Need advice :)

[cassandra_starr]

Ok.. I want to get a purebred registered siamese. However.. I want to make sure that I get this new baby from a good breeder, that he/she comes from a healthy environment.. etc.


Basically I was wondering if I could get some tips in choosing a breeder.. and also some advice on what to look for. I plan on visiting different ones.. on more than one occasion.. as I want to see living conditions and how they are cared for etc. What should I look for... what questions should I ask.. etc. I'm so new to this and I want to make sure that I'm careful and do things the right way!


-Cassie

 

[buttercup429]

Hi, I've been looking into Siamese and Orientals lately too. I'll be interested in the replies. Do you know if you want a apple head (traditional) or a wedgie (modern) Siamese? I personally love the wedgies just not the to extreme ones that look like bats. LOL!

 

[sandie]

I would definatley go for visits etc. I would also want to speak with the cattery vet. Find out the health status on the cats. You also want to make sure they have valid pedigrees. Make sure you see paperwork on all the cats he/she has to offer. If they are showing then track the status of the lines and such. Make sure all of the cats have been tested and it's documented for FELV/FIV.I would also make sure it states in the paperwork when you buy one that you have the rights to breeding the cat. I know it seems alot, but it is best that you are going to continue to better the breed.

 

[imagyne]

Also make sure that there IS a contract, for your protection as well as that of the breeder. MAke sure it gives some kind of warrenty period. Ask lots of questions, then research to make sure ou got the right answers. As my wife said, go visit, if the breeder balks at this, then find another one. Make sure the kitten your going to get has a vet check right before you get them. Of course if you plan to breed then make sure its in the contract. Oh, if you cant visit then ask for references, if the breeder balks or give you some excuse why they can't or don't want to then find another.


Ken

 

[gayef]

First, let me commend both Cassie and Buttercup for their wonderful taste in cats! *grin* I just love the Siamese cats!! They are among my favorites, so if I can be of any assistance to you, I am happy to be.

When choosing a breeder, the first thing to consider is whether you want the old-style body type or the show-style body type. Not many breeders will have kittens in both body types, even if some of the show-style kittens are more round and moderate in appearance, they are still show-style kitties. If you are interested in the old-style Siamese cats, I might suggest to visit PREOSSIA's web site, and look into obtaining your cat from one of the many reputable breeders there. It is a wonderful organization devoted to the preservation of the old-style Siamese cats, and really deserves the support. Visit them at http://www.oldstylesiamese.com

If you are interested in a show-style cat, visit The Fancier's Breed Referral List and locate a breeder in your area there. Visit them at http://www.breedlist.com. This is a wonderful resource of breeders from all over and would be my first stop. (They also have a listing of Old-Style breeders there, under Traditional Siamese.)

Once you've narrowed the list down to a few breeders that you want to contact personally, then the fun really begins! You'll want to make certain that ethical breeding practices are being followed, and you will be interviewed by the breeder. Some things to consider when choosing a breeder are:

Make certain the breeder does not sell kittens before a minimum age of 3 months AND 2 pounds in weight. Siamese kittens do not physically mature early, and their immune systems are not fully developed until a year of age.

Make sure the breeder does not sell kittens without a contract which very specifically details what the breeder expects of the buyer, and what the buyer should expect from the breeder. There should be a Take-Back Clause in the contract - No Siamese kitten from an ethical breeder should EVER end up in a shelter -- the kitten/cat should ALWAYS be welcomed back by the breeder.

Make sure the breeder does NOT sell kittens without vaccinations and a written form of health guarantee, or allow a kitten to leave at 12 or 16 weeks if it is not well or the breeder has any concerns about it at that time. In addition, many breeders, if asked, at mostly at an additional expense, will provide a certificate that the kitten has been tested for FeLV and is negative.

Make certain the breeder is always available to answer questions and assist you as the new owner whenever possible.

During the interview process, the breeder should carefully screens potential buyers, and will refuse to sell a kitten to an inappropriate buyer. Not everyone understands the special traits and personalities of the Siamese breed, and an ethical breeder will explain the breed's quirks to a potential buyer so that this person fully understands what the breed is like and what to expect. If the Siamese personality and activity level is NOT what the potential owner wants, it is important to weed these people out during the screening process. More people are screened out than ever get to buy a kitten.

The ethical breeder should sell pet quality kittens with a neuter/spay contract or sell these kittens already neutered or spayed, a practice which is becoming common in areas where the vets are progressive enough to practice early neutering/spaying. In no event, should a pet-quality kitten be sold with breeding rights, nor should an ethical breeder sell a breeding-quality animal to someone who does not follow the same ethical guidelines on breeding that this breeder practices. You will NEVER see an ad from an ethical breeder which states "Siamese kittens - $200 without papers, $300 with papers".

The breeder will, in the screening process, ask a potential owner personal questions such as:

Do you own your house or rent; and if you rent, they may require a statement from the landlord that animals are permissible.

If you currently own animals, who do you use as a vet and what is his phone number? Be prepared and let the vet know in advance that they may have to issue either a verbal or written statement of your past history in caring for pets to this breeder. It will save a lot of time, trouble and effort on your part to get your vet's agreement to do this BEFORE you start calling on breeders.

Have you owned this breed before; if not, do you understand their temperament and needs?

If you have other cats, are they allowed outdoors?

Are those cats declawed?

Do you have very young children in your house?

Do you intend to breed?

What would you do if you had to move - look for a place which allows animals or give up the cat?

These are only a few of the issues to be addressed, but enough for now. When you get a little closer in your search, let me know if I can help you further.

Best of luck,

Gaye

 

[frannie]

Great choice. My mom has been showing, judging, breed chairman on associations and has been breeding meazers and OSHs for almost 40 years. Rene has one of her and I have a few also. Here's her website, www.jorenecattery.com. Check it out. If you are interested in getting one from her, let me know because I could bring a kitten back with me from Jersey to Nevada. She has a wonderful reputation and is well respected. Rene can attest to it and so can Sandie, Ken, Donna and Michele. She's very particular where her cats go and she specializes in blue eyed whites and lynx points. I do suggest that you read up on everything you can on the breed as they are a very special breed. Hope this helps and if I can be of any assistance, please ask. BTW, Gaye's reply is excellent.

Frannie

 

[cassandra_starr]

Well, I have 3 traditional siamese.. and they are sooo precious. I, do, however want a show cat. I think I'm gonna go for the modern siamese this time. I am interested in breeding cats.. but that won't be possible for quite a while.. as Craig and I are moving.. and the place we are moving into isn't very suitable for breeding.. nor is it big enough.

Gaye, thank you so much for all the advice. I will *definitely* make sure to be very careful in picking who my breeder will be. Thanks again!


Frannie, What can I say? You've been so nice and given so much advice.. thanks. I will be paying a visit to your mother's website!

Sandie, thank you for the help.. I can only hope to get as knowledgable about cats as you guys!

 

[sandie]

Buttercup, the only bat looking meezers I have seen are TICA cats. Most of the ones I have seen shown in CFA or AACE have a nice wedge but don't look like bats.
Yes, JoRene cats are BEAUTIFUL. I don't think I have ever seen such blue eyes in my life. I have been to the house and the health and care of her cats is wonderful.
Gaye, I am not an expert and the Siamese, but they are very interesting. I am wondering how these guys got the label Traditional and old style. My understanding of the whole thing was that the old style were just shown first. In talking to a breeder that went to Siam to see the cats, she said that the cats have the wedged shaped heads. Not as defined as they are now, but the structure is very close to the modern style we see today.

 

[gayef]

Hi Sandie,

Thanks for asking this question. (Or not as the case may be *grin* I tend to get wordy on this topic - sorry)

When I refer to an "Old-Style" Siamese, I am referring to the rounder, more moderate cats in terms of head shape. This cat is a good example of an OSS (Old Style Siamese):

http://www.oldstylesiamese.com/history.html

The cat, "Ah Choo", bred by Lady Vyvyan in 1900 is the one I am referring to, about half-way down the page if you scroll.

The picture on the page I've linked below is a good example of what I refer to when I talk about a "Show-Style" Siamese:

http://www.breedlist.com/siamese-breeders.html

As we can plainly see from the pictures, there are obvious differences in the appearance of these cats. During the early part of the 1900's, we saw the moderately wedge-shaped heads on Siamese and a more robust body shape, such as Ah Choo. As the Breed Standard began to change during the 1950's (I think it was the 1950's - don't have my reference material handy shame on me!) these cats progressed over time from the more moderate wedge-shape to the current extreme wedge-shape that we see in the show halls today, like the one on the Breed List page. There is a school of thought that calls the start of this progression "Classic", and as they progressed, the mid-range cats are called "Traditional" and the extreme end are called Modern, but I disagree with that. I don't think there are 3 distinct "types" of Siamese cats, "Classic", Traditional" and "Modern". I believe there are only TWO; Old-Style and Show-Style.

In my breed preservation organization, an OSS is technically defined as: Old-Style Siamese (also known as applehead, Classic Siamese, Traditional Siamese, Thai Cat, or Primary Siamese) - a Siamese of moderate Oriental body type and having a pedigree that contains Siamese ancestors, at least dating back to 1980, that are substantially different than those found in the pedigrees of modern CFA show-style Siamese. The Old-Style Siamese is therefore likely to possess some desirable (e.g., health-related) traits of early historic members of the breed that are no longer present in current CFA show-style Siamese.

For a look at the differences in the Breed Standards for the SSS (Show-Style Siamese) and the OSS, here is a link for the OSS Breed Standard:

http://www.oldstylesiamese.com/brdstand.html

And now the Breed Standard for the SSS:

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/standards/siamese.html

I think I understand where Buttercup's interpretation of the SSS resembling bats came into play...I have friend in New Hampshire who breed Orientals and they all have these wonderful and gorgeous but enormous ears and very pointed little faces. Looking at the picture in the link below, I can see how Buttercup would think they look like bats *grin* This image is one of Gini's babies, "Eva" (isn't she stunning???):

http://www.geocities.com/mysticquest/EVA.html

Hope this helps,

Gaye

 

[gayef]

Hi Frannie,

Thanks for your kind words. It means a lot to me when people appreciate the work I've done on this topic.

As a future breeder (not ready to get my feet wet yet as it were) I can only hope I am as good as some of you more experienced guys and gals here at the Cat Site.

Thanks for the link to JoRene. I take it these are show-style Siamese?

Yours,

Gaye

 

[frannie]

Yes, they are show/breeder and pets but the new style. She's very well respected and has cats all over the United States. When I go to shows out here, people know her cats. If there is anything we can help you with, please ask and I can't wait to hear about your first litter and how many times you almost fell over them and how they use your legs for climbing posts. They will make you laugh and be proud and sometimes clumsey.

Frannie