Nasal basaloid ductular Carcinoma/ Update/ Questions re: Claritin/Nebulizer

[Surfsidesindy]

Unfortunately, our 6 year old cat Piper was recently diagnosed with a nasal carcinoma tumor via a rhinoscopy and biopsy. The type of cancer is Basaloid ductular carcinoma, low grade. It was diagnosed after a month of treatment for an upper respiratory infection with no relief. Right before the rhinoscopy she was so congested with the tumor and the snoot she was having trouble breathing. The closest oncology hospital is over an hour away and they require bringing your pet with you for the $150 consultation. We are not pursuing chemo or radiation, but are interested to find out if this tumor is operable, not necessarily for a cure, but to debulk the tumor for a greater quality of life. This particular type of cancer seems to be unusual in the sinuses of cats, so we'd also like to get more information on growth rate etc. They did say it has a very low chance of metastasis. The other option they gave was to try an NSAID long term, which may slow the growth of the tumor and give her more time. So I am wondering if anyone has experience with this type of cancer? If anyone has used NSAIDs long term for a cancerous tumor? And if anyone has used and paid for an online consultation with a veterinary oncologist? I have the complete biopsy results as well as a picture of the tumor.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. That is such an unheard of tumor and location in my opinion. I can’t even find anything about it. I found basaloid but only along with squamous cell. I hound ductal but only with milk duct tumors. Not together unless referring to a salivary tumor.

I think you need to get a consult with an oncologist even if you are not pursuing chemo.
It’s to bad they didn’t debulk that tumor when they got the sample.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I don't know where you are located or how it was determined that your only oncology option is with one that is an hour away and requires the presence of your cat, but I'd look into that aspect further from a different perspective. VCA hospitals often will do second opinion consults, and I believe they will do so initially without actually seeing the cat.

Maybe contact the VCS and see what options might be available to you?
Pet Owner Resources - Veterinary Cancer Society (vetcancersociety.org)

This might be another option to look into. I suspect since they have a 'pet owner' section and a 'vet' section, that perhaps your vet could/should look into it from their angle as well maybe to 'validate' the group. It looks like they supposedly do teleconferencing with vets and pet owners.
Pet Oncology for Vet Clinics | Pet Cancer Care Consulting

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi Surfsidesindy and a very warm welcome to the forum !

Is there a Veterinary teaching College near enough to be accessible? If so, your Vets are likely to have professional connections there and, because this is such a rarity, they might have a special interest in taking on his case. In any event, Your Vets could likely make a direct referral for you. Here's a listing of those (US) Colleges: United States Veterinary Schools.

Quite unlike humans, cats manage chemotherapy/radiation quite well.

Besides forums like this, there are a number of specialized online info/support communities of folks focusing on the management of their cats' cancer. They have been active for years and, with thousands of members, have a collective knowledge base that's second to none. The best chances of finding other similar cases are here as are the best-informed answers to your questions. Three are on Facebook and one is 'freestanding':

• Feline Cancer Support
• The Feline Cancer Support Group
• Cats With Cancer (and allies) Support Group
• Feline (cat) Cancer Support Group

Personally, I don't feel there's going to be any value-for-money coming from an "online consultation".

Keep us updated!
.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

Hi. That is such an unheard of tumor and location in my opinion. I can’t even find anything about it. I found basaloid but only along with squamous cell. I hound ductal but only with milk duct tumors. Not together unless referring to a salivary tumor.

I think you need to get a consult with an oncologist even if you are not pursuing chemo.
It’s to bad they didn’t debulk that tumor when they got the sample.

She tried her best to do that with the instrument she had but it was just "ripping", rather than pulling off like a polyp. But I agree, I sure wish she could have done that too. And my searches have turned up the same thing. It's a weird one.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

.
Hi Surfsidesindy and a very warm welcome to the forum !

Is there a Veterinary teaching College near enough to be accessible? If so, your Vets are likely to have professional connections there and, because this is such a rarity, they might have a special interest in taking on his case. In any event, Your Vets could likely make a direct referral for you. Here's a listing of those (US) Colleges: United States Veterinary Schools.

Quite unlike humans, cats manage chemotherapy/radiation quite well.

Besides forums like this, there are a number of specialized online info/support communities of folks focusing on the management of their cats' cancer. They have been active for years and, with thousands of members, have a collective knowledge base that's second to none. The best chances of finding other similar cases are here as are the best-informed answers to your questions. Three are on Facebook and one is 'freestanding':

• Feline Cancer Support
• The Feline Cancer Support Group
• Cats With Cancer (and allies) Support Group
• Feline (cat) Cancer Support Group

Personally, I don't feel there's going to be any value-for-money coming from an "online consultation".

Keep us updated!
.

Thank you so much, exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

Hi. I don't know where you are located or how it was determined that your only oncology option is with one that is an hour away and requires the presence of your cat, but I'd look into that aspect further from a different perspective. VCA hospitals often will do second opinion consults, and I believe they will do so initially without actually seeing the cat.

Maybe contact the VCS and see what options might be available to you?
Pet Owner Resources - Veterinary Cancer Society (vetcancersociety.org)

This might be another option to look into. I suspect since they have a 'pet owner' section and a 'vet' section, that perhaps your vet could/should look into it from their angle as well maybe to 'validate' the group. It looks like they supposedly do teleconferencing with vets and pet owners.
Pet Oncology for Vet Clinics | Pet Cancer Care Consulting

Thank you so much, I will look into these resources.

 

[silent meowlook]

She tried her best to do that with the instrument she had but it was just "ripping", rather than pulling off like a polyp. But I agree, I sure wish she could have done that too. And my searches have turned up the same thing. It's a weird one.

That’s too bad. Noses do bleed allot and it was wise of her to stop.
Do you have a copy of the pathology report? Can you post it?

 

[Surfsidesindy]

That’s too bad. Noses do bleed allot and it was wise of her to stop.
Do you have a copy of the pathology report? Can you post it?

 

[fionasmom]

I only have a couple things to add/concur with. Get the oncology consult. I have always done that for any of my dogs or cats who were faced with cancer. The $150 is in line with the price for that, but they may suggest additional studies which will exceed that amount. Those, of course, are up to you. I am not telling you to jump in your car with the cat as I don't know what the one hour drive might entail, but the hospital where my dog had all of his cancer treatment done was one hour away.

Major medical centers out here are doing online consults and if that is the best option, I would encourage you to do that. At least here, they are being treated as regular office visits, not overly short in duration, and very complete. The pathology reports should be available for the online consult however they request.

 

[silent meowlook]

Has your vet contacted the pathologist? The pathologist will consult with your vet at no additional charge.
I know it states low grade for malignancy, but tumors in this location are destructive.
I am sorry.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

Has your vet contacted the pathologist? The pathologist will consult with your vet at no additional charge.
I know it states low grade for malignancy, but tumors in this location are destructive.
I am sorry.

Thank you. Yes, the more reading I do, the more it sounds like surgery for these types of tumors does little to extend life expectancy and the surgery itself is so invasive, much worse than the rhinoscopy, it would not be worth it for palliative care, which is what we were interested in.

 

[silent meowlook]

I agree with you. That would be a very invasive surgery and without a CT scan you really do t know what you are dealing with.

I knew a cat who was miserable with nasal lymphoma. The owner didn’t want to do Chemo or radiation, understandably. The cat did have his sinuses flushed during the biopsy procedure and went home on Prednisolone, and also the owner nebulized him twice a day to start, then once a day, for 10 to 15 minutes with dexamethasone, saline, Acetylstine, This seemed to help him and his quality of life was good for over a year. He wasn’t expected to make it over 30 days.

I know that was with lymphoma, so a different cancer, but sometimes you can find a vet that thinks outside the box and come up with a plan that may help.

Please keep us posted on how things are going.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

I agree with you. That would be a very invasive surgery and without a CT scan you really do t know what you are dealing with.

I knew a cat who was miserable with nasal lymphoma. The owner didn’t want to do Chemo or radiation, understandably. The cat did have his sinuses flushed during the biopsy procedure and went home on Prednisolone, and also the owner nebulized him twice a day to start, then once a day, for 10 to 15 minutes with dexamethasone, saline, Acetylstine, This seemed to help him and his quality of life was good for over a year. He wasn’t expected to make it over 30 days.

I know that was with lymphoma, so a different cancer, but sometimes you can find a vet that thinks outside the box and come up with a plan that may help.

Please keep us posted on how things are going.

Thank you, I was curious about the nebulizer and personally think that might help. They did flush her sinuses and gave her a shot of prednisone after her procedure and she has been doing much better, but she is already starting to get congested again. I think I have to tallk to an onocolgist to see if prednisolone or an NSAID would be better for this particular type of tumor.

 

[white shadow]

.
Maybe you could 'tack' that question onto your presentation to one/some/all those support groups.
.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

Has your vet contacted the pathologist? The pathologist will consult with your vet at no additional charge.
I know it states low grade for malignancy, but tumors in this location are destructive.
I am sorry.

She did consult with the oncologist at ANTECH and they suggested to start Piper on Piroxicam for this particular tumor. We are going to wait a few more days to let the Depo Medrol shot wear off. Our vet doesn't think it would be a problem to go ahead and start now but Piper had a 1 mL shot of Depo Medrol 20 ml on January 5th, so thinking it may be best to give it at least a month before starting the NSAID.

 

[Surfsidesindy]

Hi all,
We got Piper into the oncologist Monday. Her weird cancer of "basaloid ductular carcinoma low grade" is basically a nasal carcinoma and that is how it would be treated. Piper is only 6 and she said they usually don't see this until after age 10. Surgery, radiation and chemo were not an option for us, so we were just there to get advice for palliative care and to better understand her cancer. Luckily, it is not supposed to be painful, but it makes her nasal passage uncomfortable and causes congestion, like her sinuses are trying to "rid the cancer", like they would "rid a cold", causing congestion. Her regular vet wanted to start her on Piroxicam but I had major reservations with that potentially affecting how she feels and her appetite. She had a shot of Depo Medrol after her rhinoscopy which seemed to really help her, so I was more interested in pursuing a steroid versus NSAID. Luckily, we got into the oncologist early because she totally agreed that the Prednisolone would bring her more relief and we started her on that last night in the form of a 5 mg cat treat which she THANKFULLY gobbled right down. The Oncologist says prognosis is 1 - 2 months, so keeping her comfortable with lots of love and treats is our plan. My questions are about the use of Claritin for cats. Could that possibly help her situation with the congestion? Or a nebulizer? Someone said they knew a cat with a nasal tumor who was on dex, saline and acetylstine via a nebulizer and that really helped. Thanks for all the support here. So glad we got into the oncologist before starting Piroxicam. Sending hugs to everyone out there dealing with this horrible situation we're all dealing with.

 

[carrie640]

I am sorry I am in the same boat with Lucy. She was dx with cancer in her mouth. Normally , it's 1-3 months from diagnosis, but she, obviously, had this since AT LEAST October as that is when the symptoms started. Interesting about the steroid, though. We started that just prior to the diagnosis, but the vet decided due to her behaviors, she should go back on the Metacam. I wonder for comfort purposes if the steroid would be better. She had teeth extracted last week so maybe the initial pain was that and not the tumor. I am not fond of pain med, either, so maybe I will ask about the steroid. From my personal experiences, prednisone injections were near-immediate relief...much more than any pain med. can it work that way in cats, too?

 

[Surfsidesindy]

I am sorry I am in the same boat with Lucy. She was dx with cancer in her mouth. Normally , it's 1-3 months from diagnosis, but she, obviously, had this since AT LEAST October as that is when the symptoms started. Interesting about the steroid, though. We started that just prior to the diagnosis, but the vet decided due to her behaviors, she should go back on the Metacam. I wonder for comfort purposes if the steroid would be better. She had teeth extracted last week so maybe the initial pain was that and not the tumor. I am not fond of pain med, either, so maybe I will ask about the steroid. From my personal experiences, prednisone injections were near-immediate relief...much more than any pain med. can it work that way in cats, too?

Our oncologist did say that the prednisolone can also relieve pain. Was your vet concerned about Lucy's behavior on the steroid? Piper had a Depo Medrol prednisone shot after her rhinoscopy on 1/5/24. She acted a little wired-up the first couple days. The injection can stay in their system a long time, but each cat is different, so you don't really have any control on the dosage. We started her on the 5 mg cat treats daily yesterday but are hoping to reduce that to every other day, if possible, down the road. Her symptoms were starting to return but we had to wait at least a month after the shot to start the prednisolone. (even still we started it a couple days early). We'll see how it goes but I have read other stories of cats exceeding prognosis just on a steroid alone. It won't kill the tumor of course, but may extend their life expectancy a little bit. Good luck to you and Lucy. Such a hard thing to go through.