longer being able to go outside, and I blame the lack of moisture. The other has been extremely obese and depressed for most of her life, and I also blame the kibble for this. My parents, however, do not respect this and refuse to read anything on cat nutrition - assuming instead that I am just being overbearing and ridiculous. 

How can I help convince them otherwise, without having to just pack up and leave? It is very difficult to "reason" with them, as they already assume I am wrong from the get-go and have no qualms speaking over, down to, and interrupting me. They are extremely defensive and I am rather passive and easy going, so it is a difficult thing to negate.

Suggestions? 

 

[ritz]

I'm sorry you're going through this.  It's obvious you care, and just as obvious your parents don't, hopefully just out of ignorance.  

You can't convince people who do not want to be convinced, who cannot admit they are wrong, who cannot change their way of thinking, who must be in control.  (Did they grow up with cats--20 years ago it was acceptable to feed cats dry food; times/knowledge changes.)  

Who perhaps resent taking care of the animals so they take it out on the powerless, defenseless animals.  (Sorry, listening to too much Dr. Phil.  And trying to censure myself.)

They won't listen to you, for whatever reasons.  Will they listen to a vet they trust?  There are lots of cat sites I can direct you to; http://www.catinfo.org  has lots of articles written by a vet.   However, I do not know if they will believe what they read (versus what you tell them). 

Who paid for the vet visits?  Who pays for their food?  Money sometimes speaks loudest.  The literature/vet will indicate that UTIs are expensive, much more so than even the most expensive wet food.  That a good diet will save money in the long run.    That the cats will be happier. 

Meanwhile:  I would keep on reciting scientific evidence about the cheapest wet food being better than the most expensive dry food, and removing the kibble from the house (do they have keys to your car?) if necessary.  Do it out in the open; there is no need to be passive-aggressive (woops, more Dr. Phil).  Donate any excess dry food to your local animal shelter.

Good luck, and let us know how things go.

 

[katluver4life]

The "wet is better then dry" discovery is fairly recent, in regards to a cats nutritional needs and overall health. Many cat owners have been told for years by their vets that dry is better cause it prevents dental issues. I find this is still being told to many cat owners. So it is understandable when you try to convert those ideas, you may run into a wall. Your parents are probably just set in that old school way of thinking. They may be defensive because they have always felt they treated your cats well and now your telling them no they aren't. It can be hard to find ways of teaching new ideas to those close to you without possibly hurting their feelings in some way. Once someone gets in the defensive mode, they can be even more stubborn in their views. 

My thought is maybe to have some books unobtrusively lying around or other pamphlets on cat nutrition for them to "find". I even printed out everything on catinfo.org when I was adopting out my fosters as a handout to the new owners. Maybe reading on their own will help. In the mean time, just keep gently reminding them that they are not helping the cats in continuing to leave dry out and that you will just keep removing it. And so they are wasting their money. Happy to hear the cats now have you looking out for them. I think in the long run they will learn and stop. As with our cats when teaching something new...time and patience.

 

[crowen]

Hi, thanks for the suggestions. 

In order to make sure there is some kibble available for my parents to feed the cats if they start getting meowy, and also to ensure they each get a certain amount of calories, I've wrapped more packages of the kibble they had bought. This is a quarter cup and two tablespoons of Nutro Natural Choice Senior, which can be seen here: http://www.nutro.com/natural-cat-fo...ood/dry/indoor-senior-chicken-brown-rice.aspx

The alternative kibble is Kirkland Signature's, which can be seen here: http://petfoodtalk.com/catfoodreviews/kirkland-cat-food/

In your opinion, of the two, which would be better to release to the kitchen? I assumed Nutro, but after looking at the ingredients this might be why I'm having such trouble convincing them to eat something else. Green tea? Spearmint? Really? haha. 

This morning I gave my 16 lb, 5 year old cat a little portion of the Nutro with a medallion of Nature's Variety Instinct raw. I knew she probably wouldn't eat the medallion, but that if she assumed the food she likes with the smell of the raw she'd be more open to it later. She did willingly put some of the raw in her mouth, probably from knowing of it yesterday, but made the same mouth movements most younger children do when they get something in their mouth they don't like the taste or texture of. When she was done with the kibble, I took the bowl and tried to warm the medallion slightly with warm water, and also broke it apart with a spoon. She wasn't interested, so I tried placing some crumbled Friskies treats on the top of it. She was still unsure, but tried it anyway. What concerns me is that she backed away a minute later and tried to heave what she had just eaten. I knew she wasn't puking, because she had just had Nutro kibble and there was none of that in the little she spat up. 

I'm not sure if that heaving was from the raw, or from the treats. She's had the treats in the past, so the only way I could see that being the case was if they were old, or being in contact with the raw was a bad idea. Either way, I threw the rest of the medallion away and washed out the dish. That medallion was the one I had thawing in the fridge from yesterday, and was supposed to be fed yesterday prior to my parents having fed the cats without my knowledge. Is this a bad idea for raw? Should it only be kept refrigerated for a certain period of time? I figure she just didn't like it because of the texture. She was happy to lap at the warm water.

I've just sat back down from having given the same cat the rest of the kibble in the package I unwrapped this morning (about 4 hours after), because I was told the "cat was crying." My parents told me they wished they could pack me up to China, so they could feed me octopus and see how I liked it (I'd be open to that! I asked my cat if she wanted a potato or a bird). They also suggested I put the Nutro in one bucket and the Kirkland in another, to see which kibble they preferred. They also said they liked how they could just put kibble in the dish whenever they wanted, knowing the cats will just eat what they will and not have to worry about it. For some reason, they think her eating habits were a result of having to fight with her kitten litter. Thus, when we first brought her home, she would "wolf down the entire bowl" thinking it was her only chance to eat. There was no refute back when I mentioned that, if this were the case, then she should have lost weight by now. 

So far I figure I will have to continue giving the cats the packages of kibble I've prepared. They are all 3/8ths a cup of Nutro, which I have been supplementing differently for each cat. The youngest will still eat the freeze dried raw as long as it is dry, so I've been putting a quarter of a days serving out for her of that - though she wants it broken down into sizes similar to that of kibble before she'll eat it. The oldest won't touch the freeze dried if it is dry, but will nibble slightly if it is rehydrated. I've also been sharing a can of Schesir chicken fillets between the two of them, primarily for the older, smaller cat since the younger one is eating freeze dried. I'm making a point of giving the younger one some canned anyway, because I want to get her to accept a different texture other than dry or kibble.

I was able to give them Tiki Cat for two weeks prior. However, nobody in the city was able to get the chicken varieties, and now everywhere is having trouble getting any Tiki at all. The oldest ate any canned I gave her, the youngest would only nibble and preferred tuna. I'm not comfortable feeding them primarily on tuna, though, so this is a problem. Is it possible my youngest cat just does not like chicken? The kibble is supposedly flavoured as chicken, but I can't imagine that's actually the case.

I would LOVE to get my parents to both read and understand the content on catinfo.org, but I've tried having them read articles before to no avail. I've left printouts laying about also, but have found them either with snarky remarks scrawled on them and placed on my bed, or in the garbage. I can't sit down and have a talk with them either, as I'm more versed with writing than speaking and they are more versed with speaking - and interrupting - than they are writing. I'm not sure it'll be possible without external intervention, or some sort of frustrating periods for both of us. 

That said, presuming I can keep the cats on the servings of kibble I've released to the kitchen, I have more questions for you:

1. Nutro or Kirkland?

2. Continue trying to serve medallions with the kibble, or by itself in between kibble?

3. Suggestions on getting my cats to accept the raw? Is bathing a medallion of raw chicken in tuna water an awful idea?  

4. Is it safe to mix raw food with wet canned? I have some left over Friskies from my previous cat. They might be open to this.

The food I have available right now consists of,

A small bag of the nutro, half a large bag of the kirkland, a bag of 50 raw chicken medallions, a 500g bag of the K9 freeze dried, half a can of schesir chicken, 11 cans of a Friskies variety pack. 

Their prior diet consisted primarily of nutro, kirkland, and the very rare can of Friskies (primarily for the cat who passed away, and hasn't been used since). 

I feel the kibble is important in order to maintain calories for the youngest cat who doesn't like the other food as much. So even though I was accused of "cold turkeying" them, I know this isn't an option. What do you think? 

 

[krysta]

Well, as to the Nutro vs. Kirkland, I fed Kirkland to my last cat for years with good results, and have also fed it to my current two at times.  I like that the recipe is very simple, pretty much just chicken and rice (almost identical to the more expensive California Natural).  I've always thought the Nutro has too many "extra" things in it, like peas and potato.  I think a lot of people assume that because the Kirkland is a big-box store brand and is affordable, that it's not good, but it's actually a decent quality food, I think a lot of people on here think well of it.  Your parents could have done a lot worse as far as the brand of kibble goes!

 

[Willowy]

I would feed Kirkland over Nutro, when it comes to kibbles.

Can you get more canned food into them? Even something cheap? Since you said you've read the catinfo page, you know that even a cheap canned food is better than a "good" dry food. That will help the chubby one lose weight, too. You definitely can mix the raw in with the canned food. And you can maybe present the canned food as a "treat" so your parents want to give the cats treats to make them happy.

 

[katluver4life]

I agree that the Kirkland is the better of the 2. The raw feeding group here have all dealt with converting kitties to raw and would be glad to help you with ideas on that. http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-feeding-for-cats. Putting small pieces of the medallions out with any of their meals, like right on the plate/bowl next to the food would get them used to the smell and they may even eat some of it like that right off. I think coating the medallions with the tuna juice (if "in water") is one way some of the members here do it also. And as Willowy said, yes it would be fine to mix the raw in the wet np.

I'm so sorry your parents are so unwilling to learn something new in the care of your cats.   It is not unusual though. I have had this type of discussion with one of my friends in regards of the mind set of some people when it comes to their pets. The mind set I find of...they are just animals...they are just fine with what I have been doing...I have always done it this way...ect..Fortunately your cats have you! And they will be both healthier now. Your doing a great service to them even if your parents aren't supportive of that.

 

[crowen]

Thanks, guys. The Kirkland actually simplifies things a lot, because they had already been on Kirkland prior. I had packaged up the Nutro because it was the new bag that had been purchased, and I assumed they had already been on Nutro. 

I've packaged up the Kirkland instead into wrappings containing approximately 165 calories. I'm comfortable that if they only eat a single package of this each, they will be fine until the next morning - or if they get a half and half mix, that it won't cause the larger cat to gain weight. 

So far they have had no kibble today, though, and have not asked or begged for any. This morning I mixed a quarter tin of Friskies with a quarter chicken medallion and they were both happy to eat some of their share. Neither were crazy about it, and neither ate their full quarter shares when I put them down, so I decided to leave it out for a while. One step at a time, I figure - if I can't get them on scheduled feeding and they want to "graze", then that's fine for now, so long as they're eating better and getting used to the raw. I didn't leave it out for very long because of the raw that was mixed in, but I found the plate empty when I returned later  

They've just had a second helping, so they've had half a tin of Friskies and half a medallion of raw each. If that keeps up, it would be a full meal for them in a day with no kibble!  Unfortunately I fear for a rumbly sensitive tummy, so they will probably get some kibble snack today anyway. As absolutely terrifying as the ingredients on the Friskies is (the first ingredient is "Fish", haha), it seems to be working to get them accustomed to the raw. 

Thanks for your assistance so far.  And the support, for that matter!  I tried once more to send the catinfo.org link to my parents, but they just told me to "stop leaving them notes." I doubt it was even opened or looked at. Apparently they don't have time to concern themselves with what the cats are eating, because they are stressed out about buying a second fridge for the food they store that is already being thrown out all the time. I don't get them, but so long as this endeavour has convinced them to stop interfering then that's good enough for me. I don't need their support, I just need them to not undermine my efforts! 

 

[katluver4life]

This is great news! Congrats on getting them to eat at least some of the raw so quickly! Scheduled feedings and having them a bit on the hungry side at feeding times is a great way to go.

Also try a wide variety of foods for their wet. The more variety they can get used to, the less trouble you'll have if one of the foods suddenly becomes unavailable to you or if a "special" diet is needed at any time. Wishing you continued success and keep us posted. Post in the raw feeding section, many there will love to hear how your progressing and can help with more tips if needed.
 

 

[crowen]

I might start up a thread in the raw feeding section soon. It seems like a good resource, even if just for tracking raw feeding progress and results. My oldest kitty is giving me a bit of grief transitioning her to raw, but there a few factors to that.

My biggest hurdle is still my parents, unfortunately. Yesterday was going pretty good until I went upstairs around 11PM and found an entire wrapping of kibble dumped in the bowl and left there. I made it pretty clear to just put in a little bit, or if they weren't sure how much a particular cat had then to only put a maximum of half for the day and I'd take care of the rest, but they don't seem to care. As a result my fat kitty was almost fed over 400 calories in one day

 I believe in scheduled feedings too, especially to keep track of what they're eating. My youngest doesn't understand when to stop, so if she's allowed to she will eat herself to a caloric intake to support 18-20 lbs.  Unfortunately, my mother just wants to be able to free feed them because she thinks the oldest one nibbles and needs food available throughout the day so that she eats enough. For some reason she thinks the youngest cat is better about not eating so much, despite very obvious evidence that this is not true. She also wants them to have food available all the time so that if we're ever in a jam for cat sitters, that she can just leave food out for them and know they won't wolf it all down in one sitting. 

Both absolutely ridiculous, of course! The cat nibbles because she doesn't have scheduled feeding. She's underweight because her food is not being watched, just the same as the other one is overweight because her food is not being watched. I don't really know what to do any more, so I just stick around all day and monitor it myself to undo any undermining that goes on. It's okay for now, but it's not going to work out in the long run when I need to grab a job, or if I can't work from home  

I really don't know what to do to get them to understand even basic cat nutrition, especially when there are so many mixed messages. She asked me if I wanted her to get the "weight management Kirkland kibble" instead, and I tried to explain why I didn't want her to buy any kibble but if she was going to buy it then I'd rather it continue to be the regular Kirkland kibble or Orijen. They don't like the prospect of buying Orijen, though, because it's much more expensive than Kirkland. Not entirely understanding where they're coming from, since they don't need to buy any food! I buy it now. They buy extra and then act like we're obligated to feed it to them. Very frustrating. 

The good news, though, is that my youngest cat ate the freeze dried raw today after it was rehydrated and ate the chicken medallions without anything being added to them or any coaxing. Very happy about that. She seemed less interested in eating as a result, and even did her usual "burying the bad food" gesture towards the dish with kibble instead of the plate of raw. So I'm hopeful now that if I get raw into her first then it won't matter if I miss the kibble being put in excess into the bowl. It's still a battle to get my older cat to eat anything substantial, though. I had some minor success by mixing in a lot of Friskies with the chicken medallion on a plate and putting her in an isolated room. Part of the reason I think she "nibbles" is because she is jumpy. If anything disturbs her eating, she will stop and walk away. This has had the greatest success when I'm in the room monitoring her, because she will also get frustrated and walk away if the food rolls away while she licks it. She is getting better about biting rather than licking. 

The larger cat went from 16.2 lbs to 16.0 lbs the past month and the smaller went from 7.2 lbs to 7.0 lbs. I'm doing my best to shovel as much as possible into the little one while preventing it going to the larger one, but it's proving more difficult than I thought. Should I be more strict about the kibble being placed, and more aggressive with my tactics to get more food into the smaller one? She's very stubborn so I'm afraid of regressing progress. 

I've been posting for a few days now, so I'd like to thank you guys for your  comments and support so far. I think it's fair I introduce you to the cats I've been talking about! 

They're both taking cat naps right now, so here's some photo's from last summer. 

This is Q, she is the youngest. She is approximately 5 years old, and at the time of these pictures weighed approximately 18 lbs. 

548059_10151127444756554_515349197_n.jpg

• crowen
• Apr 22, 2013

And this is Missy. She is the older one who I'm having a hard time getting to eat. She is approximately 15 years old, and I'm not sure how much she weighs in this picture since I was never overly concerned about her weight until recently. She's always hovered around 7-9, though, so she's probably about 8 lbs here. You can see from her expression how easily she is startled!

283727_10151127446696554_1810850885_n.jpg

• crowen
• Apr 22, 2013

 

[katluver4life]

Adorable kitties! Thanks for putting faces to them. We love pictures!

Boy..I can imagine the frustration you must be feeling with your parents.

I think it's gotten to the point where you just have to make do with a bad situation. At least the young one (Q) is losing weight! yay! Did you do any reading on catinfo.org on transitioning a kibble cat to wet? One thing you stated was that Q is starting to turn her nose up on the dry? Is this correct? Usually cats who get full on a high protein diet don't feel the need to nibble all day. Their body is putting to use more of the food they are eating. So IF she does nibble a LITTLE of the dry, it probably won't hurt...BUT I know your trying to eliminate it from her diet altogether. Ok.. so then we come to scheduled separated feedings. And since you say Missy gets disturbed easy, is there any quiet place she can be fed alone? So now we're talking along the lines that Q will be fine at this point. She is taking to the raw, and not really going for the dry as much..now need to get Q to gain a little and be able to eat in peace. Is this about right? There are many tricks that can be used to encourage Missy to eat more wet. Crushing her dry and use it as a topper, parmesan cheese too can be used. Some use the water from canned tuna. When introducing new wet to mine (who are extremely picky) I use freeze dried 100% chicken crumbled on top. Hope this helps some and keep updating.