Nala Mixed Bengal?

Nalathemixed

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Nala has just turned 3 months and she is our princess. She's , a very playful, intelligent and energetic kitten. She's extremely sociable and very vocal, we got her around a month ago as a Half Bengal / Half Moggy. We're just looking for some reassurance and opinions on what you guys think. We really appreciate your reading time and we hope you love her as much as we do!
 

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AnSDRfanhere

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I see no Bengal, probably just a DSH brown mackerel tuxedo tabby. Bengals can't have white splotches on them.
 
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Nalathemixed

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I see no Bengal, probably just a DSH brown mackerel tuxedo tabby. Bengals can't have white splotches on them.
As mentioned she isn't fully bengal she is a mix indeed, and her features do not match that of a DSH brown mackerel tuxedo tabby at all. But thanks for your input for sure. 🤗
 

Maurey

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Any photos of her parents? What features do you feel don’t match a DSH without Bengal ancestry? Any closer shots of her head and nose? One of her spine (to tell for certain if she’s broken mackerel or a poorly defined spotted tabby) would be helpful as well.

Far as I can tell she’s a black based (brown) broken mackerel tabby DSH with white.
 
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Nalathemixed

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I'll look into getting those photos. Well further investigating them online I personally don't see a resemblance. I'm simply posting here to get an understanding of other people's perspective and opinion since I've been provided with the pedigree papers (GGCF) from her dad who is a snow bengal, this was also confirmed by the vet. Hence my shock as the 2 initial replies mention seeing "no Bengal" extremely weird.
 

Maurey

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I'll look into getting those photos. Well further investigating them online I personally don't see a resemblance. I'm simply posting here to get an understanding of other people's perspective and opinion since I've been provided with the pedigree papers (GGCF) from her dad who is a snow bengal, this was also confirmed by the vet. Hence my shock as the 2 initial replies mention seeing "no Bengal" extremely weird.
People will often lie about the father of a litter with a moggy mother to make the kittens worth more. Falsifying documents is also common. Reputable breeders wouldn’t cross a fertile male Bengal with a non-Bengal outside of the scope of the development of a new breed — there’s a reason people here are often skeptical of supposed Bengal crosses.
On average, vets don’t know much about breeds, either — what do you mean by the vet confirming it? I’ve had my papered MCO girl called a Siberian a couple times. She’s not up to show/breed quality, unlike her dad, but she’s still extremely obviously an MCO.

ETA: still not sure what you mean by not seeing a resemblance to DSH — they’re randombred cats without a breed standard, they can look vastly different. Your kitten’s head shape, ear set (and size), eye shape, and profile don’t look much like a bengal’s to me. Unless the stud doesn’t conform to breed standard well, she’d look more like a Bengal than she does if he were the father, imo.

here’s a DSH with a similar coat to your girl’s — she’s just cooler and lighter in tone
1625231701198.jpeg

And a broken mackerel with white from TCS Broken mackerel?
 
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cataholic07

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Yah people lie a lot when it comes to breeds, and there's really zero reason to breed a bengal to a dsh to be honest. I mean she could have some bengal/egyptian mau/savannah but I wouldnt say she is 50% bengal no. She would look more bengal like. Unfortunately I think the owner lied just to increase the sale price of the kittens. I see a ton of MC mixes, russian blue mixes etc on kijiji but they really dont have that high of a percentage of breeds in them.
 

goingpostal

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Showing papers doesn't mean much as you have no idea if the father actually is, even if that cat mated with the mother, it doesn't mean he was the only one or that he sired your kitten. There can be multiple fathers to a litter and people can claim whatever they like but if there's multiple unfixed cats running around including purebreds and moggies, it's not a reputable situation. Did they charge you for this kitten because it's quite a common scam to claim tabbies of all patterns as part Bengal or part Savannah either to make money off them or to get them moved faster. Your kitten may be a Bengal mix, I don't see anything in her appearance that would lead me to believe that.
 

Silver Crazy

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Nala has just turned 3 months and she is our princess. She's , a very playful, intelligent and energetic kitten. She's extremely sociable and very vocal, we got her around a month ago as a Half Bengal / Half Moggy. We're just looking for some reassurance and opinions on what you guys think. We really appreciate your reading time and we hope you love her as much as we do!
Looks exactly like a Tuxedo/Bengal cross we have in our Bengal club..yes..Bengals can have white on them and often do.
Has the correct head and body shape.
 

Reina’s Kittens

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People will often lie about the father of a litter with a moggy mother to make the kittens worth more. Falsifying documents is also common. Reputable breeders wouldn’t cross a fertile male Bengal with a non-Bengal outside of the scope of the development of a new breed — there’s a reason people here are often skeptical of supposed Bengal crosses.
On average, vets don’t know much about breeds, either — what do you mean by the vet confirming it? I’ve had my papered MCO girl called a Siberian a couple times. She’s not up to show/breed quality, unlike her dad, but she’s still extremely obviously an MCO.

ETA: still not sure what you mean by not seeing a resemblance to DSH — they’re randombred cats without a breed standard, they can look vastly different. Your kitten’s head shape, ear set (and size), eye shape, and profile don’t look much like a bengal’s to me. Unless the stud doesn’t conform to breed standard well, she’d look more like a Bengal than she does if he were the father, imo.

here’s a DSH with a similar coat to your girl’s — she’s just cooler and lighter in toneView attachment 386544
And a broken mackerel with white from TCS Broken mackerel?
That is sad that some breeders lie. I will say though that her cat looks way more Bengal than the cat in the photo you posted who definitely does not look Bengal. I don't think her cat resembles your cat in patterns, face or build. However, the face, head, ears of her cat def look Bengal. I would need to see more pics of her standing to see her build, but remember she is a mix so she doesn't need to look identical to a Bengal to be part Bengal.

As far as having white in areas that Bengals are not known to be Bengals, her kitty is a mix as she stated. As I once mentioned my mother's cat who you would never know was half Siamese...until he opened his mouth lol.
 

Maurey

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Bengals can have white on them and often do.
This is just blatantly not true, outside of mixes — high dominant white markings are pretty much always indicative of a mix outside of approved breeds, either in foundation F1-G3 or with later generation established Bengals, as white is considered a fault in the breed standard. Bengals will, rarely, have white crop up, due to some of the breeds used in their foundation, but it’ll always be minimal white, like a bit in the toes, or a locket on the chest that doesn’t have a genetic dominant link. This isn’t desirable, either, so good breeders will typically make an effort to rid their lines of it.
From the GCCF breed standard (I’ve bolded all that, imo, apply to this kitten). Cats with a well-bred Bengal parent look a lot like Bengals, so the fact that the kitten is supposedly a mix shouldn’t affect conformation as much as it does, imo. Unless the parent was BYB without consideration for standard, I guess. At a certain point, regardless of lineage, a cat is no longer of a breed in anything but name if it doesn’t conform to breed standard to an extreme where it can’t be recognized.
Withhold Certificates or First Prizes in Kitten Open Classes for:
1. Long, rough or coarse coat
2. Distinctly ticked coat
3. Tail tip not the required colour
4. Whip tail
5. Stomach not spotted (except in Blue-Eyed Snow kittens and Blue-Eyed Silver Snow)
6. Incorrect paw pad colour
7. Oriental head type, e.g. straight profile, large flared ears
8. Burmese head type, e.g. distinct nose break or 'stop'
9. Cobby or Abyssinian, Burmese or Oriental body type
10. White patches or spots other than those referred to in the Colour descriptions
11. Any defect as listed in the preface to this SOP booklet.
from CFA
DISQUALIFY: Rosetted/Spotted Tabby, Marble Tabby, Charcoal Tabby, Snow Tabby Patterns - Belly not patterned. Any distinct locket on neck, chest, abdomen, or anywhere else. Kinked, or other- wise deformed tail. Cow hocking. Crossed eyes.
From TICA
PENALIZE: Spots on body running together vertically forming a mackerel tabby pattern on spotted cats (though, imo, kitten looks more like a broken mackerel, hard to say for certain without seeing the spine); circular bulls-eye pattern on marbled cats; substantially darker point color (as compared to color of body markings) in Seal Sepia, Seal Mink, or Seal Lynx Point cats EXCEPT in the case of any Charcoal Sepia, Charcoal Mink or Charcoal Lynx Point cats. Any distinct locket on the neck, chest, abdomen or any other area.
 
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Reina’s Kittens

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Maurey Maurey I think you two are both saying the same thing in different ways. :)

Silver Crazy said that Bengals 'can have white on them' which is true as they technically can have white. She doesn't mention how much white, just that they can. Someone (in general) may look at photos of Bengals and notice some white here and there on them and think that Bengals can have white on them.

You, of course, are talking about the breed standard which as you know does not allow for any substantial white or any white at all on specific parts of the body.

Both Silver Crazy and Nalathemixed have mixes so of course their kittens will not look like 'show quality/breed standard' Bengals.

Also, I believe that if a kitty in a pure bred litter does not match a breed standard, it does not mean it is any less that particular breed, just that it might not be show quality.
 

Maurey

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Maurey Maurey I think you two are both saying the same thing in different ways. :)

Silver Crazy said that Bengals 'can have white on them' which is true as they technically can have white. She doesn't mention how much white, just that they can. Someone (in general) may look at photos of Bengals and notice some white here and there on them and think that Bengals can have white on them.
You, of course, are talking about the breed standard which as you know does not allow for any substantial white or any white at all on specific parts of the body.
I was correcting the idea that white on bengals was common (eta to clarify — white spotting doesn’t occur in bengals. Lockets and other minimal white can happen as a fault, and near-white base colours, like with snows, do happen). It can happen in pedigrees, but that’s exceedingly rare and undesirable, so bred away from. True Bengal mixes with white, and not mislabeled tabbies, are rare, and commonly BYB, though the occasional oops litter does happen.


Maurey Maurey
Also, I believe that if a kitty in a pure bred litter does not match a breed standard, it does not mean it is any less that particular breed, just that it might not be show quality.
Yes, but pet quality cats from a good breeder still look like the breed, and will match a lot of the breed standard — they’ll just have a few minor faults that wouldn’t matter to pet owners, like poor rosettes or wrong colour tone. Plus, a pet quality cat shouldn’t be used for stud — imo a breed quality cat’s offspring would look more like the breed, even if the queen was a domestic.
 

Reina’s Kittens

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Maurey Maurey I see what you mean, and you are teaching very valuable information about breed standards! In the world of Bengals, Bengals are not thought of as having white even if there is a tiny bit in accepted regions.

On the flip side though, if the average person googles images of Bengals (even well-known ones), many of the Bengals shown have white on their mouths and some near belly area etc., so to those who are not knowledgeable about breed standards, that could make it seem like white was common, but not in the way Bengal experts would consider it common because quantity and region make the distinction.

So, thank you again.:cheerleader: I just hope I was able to explain how / why an amateur, intermediate and an expert could potentially describe the same cat differently. :biggrin:
 
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