My kitty is sick

daftcat75

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One other thing. Ask for extra caps for the tube. For some reason, the cap wouldn't stay on the tube. Krista would shake her head and the cap would go flying. Luckily, I had extra caps. If you experience this, use some masking tape and ready a spare cap with tape each time you have to take the cap off just to make the whole process go smoother. Get a little cup to put the cap in along with your prepared syringes so you're not looking for anything while her esophagus is open to the world. Peruse that Kitty Kollar site. They have more tips and tricks to make feeding tubes easier to use and maintain.
 
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lilnana65

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Thank you for your replies, the vet doesn't seem to think Kesi will make it much past the weekend but I am trying to keep positive about this and hope that we can get her feeling better
 

daftcat75

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The feeding tube is definitely the best thing for her right now to keep her nutrition up when she's not feeling well. You'll mind the tube more than her. The only time Krista minded the tube was if I fed too fast or too cold. In both cases, I got instant feedback and learned from it. Otherwise, she quickly learned the routine and sat calmly through feedings.

Because yours isn't feeling well, you'll probably want to do frequent small feedings at first.

Cats are resilient and I sure hope yours proves the vet wrong.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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I HAVE had a cat with Fatty Liver, and the feeding tube is the absolute only way to go in my opinion :alright:. The chances with Fatty Liver are about 50/50, so it is very serious, but can be beat. Some cats whose numbers are about the worst I've ever seen have survived, so you just never know. And, as daftcat75 daftcat75 said, the key is to warm the food and go nice and slow. Too fast and it will all come right back up. I hope they gave you some anti-nausea meds to give her, along with antibiotics and liver supplements. Did they also give you some Hill's A/D or Royal Canin Recovery food to use? I'm hoping the Vet gave you a schedule of how much to feed each feeding, and how often, etc.

I hope the Vet is wrong and that she makes a complete recovery. Just know it's she has a long road ahead of her. My guy was on the feeding tube for four months, although I think that was NOT the norm. One or two months may be more like it. Oh, and the KittyKollar is definitely worth checking into. I would get that in a heartbeat if we ever need another feeding tube around here.

:vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

Furballsmom

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As you're hearing here, think positive--we are sending you all tons of love and prayers!!
 
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lilnana65

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Another update since bringing her home from vet. So she has the feeding tube in, they don't want us giving her anything through it tonight as they had given her two feeding since the tube was inserted and no vomiting so far. She did pee a good amount as they had given her fluids all day so I am sure she had a very full bladder. We will take her back tomorrow for more hydration and they will feed her via feeding tube tomorrow. I really pray she starts to come back from this soon, makes me so sad to see her so out of it and not feeling well.
 

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So sorry you and your kitty are going through this. Sending prayers and good vibes your way that she is much better soon!
 

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food and water is really what can save your kitty - there is a vicious cycle with animals not eating ... when they are not eating they start feeling awful ( and will not eat because of that ) .... if the feeding tube can get her enough fluids and food that she can normalize blood sugar and organ function ... there is a chance she'll start eating too. She should receive some type of treatment for inflamed stomach/intestines and possibly also something that reduces the stomach acid and ... pain meds after surgery. I have had a few situations where we never found out what caused the issue ( my vet calls that " cat got into something" syndrome) but after fluids and calories the animals started to feel better ... we usually try an antibiotic that works on the stomach , maybe a steroid if it looks somewhat auto immune and a dewormer if cat has been outside ... fluids/calories ... usually they do get better. Big hug to you - go slow and in tiny amounts very often with the feeding tube to start with ! ...
 
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lilnana65

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Update on my Kitty Kesi as of Sunday morning 10/11/2020, So there has been no real improvement since getting the feeding tube put in. I have had to take her back to the vet a couple of times since then because of constant vomiting and dehydration. They give her anti nausea medication via injection and give her fluids then we go back home. We are at a point now as to what to do next, do we just keep trying to feed her through the tube and do supportive care or just come to terms that she will not come back from this and it's time to say goodbye to her? I don't want her suffering anymore than she already has.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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This is just so sad. I really don't know how to advise you. You can't get any nourishment into her, it seems, since she is vomiting it back up. She remains dehydrated even with sub-q fluids. AND, the Vet can't find anything wrong with her that caused the issue in the first place, but now she has Fatty Liver. Fatty Liver CAN sometimes be overcome, but the underlying issues that caused it needs to be determined so it doesn't happen again. You don't know the underlying issue :frown:

When did they start the anti-nausea shots? Has she been getting them ever since she's been on the feeding tube? You said she did get two feedings while still at the Vet and she kept them down. Can you try to ascertain what the difference may be (temperature of food, amount of food, length of time to give it?)

How many sub-q fluids treatments have they given her?

Is she on any antibiotics? I'm guessing she is on something since she had exploratory surgery, but is she on one specifically because of the Fatty Liver as well?

Is she on anything for the Fatty Liver - Denamarin, Ursodial, Milk Thistle, Sam E, anything like that?

What does your Vet say at this point? I would ask them what they would do if this were they cat. Have them answer you frankly and honestly :alright:. They initially said they didn't think she would make it through the weekend, ask WHY? Get specifics. Then you can make an informed decision with no regrets.

if their answers lead to more questions, ask them. You need to feel 100% confident here that they're doing everything they can.
 
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lilnana65

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This is just so sad. I really don't know how to advise you. You can't get any nourishment into her, it seems, since she is vomiting it back up. She remains dehydrated even with sub-q fluids. AND, the Vet can't find anything wrong with her that caused the issue in the first place, but now she has Fatty Liver. Fatty Liver CAN sometimes be overcome, but the underlying issues that caused it needs to be determined so it doesn't happen again. You don't know the underlying issue :frown:

When did they start the anti-nausea shots? Has she been getting them ever since she's been on the feeding tube? You said she did get two feedings while still at the Vet and she kept them down. Can you try to ascertain what the difference may be (temperature of food, amount of food, length of time to give it?)

How many sub-q fluids treatments have they given her?

Is she on any antibiotics? I'm guessing she is on something since she had exploratory surgery, but is she on one specifically because of the Fatty Liver as well?

Is she on anything for the Fatty Liver - Denamarin, Ursodial, Milk Thistle, Sam E, anything like that?

What does your Vet say at this point? I would ask them what they would do if this were they cat. Have them answer you frankly and honestly :alright:. They initially said they didn't think she would make it through the weekend, ask WHY? Get specifics. Then you can make an informed decision with no regrets.

if their answers lead to more questions, ask them. You need to feel 100% confident here that they're doing everything they can.
She got the nausea injection the first day at the vet and this morning at vet. When they put the feeding tube in she was able to keep food down at the vet and she did keep it down for me last night until this mornings feeding then she vomited it up shortly after, so maybe I went to fast with the feeding, I have no idea.
She has had sub-q fluids nearly everyday.
she is not on any abx at all. She isn't on anything for the fatty liver either?

All the vet said was " Hopefully she will get better with the feeding's and to encourage her to try and eat on her own (which we have done with no luck). I did ask the vet if they have done everything they possibly could to try and find what is causing her to be so sick. They said they have done every test and poked and prodded her to find out what is going on.
Deep down I just feel like something is being missed, I just hate that covid has made it impossible to go into the vet office so I can see what they are really doing with her.
 

daftcat75

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She got the nausea injection the first day at the vet and this morning at vet. When they put the feeding tube in she was able to keep food down at the vet and she did keep it down for me last night until this mornings feeding then she vomited it up shortly after, so maybe I went to fast with the feeding, I have no idea.
She has had sub-q fluids nearly everyday.
she is not on any abx at all. She isn't on anything for the fatty liver either?

All the vet said was " Hopefully she will get better with the feeding's and to encourage her to try and eat on her own (which we have done with no luck). I did ask the vet if they have done everything they possibly could to try and find what is causing her to be so sick. They said they have done every test and poked and prodded her to find out what is going on.
Deep down I just feel like something is being missed, I just hate that covid has made it impossible to go into the vet office so I can see what they are really doing with her.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought they skipped the ultrasound and went straight to exploratory. If you feel like you’re missing something, it’s the ultrasound. It’s going to show what xrays cannot.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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OK, she should be on antibiotics, if nothing else because she has a large incision from the exploratory surgery, does she not. Can you check the paperwork to see if they gave her a shot of Convenia? That is an antibiotic shot, but i personally think she needs something stronger to try to work on whatever might be wrong, as was suggested above by flybear flybear . And she definitely needs liver supplements to help with the Fatty Liver. Are you in the U.S.? I'm just wondering if you're in a country that is not very good at treating small animals? can you try to find another Vet for a second opinion? Not necessarily about what caused this in the first place, but to try to get her through this crisis and then work on that! Nutrition is most needed for Fatty Liver, but supplements to help aid with healing the liver are very important as well. And while you've got that feeding tube, what better time to get them in her. You can use some over the counter supplements, but I don't know how much of them to advise you to use :frown:

As for her vomiting this morning, did the food come right back out after you fed her, or was it later on? I f it came right back up, you probably did go too fast or it wasn't warm enough and her tummy rejected it. That wouldn't really be nausea, so that might be a good sign. As for the dehydration, when she comes back to you, does she have a water balloon under the skin on her body from the fluids? She really should have if they are giving her any substantial amount. Did they discuss with you that you could do the fluids yourself? Many, many folks here on this forum have given their cats sub-q fluids themselves, including me. It's SO much cheaper than a vet visit. It seems daunting the first time you do it, but you just have to remember that you aren't hurting them, you are HELPING them.

Now that I know what you've just told us, I would hold off on doing anything other than a second opinion :hugs:
 
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lilnana65

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought they skipped the ultrasound and went straight to exploratory. If you feel like you’re missing something, it’s the ultrasound. It’s going to show what xrays cannot.
You are right, they went straight for the exploratory. The exploratory didn't show anything other than the fatty liver and enlarged gallbladder which they said was enlarged due to the fatty liver
 

daftcat75

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You are right, they went straight for the exploratory. The exploratory didn't show anything other than the fatty liver and enlarged gallbladder which they said was enlarged due to the fatty liver
The ultrasound would reveal if she has IBD or intestinal lymphoma which may not have been caught in exploratory depending on where they were exploring. I’m guessing. I’m not a vet. But this may be something to ask your vet or get a second opinion about.

Also ask about ursodiol for the gallbladder. That one was a liquid. Squirt it down the tube with food. Seemed to work pretty quickly for the gallbladder.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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How is she doing today? Better? Did you see my post from above at 4:57 p.m.?
 
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lilnana65

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OK, she should be on antibiotics, if nothing else because she has a large incision from the exploratory surgery, does she not. Can you check the paperwork to see if they gave her a shot of Convenia? That is an antibiotic shot, but i personally think she needs something stronger to try to work on whatever might be wrong, as was suggested above by flybear flybear . And she definitely needs liver supplements to help with the Fatty Liver. Are you in the U.S.? I'm just wondering if you're in a country that is not very good at treating small animals? can you try to find another Vet for a second opinion? Not necessarily about what caused this in the first place, but to try to get her through this crisis and then work on that! Nutrition is most needed for Fatty Liver, but supplements to help aid with healing the liver are very important as well. And while you've got that feeding tube, what better time to get them in her. You can use some over the counter supplements, but I don't know how much of them to advise you to use :frown:

As for her vomiting this morning, did the food come right back out after you fed her, or was it later on? I f it came right back up, you probably did go too fast or it wasn't warm enough and her tummy rejected it. That wouldn't really be nausea, so that might be a good sign. As for the dehydration, when she comes back to you, does she have a water balloon under the skin on her body from the fluids? She really should have if they are giving her any substantial amount. Did they discuss with you that you could do the fluids yourself? Many, many folks here on this forum have given their cats sub-q fluids themselves, including me. It's SO much cheaper than a vet visit. It seems daunting the first time you do it, but you just have to remember that you aren't hurting them, you are HELPING them.

Now that I know what you've just told us, I would hold off on doing anything other than a second opinion :hugs:
The only medications that were given to me to give her was in her first couple of days at the vet when they were trying to figure out what was going on with her, one was clindamycin for when they thought she might have toxo and another med I think it is an appetite stimulant but all that did was cause her to vomit even more. They did give her an antibiotic shot the first day she was there a week ago.as well as giving her a anti nausea injection.
I will call the vet office and ask about the liver supplement as you mentioned. Yes I am in the US. Yes I think I did accidently go to fast in the feeding that caused her to vomit it right back up, so now I have slowed the feedings. I also found it very odd that the vet said to only give her 3ml of the slurry food mix followed by 3ml of water to flush it every 6 hours, that just doesn't seem like enough nutrition for her, so I have increased it to every 2 hours as that is what they were doing at the vet anyways and she seems to be keeping it down so far. I would love to give her fluids on my own and will ask about this on Wednesday when her vet will be back in. I have been giving her a little bit of water by mouth through a syringe, she doesn't like this at all.

Today Monday 10/12/2020 not much change, she continues to be very withdrawn and sleeps alot. She does get up to use the litter box, only pee though. normally she covers her pee but she doesn't have the energy to do so now, so just pee's and gets out of the box and back to bed. I have tried to get her to eat food by mouth but she gag's when I try. So that is where we are at today with things with her. Sure wish she would start to get better if she will at all.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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3 ml of food every 6 hours is so little food that I'm guessing she simply doesn't have the energy to do anything but sleep, poor thing. I know when they have not eaten in a long time, you need to reintroduce food slowly, but can increase the amount pretty much each day. Did your Vet not give any instructions to increase the amount day by day? This is just insane, IMHO. There is something called Refeeding Syndrome, but that is quite uncommon and normally only critically ill patients who are in hospital (yes I'm speaking cats here) would be prone to getting it. In any case, even those cats would be fed 5 - 10 calories per pound of cat per day for 2 - 3 days, and then increased.
(per https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/refeeding-syndrome/)

My cat with Fatty Liver started out with at least 30 cc's of food every four hours and I'm pretty sure that was just the first day. Then he went up to 60 cc's per meal after that. And he had it bad.

I would not even try to get her to eat anything on her own for quite some time yet. At least a week or two. You can tell that food is very off putting to her and she'll hopefully have plenty of time to get used to it again. Honestly, I don't see her getting better until she gets more food in her, and possibly stronger antibiotics (although those can cause side effects like nausea and/or diarrhea :frown: , and some liver supplements.

:vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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lilnana65

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3 ml of food every 6 hours is so little food that I'm guessing she simply doesn't have the energy to do anything but sleep, poor thing. I know when they have not eaten in a long time, you need to reintroduce food slowly, but can increase the amount pretty much each day. Did your Vet not give any instructions to increase the amount day by day? This is just insane, IMHO. There is something called Refeeding Syndrome, but that is quite uncommon and normally only critically ill patients who are in hospital (yes I'm speaking cats here) would be prone to getting it. In any case, even those cats would be fed 5 - 10 calories per pound of cat per day for 2 - 3 days, and then increased.

My cat with Fatty Liver started out with at least 30 cc's of food every four hours and I'm pretty sure that was just the first day. Then he went up to 60 cc's per meal after that. And he had it bad.

I would not even try to get her to eat anything on her own for quite some time yet. At least a week or two. You can tell that food is very off putting to her and she'll hopefully have plenty of time to get used to it again. Honestly, I don't see her getting better until she gets more food in her, and possibly stronger antibiotics (although those can cause side effects like nausea and/or diarrhea :frown: , and some liver supplements.

:vibes::vibes::vibes:
See that is the odd thing, they don't have her on any antibiotics, they told us to stop the clindimycian as they didn't think it was toxo after all as that is what the clindimycian was for. No the only directions were given to us were give her 3 ml of food followed by 3 ml of water every 4-6 hours. I increased it to 5ml tonight and she tolerated it well, so each day I will increase it. I also try and offer her food by mouth but she turns her head away or starts gagging. She has lost so much weight, it's so sad to see. They said her fatty liver was pretty bad.
 

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Hi @lilnanna65 !

Just a 'yellow caution flag' for you here................

There's a danger 'hanging in the air' when dealing with Fatty Liver Disease - feeding amounts are determined by the degree of the illness - and must be carefully determined - the danger lies in overfeeding. Please do follow the Vet's advice for correct amounts !

It doesn't matter 'a hoot in hades' what or how much someone else gave their cat who had Fatty Liver - it does matter the degree of disease your own cat has/is in.

This danger is known as "Re-feeding Syndrome".........with this disease, the cat's liver, in the absence of adequate amounts of food, has attempted to draw on her own body fat for energy. Now, cats are the only mammals who don't 'do' this very well. You and I could manage fairly well if stranded on the ol' desert island without food - our livers would draw body fat, metabolize it for energy and we'd survive (albeit emaciated). Not so our cats. Their livers will attempt to do this but, because cats' livers lack the enzymes required, the liver itself absorbs the fat and becomes fatty - hence the name FL.

It's important therefore to start with small amounts, and then gradually, slowly, increase the amounts, giving the liver the chance to recover.

Meantime, do discuss the amounts with the Vet - open discussion about your concerns/questions are everything. Just understand how this condition is best managed.

Hope that helps.
.
 
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