My 12 year old chubby cat has suddenly lost her appetite and is sleeping constantly

[catwoman707]

I just got off the phone with Krissy's vet checking in to see how she's doing.

Interestingly, while she said there is no real way to know what caused all of this, she does agree with me that since her eosinophils last December were high, she clearly has a food allergy/sensitivity. Gone unaddressed, it may very well have caused all of this inflammation....

So this has happened over time, and she wants to just continue with the food change, even said that the dry alone is fine. (not by me but...) Since she eats it well.

Recheck her urine in a month, making sure that her urine is not dilute as much as it was this last time, making sure her kidneys are fine. (?)

It's sort of a catch 22 here though, if she is drinking alot of water then naturally it will be more dilute, and has nothing to do with kidneys.

Kidney values on blood tests look good, as they did with her ultrasound.

So I don't know, does she not have IBD? Is it inflammation only and appears like IBD? 

I hate all this guesswork, and hate the waiting part too. I like things black and white, at least when it comes to my cats! 

Just feels so maybe-ish, try this and see, ugh, where's my patience?!! 

Like I want to wait for 3 months more of doing almost nothing to see if the dry food alone will make her inflammation go away. Feeling frustrated again I guess...

 

[denice]

Very few people get a clear diagnoses with IBD.   Often it's the question of whether it's still IBD or has crossed over to small cell lymphoma.  Even a negative biopsy isn't necessarily definitive.  As with allergies a lot of it is trial and error.  I really think that the IBD diagnoses is more a catch all for chronic digestive issues when all other possibilities have been eliminated.

 

[bonepicker]

Very few people get a clear diagnoses with IBD.   Often it's the question of whether it's still IBD or has crossed over to small cell lymphoma.  Even a negative biopsy isn't necessarily definitive.  As with allergies a lot of it is trial and error.  I really think that the IBD diagnoses is more a catch all for chronic digestive issues when all other possibilities have been eliminated.

I still say try no dry and feed no grain canned and see if there is improvement. Mine did 100 degree turn around

 

[denice]

I still say try no dry and feed no grain canned and see if there is improvement. Mine did 100 degree turn around

What works differs from cat to cat.  I did 6 years of trying different proteins, grain-free, food with only rice as a grain, as well as holistic remedies.  Patches continued to have flares bad enough to require hospitalization on an IV.  There were no rhyme or reason to his flares.  I even tried constantly running multiple Feliway diffusers, an expensive thing to do, thinking that stress was a major contributor.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

 
Very few people get a clear diagnoses with IBD.   Often it's the question of whether it's still IBD or has crossed over to small cell lymphoma.  Even a negative biopsy isn't necessarily definitive.  As with allergies a lot of it is trial and error.  I really think that the IBD diagnoses is more a catch all for chronic digestive issues when all other possibilities have been eliminated.

i agree.

 

[catwoman707]

 
Very few people get a clear diagnoses with IBD.   Often it's the question of whether it's still IBD or has crossed over to small cell lymphoma.  Even a negative biopsy isn't necessarily definitive.  As with allergies a lot of it is trial and error.  I really think that the IBD diagnoses is more a catch all for chronic digestive issues when all other possibilities have been eliminated.

I think it's basically a catch all as well, I found a really helpful bit of info today that was very defining in types of IBD, the 3 wbc that can be the culprit, and which cell means what, and why.

It also ....well here it is, VERY good clear facts. 

http://www.allfelinehospital.com/inflammatory-bowel-disease.pml

The more I understand about IBD, and the fact that Krissy's ultrasound showed thickened bowel loops (in report says GI mucosa diffusely thickened with edema so this is not new, it's been going on for some time.

This is scary because as I started to say, the more I learn about this the more I see that it can cause small cell lymphoma. 

I can't find any info on just how long theyre talking for this to possibly happen though. I mean, 2 years, 10 years? Ugh.

Anyone have an idea of how I can cook this ground turkey meant so that it tastes good and she will eat it?

I still say try no dry and feed no grain canned and see if there is improvement. Mine did 100 degree turn around

I would LOVE to say no dry and canned only, grain free limited, her main diet was canned before, but Krissy is eating the dry and refuses the canned, so that's where I'm stuck.

 

[stephenq]

Sometimes getting an accurate Dx of IBD is very challanging and you treat the symptoms on the presumption until either it gets better or worse....

My cat also has kidney issues and my vet explained that his dilute urine was more dilute than drinking lots of water would explain.....

 

[catwoman707]

Well she based her diagnosis on the ultrasound for the inflammation in her pancreas, lymph nodes, and thickened bowel loops.

So inflammation in 3 areas.

The lack of diarrhea/vomiting and her having a good appetite point more towards a temporary situation rather than an ongoing permanent one, but that means getting that inflammation down with diet........

Do you happen to remember your cat's spec. gravity? Prob not but that's okay, just looking for details that help reassure me

Okay just looked at Krissy's again, it's not THAT dilute to me at least.

 

[stephenq]

I don't but it was indicative of at least 50% loss of kidney function.  It sounds like your cat has Tri-itis, a condition where you have 3 organs with inflammation.  My cat has two, bowel and pancreas. 

 

[catwoman707]

Krissy isn't feeling well again

I'm beginning to wonder why her vet is holding off on prednisolone short term.

She mentioned it for 10 days, but why is she holding out?

It sounds to me like this is a faster way of getting the inflammation down.

Are there effects I don't know about?

 

[denice]

A lot of vets are hesitant to give steroids.  Cats generally tolerate steroids very well.  They actually normally tolerate steroids much better than dogs, I sometimes wonder if general vets are hesitant to give them to cats because dogs do often experience side effects from steroids.  The most common side effect is diabetes which sometimes comes with long term use.  They can also bring a hidden cardiac issue to light but they don't cause the issue they just make it noticeable.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@catwoman707 -- i've been trying to keep up with new posts in this thread, and think i'm all caught up. my snick had some severe vomiting that started last tuesday and continued through most of friday, but that we seem to have finally turned the corner and she's starting to feel better now. still taking things slowly and carefully, but i'm cautiously optimistic.

i'm so sorry that your krissy isn't feeling well again.

it might be something to discuss with your vet to try giving krissy a daily dose of pepcid ac to see if that could help calm things down (and keep it calm) for her. when my snick has a flare up (and her recent gastro upset with severe vomiting), i give snick pepcid ac daily. at the moment i'm giving snick 1/4 tablet of pepcid ac dissolved into a very small amount of water 3 times per day (every 8 hours), and syringed into her mouth. in my experience pepcid ac can really work wonders at calming upset kitty gastro systems.

my snick was on prednisone (not prednisolone) long term, for about a year or so. we did blood work every two months, and snick did become borderline diabetic. we caught it from the blood work results and immediately gradually reduced snick's prednisone until she was off of it. we were very lucky that snick didn't get to the point that she had full-blown diabetes, because our vet told me that once they become diabetic stopping the prednisone doesn't reverse the diabetes. i home tested snick's urine for two full months after she was completely off the prednisone, checking for glucose in her urine -- a sign that snick had become diabetic. we were very lucky that snick didn't become diabetic. our vet told me that snick had the risk of becoming diabetic for two months after she was (gradually) taken off the prednisone.

my understanding is that it's long term use of prednisone that can cause diabetes, but that that doesn't happen for all cats. there is a risk though.

 

[catwoman707]

Thank you Denice and Micknsnicks2mom.

She did mention diabetes is possible, makes me wonder if she thinks she may be one to get it since she is overweight.....

She did only say for perhaps 10 days, a very short term treatment, yet chose to hold off.

Interesting.

Hope Snick is feeling better!

I gave Krissy 1/4 tab today of pepcid, I don't usually except for days like today where she clearly was having a bit of a worse day. She did her morning rounds in the backyard and came in, shortly after barfed a couple blades of grass. Poor thing.

She was napping behing the open front door all day today, one of those hidey days.

She still won't sleep with me at night, and has nightly ever since she was a newborn. Hurts my feelings, I even put a water bowl on the bed for her, and put her up there, she will lay there with her head on the dish for maybe a half hour, then hops down to go off and sleep by herself.

Hate it guys

 

[goholistic]

I'm sorry that Krissy isn't feeling well again. What are you observing? What are her symptoms? I guess her not sleeping with you is a sign that something is off.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@catwoman707 -- thank you! yes, i think snick is definitely starting to feel better now.

my snick had been sleeping with me every night until she had this most recent gastro upset. the second day of the gastro upset, snick did curl up on my lap for a while until she felt more vomiting come along. i miss snick snuggling in bed with me at night too. i think that once my girl is feeling better she'll resume sleeping in bed with me at night. she's started to nap in some of her favorite spots again. i think maybe snick couldn't feel comfortable basically anywhere she lay while she was feeling poorly. so it may be that once your krissy is feeling better, she'll feel up to settling in one place to sleep at night and be in sleeping with you each night again.

it might be worth trying to give krissy 1/4 tab pepcid daily for several days or so. for my snick, she needs the pepcid to calm her upset gastro system and keep it calming down. my girl usually gets a "maintenance dose" of 1/4 tab pepcid every 10th day, but i don't hesitate to give the pepcid more frequently when snick needs it. after the flare up/gastro upset has calmed down and stayed calmed down for at least several days, i will then gradually reduce the pepcid frequency until she's back to taking it every 10th day.

 

[bonepicker]

Just a thought my cat went outside and had negative stool samples but continued to vomit so I requested she be wormed by vet and also switched from frontline to revolution (fleas and worms) I also stopped letting her outside and she stopped vomiting (also switched to grain free canned only). Just a thought this info could be helpful since my cat went from daily vomiting to nothing now for 2.5 months.

 

[stephenq]

Cats tolerate Pred better than dogs and maybe better than humans.   For most cats, the only real short side effect is improvement .  However pred can "unmask" underlying infections as it does lower the immune system, and in some cats can lead to diabetes or worsening heart disease or worsening kidney disease if already prone.  For what it's worth, my cat has kidney disease and minor cardiomyopathy and was closely monitored for both when he started pred with no complications at 5mg/day.

A good article is at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=622

And this is a summery:

When prednisone/prednisolone is used routinely, serious side effects are not expected. 

When doses become immune-suppressive (higher doses) or use becomes chronic (longer than 4 months on an every other day schedule), the side effects and concerns associated become different.  In these cases, monitoring tests may be recommended or, if possible, another therapy may be selected.

 

[catwoman707]

 
I'm sorry that Krissy isn't feeling well again. What are you observing? What are her symptoms? I guess her not sleeping with you is a sign that something is off.

So Krissy's changes have been like this.

Many months back, nearly a year ago actually, she starting being crabbier, sleeping habits were changing, so I took her to have a checkup and blood panel.

All looked good except her eos were high, we did a fecal, etc and concluded it was a food allergy.

That vet recommended benadryl, which I was against, to me that is putting a bandage over the cause.

Then a few months ago, she suddenly was sick, vomiting, stopped eating, hiding, sleeping constantly.

Took her to a new vet, she assumed pancreatitis, did another blood panel, etc and gave her baby food and pepcid for a couple days, gave her 6 days of clavamox but her tummy was NOT good with that, so stopped that one, she got better, was eating again, etc. but not completely well again, just could tell.

What remained was her obsession with water, sleeping by herself off someplace different, and crabby. 

Had her ultrasound done, she has inflammation in her bowels, intestines, pancreas. Likely due to a food allergy/reaction that has gone on for some time.

Occasionally she seems to feel better, other days she seems to feel not so hot.

Changed her food to BB limited turkey/potato DRY, as she won't eat the canned. Once in a while like yesterday, give her pepcid. 

Still not feeling so hot today.

This is stressing me out, I feel like I'm doing nothing, at least not enough to help her, and I fear it's a matter of time before more damage is done. Lymphoma, scarring, etc can come from her not getting this settled asap.

Feeling helpless

 

[stephenq]

Is she still vomiting? How often?  Have you tried a course of oral cerenia daily? Plus Sub Q fluids at home and sub q cerenia if an attack hits?

As you know my Simon has Pancreatitis and IBD (among other things)  And whenever he got an attack we would do the fluids and sub Q cerenia and he would be better in a few hours, and in addition we had him on the standard oral cerenia protocal of 4 days on and 1 day off but it was that one day off that seemed to be leading to new attacks (I was tracking his health on a calendar), so our vet gave permission to go on 7day/week cerenia given that the dose is low to begin with and he hasn't had an attack since and he's "overdue" given his past schedule of attacks.

Bad pancreatitis is also painful so on one occasion we gave him oral buprenorphine (sp?).

 

[catwoman707]

 
Is she still vomiting? How often?  Have you tried a course of oral cerenia daily? Plus Sub Q fluids at home and sub q cerenia if an attack hits?

As you know my Simon has Pancreatitis and IBD (among other things)  And whenever he got an attack we would do the fluids and sub Q cerenia and he would be better in a few hours, and in addition we had him on the standard oral cerenia protocal of 4 days on and 1 day off but it was that one day off that seemed to be leading to new attacks (I was tracking his health on a calendar), so our vet gave permission to go on 7day/week cerenia given that the dose is low to begin with and he hasn't had an attack since and he's "overdue" given his past schedule of attacks.

Bad pancreatitis is also painful so on one occasion we gave him oral buprenorphine (sp?).

No vomiting.

The only time she did have it is when it reached it's peak point, and also from the clavamox as her tummy is obviously too upset to handle clavamox.

Otherwise, no vomiting, never any diarrhea.