My Persian Queen Is On Her Way To Kittens!

[purrshunn]

Hi all,

I know this is the wrong forum to post to but I can not post to the breeding section. I am a beginner at breeding CFA registered Persians. I own three Persians, one two year old and one 6 month old and one male. The older female (Lulu) is a CFA Grand Champion, the kitten (Daisy) is CFA registered as well and then the male (Reeses) is CFA registered as well.

Now that we got that out of the way, let me start by saying I am so excited because last night after putting the cats all in my bedroom, because we painted one of the living room walls. We started hearing loud scratching and meowing in the bedroom! Come to find out the male was literally mounting Lulu and would not stop for about 3 hours...it went on until 2am and then started again at 4am until about 6am. They may have done it again while I was out most of the day and then when I came home I found them in my bedroom going at it! I sound like a school girl, but I am just so excited because we have been waiting for about 5 months now for this to happen. The male was only about 1 year and 3 months at that time and now he's closer to 2 years.

So I want to ask all the experts out there, because I am new to this and need some "medical/scientific" knowledge even though I work in healthcare to make sure this is a done deal! How many times does it need to happen in order for the female to become successfully pregnant? It has maybe happened already about 5-6 times but I can't really tell if he's finishing in her or what have you because she seems to move around a lot. She does scream at the end though and then rolls around the floor vigorously. We woke up at one point to her screaming and then rolling around and we walked by her and she did not seem phased or timid by that...So please any insight would help! How long will this go on for? I do work early hours so putting them in other parts of the house is fine, its just very loud if you know what i mean...

Thank you all!

 

[abyeb]

Hi there! One mating is usually enough for a female cat to become pregnant. (See posts 2 and 7 from this thread: How quick is a successful mating?)

 

[talkingpeanut]

Please separate them! It’s not ok to leave them alone and mating for hours. This is painful and unnecessary for your female.

Do you have a breeding mentor to guide you through this? Persians can have difficult births.

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, stop the mating! They have already mated enough. She could end up with a huge litter and that would be dangerous and unhealthy for both mom and the kittens.

P purrshunn

 

[Sarthur2]

Have you spayed the 6-month-old yet?

The male will impregnate her soon too if not.

 

[jen]

Oh gosh separate the poor girl. She screams because it is so incredibly painful, he is going to hurt her. I agree to keep the 6 month old away from her as well, better yet neuter him.

 

[lutece]

First of all, you really do need a mentor, especially if you are breeding Persians. Because of their head structure, Persians are more likely to require assistance during labor and delivery of the kittens, so you must have at least one other breeder with Persian experience that you can call for advice. Do you have a breeding mentor yet? Do you need help finding one?

Most breeders limit matings to just one or two days, for the practical reason that it is easier to estimate the due date when you know precisely when matings occurred. So it's a good idea to separate them at this point, if you haven't already done so.

It is not clear whether multiple matings result in a bigger litter than you would have had with just one mating. Many breeders encourage multiple matings over the course of one or two days, because very small litters (one or two kittens) can result in bigger individual kittens that may be more difficult for the mother to deliver. In any case, if your female does become pregnant, I would encourage you to have her x-rayed later in the pregnancy so that you can estimate the litter size.

I think we don't really know what female cats experience when they are breeding. It is an intense experience for them, but I think they probably experience both pain and pleasure. Most female cats make a yowling sound when they are bred, but lots of humans are noisy during sex too. I have seen lots of cat sex over the years... as long as the male is gentle and the breeding is consensual, the females usually want to do it again pretty soon afterwards, and they usually display genuine affection with the male. Some males are not as gentle with the females and frighten or upset them, but most males I have seen are pretty sweet.

 

[jen]

We have been telling you since March or April, you need to find a mentor to do this properly. You need to do more research and experience it through your mentor before starting this journey on your own. As that's what this is, a journey. Your whole life should be focused on this, to learning all you can about Persians and more importantly how to PROPERLY breed them. It sounds like you have a ways to go.

Breeding is an incredibly expensive hobby. If you are doing everything right you aren't in it to make money from the kittens. Have your Persians been cleared of PKD and HCM and any other genetic conditions Persians are prone to? Are you aware of these health issues?

You need to have a vet ready during this pregnancy for ultrasounds, a mentor on hand to help as Persians often have a hard time during birth and you may need an emergency vet visit. Are you ready for all this? You keep asking questions but you haven't taken much of our advice. You said previously that you couldn't afford a mentor because you spent so much on these cats. Will be ready for an emergency c-section at 3am? All this is incredibly expensive.

Just some things to think about. These are purebred Persians. You should be doing everything you can to make this go smoothly.

 

[purrshunn]

Ok thanks for the info everyone! I’ve looked into mentors before but feel like doing research or talking to breeders in the area is enough.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Ok thanks for the info everyone! I’ve looked into mentors before but feel like doing research or talking to breeders in the area is enough.

P purrshunn - Although the question is most rudimentary, you have typed and cross-matched the dam and sire, yes? Since one in seven Persians is Blood Type B, though rudimentary, it's immensely important.
.

 

[purrshunn]

I’m sorry...I work in medicine and I don’t even understand that statement...

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I’m sorry...I work in medicine and I don’t even understand that statement...

P purrshunn - With all due respect, I believe that lutece is correct in that having a mentor is essential for young breeders - and especially for certain breeds. Please read this article with the utmost care:

Feline blood groups and blood incompatibility | International Cat Care

and immediately have blood samples drawn from your dam and sire to determine their blood types. This should have been done when both cats' genetic predisposition to Polycystic Kidney Disease - and when the ultrasounds were done to check for the presence of genetic Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy - were performed.
.

 

[purrshunn]

They’re both negative for PKD and HC. I have all of there vet records and CFA registrations from the original owner. My real question now is if she really is pregnant? They haven’t been breeding since about Sunday or last week, so I’m assuming she has stopping her heat cycle and become pregnant.

 

[purrshunn]

Hi everyone, been talking to the vet and working with a local breeder to help me along my first kitten journey. So she is about 15 days pregnant, and just yesterday her and my male were going at it again. So I was super confused because I am pretty sure she is pregnant from the fact they hadn't been doing it since July 14. The vet said that she can be bred any day in her heat even if she was pregnant after the first few times...Still don't really notice any physical change in her body, but have been feeding her kitten food.

 

[lutece]

If she is back in heat, she probably did not get pregnant the first time.

 

[purrshunn]

hmm alright, what can I do to make sure she gets pregnant? This is such a long waiting game. Should I put them in a room all day alone?

 

[jen]

I am no breeder so I don't know for sure but doesn't she deserve a break from his mating with her over and over? Especially if she isn't becoming pregnant. You realize how incredibly painful mating is for the female cat right?

 

[talkingpeanut]

No, you should not. As mentioned, you cannot leave them mating for a day or days at a time. It’s irresponsible. You will get kittens of different ages or an extremely large litter.

 

[purrshunn]

I mean thats why I paid out the butt for her and him, to breed. So until she's pregnant I won't stop letting nature do its thing. Plus, if he isn't getting all the way inside her and actually fertilizing her eggs then its kind of pointless to let it stop because thats what we need to create a newborn...

 

[purrshunn]

No, you should not. As mentioned, you cannot leave them mating for a day or days at a time. It’s irresponsible. You will get kittens of different ages or an extremely large litter.

yeah, but how do I know if she's actually pregnant? There isn't an actual pregnancy test for cats unless you test the hormone levels in there blood, and I am certainly not getting needles and withdrawing blood from my cat. I can only do that to humans, wasn't trained to take blood on feline specimens...