Muffin - Bad news vet visit today

[barbb]

Hi, I just posted in another thread about raw food too. I keep recommending Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw, bc i think for anyone like me whose cat is suddenly diagnosed with something really bad, switching to raw seems like a really big deal on top of everything else. Whereas the freeze dried S&C food doesn't have to be refrigerated, it comes in a bag that you can put with your other cat food, and it can be used in place of crunchies OR mix it with some warm water and viola, it is ready 

.  

It is more money but in comparison to all the money put into our already sick cat, it has been well worth the expense. Toby really loves this food. We are also feeding him regular grain free wet food. The raw food fills him up and he can eat less of it when he isn't in the mood to eat (which is rarely, but there are times now and then). 

Anyhow I just wanted to add my thoughts to what Carolina said. 

I was given the metronidazole too, my vet said it is for a situation where the meds he is taking wipes away the mucosal lining in his intestines. So far that has not happened, but I just wanted to share my understanding. 

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

I haven't posted in a while about Muffin.  He is still struggling with appetite issues.  I agreed to try him with a ten day treatment of metrodazinole (not sure of spelling).  He started that on Tuesday.  So far, I can't see any change in his appetite.  We are going to the vet on Monday for a recheck of the thyroid.  I am going to discuss at that time trying to find something else to feed Muffin.  He is currently eating c/d prescription, kibble and some wet with Forti Flora one time a day.  Carolina and someone else have suggested to me a diet of freeze dried food.  What I am asking here is where do I buy it and is it terrible expensive.  Also I don't know much about it so I need to know some pros for when I talk to my vet about a diet for Muffin.  My cat now eats a little of his food, sits at the door and begs for something else. lt is tearing up my nerves.  Help and suggestions here please so I can sound at least a little bit educated on Monday.

 

[jezahb]

I just bought essentially the entire pet stores high quality wet food section when Cricketa was sick after her surgery to try and find something she liked. Everything about Muffin sounds exactly like Cricketa. However she was healthy right until I noticed she had a mass in her abdomen. My vet gave me the same options he did you after the x-ray confirmed a mass (lower than Muffins) and I decided on incredibly expensive exploratory surgery. She had surgery, it went well and he removed the mass with clean borders and saw no other masses. Pathology said it was Lymphoma but the slow growing easily treated kind, she left the vet 2 days later feeling good. Ate like a horse while on the pain meds, but appetite dwindled as she came off the pills and she lost even more  weight. 

My story doesn't end happy however, as Cricketa developed anemia and slipped into a coma. Shortly after she was put to sleep much to my heartbreak. HOWEVER, this is not at all to say this will happen to Muffin as while seemingly similar your boy has liver cancer and Cricketa had Lymphoma. I am more writing this because, well 

 I know EXACTLY how you are feeling right now. Helpless and a even a bit exhausted, you probably hoped and let yourself believe that after the surgery the hard part would be over. I lost Cricketa in May so I remember it clearly.

I am so sorry he is still having no appetite, and I have little to suggest beyond what others did. Baby food is amazing in its ability to make cats eat, so is deli turkey and water packed tuna. As far as a permanent food, from what I know and believe, Orijen is the best. I personally feed Blue Buffalo because I work for them, and love the idea of antioxidant bits having just lost my girl to cancer, but I know Orijen is probably better. Just give him whatever he will eat, at this point he already has cancer so its more you looking for a few more comfortable years not a lifetime...so if crap food is all he will eat then give it to him in my humble opinion.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Jezahb, thanks for the suggestions.  I am so sorry what you have been through.  Yes I am feeling very helpless and exhausted with it all right now.  To complicate matters, Muffin was diagnosed hyperthyroid at the same time the liver tumor was found.  He was already eating the c/d prescription kibble because of his past history with urinary blockages.  I have to consider all that.  Or at least that is what the vet is trying to do for now.  I don't want to feed him stuff and get him blocked up so he can't pee.  I don't really; know what kind of diet is needed for a hyperthyroid cat.  I just need some serious help in finding something that will work.

 

[detmut]

Jezahb, thanks for the suggestions.  I am so sorry what you have been through.  Yes I am feeling very helpless and exhausted with it all right now.  To complicate matters, Muffin was diagnosed hyperthyroid at the same time the liver tumor was found.  He was already eating the c/d prescription kibble because of his past history with urinary blockages.  I have to consider all that.  Or at least that is what the vet is trying to do for now.  I don't want to feed him stuff and get him blocked up so he can't pee.  I don't really; know what kind of diet is needed for a hyperthyroid cat.  I just need some serious help in finding something that will work.

could give this a try:

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/09/treating-hyperthyroid-cats-with-iodine.html

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesconditionscat/a/Feline-Hyperthyroidism-Hills-Y-D-Diet.htm

 

[orientalslave]

Think a recheck of the thyroid and liver / kidney levels is essential.  A few cats lose their appetite if T4 is too high rather than eat ravenously.  And I wonder if he is in pain?  Being hyperthyroid in itself doesn't require a special diet.

 

[tjcarst]

Ask your vet for some k/d - prescription.

My picky kitty would eat this when she would not eat anything else when sick.
 

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

I am writing down these suggestions so I can have some options when we go Monday.  Muffin wouldn't eat the dry food this morning.  I mixed the wet with the Forti Flora and he stil wouldn't eat.  I am frustrated and very open to suggestions to see what has worked for others.

Thanks.

 

[kittylover23]

for you and Muffin! I've been watching this thread lately and I just wanted to send some loving vibes to you guys. I hope your baby Muffin will be okay. My kitty Candy had kidney cancer, and my other kitty Bobby had hyperthyroidism.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Some Answers for Muffin:  He weighed 9.4 # the 25th of June.  Today he weighs 9 #'s.  We went for some bloodwork today.  All of it is good.  His thyroid is actually just below the normal mark now.  His Alt number was in the 300's when his surgery was done.  Now it is 150 with the high normal being 100.  So his liver is in better shape.  This is the plan.  Stop the metrodazinole since no improvement is seen.  Continue for now with 1/4 tab of the methimazole.  Stop the dry W/D food since he isn't eating any of it now.  I came home with more of the C/D wet and some of the Y/D wet.  The Y/D is a food that trreats thyroid issues..  They can eat that with nothing else.  I am going to try to introduce Muffin slowly to the Y/D to see if we can get him transtitioned to that food.  My vet is going to do some research to see about taking him totally off the Methimazole if he will eat the food.  Fingers and toes crossed please eveyone and prayers too.  Thanks. 

 

[jcat]

More for Muffin.

 

[simka]

Some Answers for Muffin:  He weighed 9.4 # the 25th of June.  Today he weighs 9 #'s.  We went for some bloodwork today.  All of it is good.  His thyroid is actually just below the normal mark now.  His Alt number was in the 300's when his surgery was done.  Now it is 150 with the high normal being 100.  So his liver is in better shape.  This is the plan.  Stop the metrodazinole since no improvement is seen.  Continue for now with 1/4 tab of the methimazole.  Stop the dry W/D food since he isn't eating any of it now.  I came home with more of the C/D wet and some of the Y/D wet.  The Y/D is a food that trreats thyroid issues..  They can eat that with nothing else.  I am going to try to introduce Muffin slowly to the Y/D to see if we can get him transtitioned to that food.  My vet is going to do some research to see about taking him totally off the Methimazole if he will eat the food.  Fingers and toes crossed please eveyone and prayers too.  Thanks. 

My vet suggested Hills Y/D for Sam since she was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and we are not treating it with Methimazole because she is in CRF, but I decided against it because she has become super picky about what she will eat. He mentioned the food is low in iodine. Since she eats only baby food now (meat, water and cornstarch) surely that is low in iodine.  On to a little research. The ingredients to Y/D:

Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Whole Grain Corn, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, L-Lysine, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Citrate, Lactic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Fish Oil, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Sulfate, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Tryptophan, Natural Flavor, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

and on to information about iodine-rich foods:

Food	Approximate Micrograms (mcg) per serving	Percent DV*
Seaweed, whole or sheet, 1 g	16 to 2,984	11% to 1,989%
Cod, baked, 3 ounces	99	66%
Yogurt, plain, low-fat, 1 cup	75	50%
Iodized salt, 1.5 g (approx. 1/4 teaspoon)	71	47%
Milk, reduced fat, 1 cup	56	37%
Fish sticks, 3 ounces	54	36%
Bread, white, enriched, 2 slices	45	30%
Fruit cocktail in heavy syrup, canned, 1/2 cup	42	28%
Shrimp, 3 ounces	35	23%
Ice cream, chocolate, 1/2 cup	30	20%
Macaroni, enriched, boiled, 1 cup	27	18%
Egg, 1 large	24	16%
Tuna, canned in oil, drained, 3 ounces	17	11%
Corn, cream style, canned, 1/2 cup	14	9%
Prunes, dried, 5 prunes	13	9%
Cheese, cheddar, 1 ounce	12	8%
Raisin bran cereal, 1 cup	11	7%
Lima beans, mature, boiled, 1/2 cup	8	5%
Apple juice, 1 cup	7	5%
Green peas, frozen, boiled, 1/2 cup	3	2%
Banana, 1 medium	3	2%

Selected Food Sources of Iodine

*Source:  NIH http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iodine-HealthProfessional

I think I'll stick with baby food which at least is based on meat (which is low in iodine) rather than corn and animal fat.  And, corn is mentioned in the chart above only just below tuna.

 

[carolina]

Except Simka, that those are not the ingredients for y/d wet:


Ingredients: Water, Liver, Meat by-products, Chicken, Whole Grain Corn, Rice Flour, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Calcium Carbonate, Fish Oil, Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Guar Gum, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Salt, L-Cysteine, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Carnitine, Dicalcium Phosphate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotine, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

While I am not a fan of Hills, and feed a raw diet myself, the OP is at a corner here with some complicated heath issues. I hope Muffin likes the wet formula....
To The OP: good for you in stopping metro.... Will keep my fingers crossed for Muffin to start eating better now....

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Thanks Simka.  I am glad you found something that will work for your cat.  Baby food has been suggested to me as well as raw.  I have some options if this doesn't work.  I am having to make decisions based on the fact Muffin has always had a history of complications of struvite crystals and is missing one third of one of his liver lobes.  If he can adjust to the y/d then the medicine can be cut out which will be better for his liver.  If he doesn't then, I am going back to the drawing board with my vet and try to find something else that will work for him.  Carolina, thank you for all your input and concern.  It has helped me alot to talk to you.  My vet did mention steroids today, maybe on a trial basis and then wean him off to see if that would help.  To me that is going to be a last ditch effort.  I am very open to all suggestions here.  I realize it helps to get input from others who are dealing with similar issues, although when push comes to shove, all cats are different, just like people and we just have to make a decision we can live with.  Our cat is very loved and it is hard for us to deal with these issues, but we are taking one day at the time and hoping for some good quality of life left for Muffin.  Our vet seems to think that cutting his meds and trying to get his thyroid in the normal range, not high and not low will help him feel better and maybe improve his appetite.

 

[simka]

Well, as Carolina pointed out, and my vet didn't advise, baby food is not good in the long term. I guess I just can't get past my aversion to Hills and always have to find they don't make the best food - although their special diets have helped many cats. Good luck with Muffin and Y/D. I've had cats with crystals and it can be scary choosing a good food for them, then you add other complications and it becomes a nightmare.
 

 

[barbb]

Hi, I am just posting to say that I hope the new diet works out for Muffin. I know how hard it is putting every possible food that will work for your kitty and giving them pills that they don't want, and wishing they were the way they used to be, before they got sick :-(. Also it sounds like he is not eating because he doesn't feel well, and that can be from the medicine. Cats are so sensitive and creatures of routine. 

Toby is doing ok, he is still eating. Today and yesterday he seemed not very happy. Some days he eats nonstop until he vomits- seriously he gorges. Other days he does not have as much appetite. And I never know what he is interested in eating so I usually have five types of food open at the same time- and whatever he doesn't want, I give it to the other cats. Like Jezahb, I just buy out the store, looking for premium grain free food and whatever he might be interested in eating. Yesterday he wanted only fish and shrimp and then today he wants beef and gravy. Sometimes he will turn away from a food, but then if he sees Lola eating it, he wants it too. Overall he seems to prefer fancy feast wet food, all different kinds and so I have ended up feeding our feral kitties the highest grade other food that he turns away. 

Just now, after turning down every possible fish wet food, he really wanted my bumble bee lemon pepper tuna fish snack and was crying for more. Now he is beside me looking unhappy. I don't know if he is hungry or sick or tired but I will go to the pet store for more food in a few minutes just in case. At night he comes for more food practically every hour. But although he is gaining weight, it's not a huge amount. Having said that, he is not eating crunchies hardly at all anymore (unless he begs for them at night until we cave and give him a little bit) so that probably makes a big difference. If I feed him crunchies, he does eventually vomit. So I know he still has internal lymphoma issues. 

Is there any particular texture of food that Muffin likes? Toby seems to be interested in different textures depending on what day it is. Does he show any interest in people food? I was just thinking you might be able to tempt him with mixing a particular flavor he likes i.e. people chicken or beef gravy, into the y/d.

The steroids should make him hungry; I understand why it would be a last resort. This is most likely why Toby is eating like a pig since he takes 1 pill daily. Also at the oncologist's when Toby is getting his chemo I have heard the technicians talking to everyone about the "prednisolone" weight gains of the other dog/cat patients who are taking it. Your doctor probably already knows that predniSOlone is a better med than simple prednisone, it is better tolerated by animals and fewer side effects. 

Anyhow I think of you a lot when I am going thru this with Toby bc these two kitties got sick at the same time pretty much. Toby wants to go outside so bad and I really want to let him out but with him on chemo, I don't feel I can take the chance of what he might pick up, even with me out there following him around and being with him. Thank you for posting about Muffin again. I will say a prayer that his appetite picks up on this food together with not having the metronidazole anymore. I know when your cat stops eating it is a horrible frantic feeling and even more when your cat is desperately ill, as Muffin is. :-( :-(. My prayers are with you. 

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Thanks for the good thoughts Barb and everyone. I did want to post here that yesterday when I asked the vet about a raw diet he said he is not much in favor of that, the reason being cats can get bacterial like salmonella.  Post your experiences please, those of you who are familiar with this diet for your cats.

 

[carolina]

Well, that is a very common response, really.... And it was my worry too, with Bugsy in the beginning.... Imho it comes from the lack of general knowledge in the diet.... Sure meat does have salmonella, but so does kibbles, and as we saw recently, that can be far more dangerous. A cat's digestive tract is made to digest meat and deal with a certain amount of bacteria from the meat. Their stomachs are acidic, and their intestines much shorter than of an omnivore.
Putting them on a probiotic prior to starting feeding raw will ensure a healthy gut flora, and problem free digestion....
We have kitties here who started during chemo, Lazlo, as FIV, Chumley..... And their lives improved considerably.
I was personally petrified in fear and fought tooth and nail against raw, because I thought Bugsy wouldn't handle it.... Boy, was I wrong! From day one, it turned his life around! His immunesystem has gone from weak to amazingly strong. Bugsy has gone from my lemon cat, to a healthy, normal, strong kitty! He is doing GREAT. And the fear of salmonella? Soooo not there! Not even a thought in my mind... I am much more scared if kibbles today, than of raw meat.....
Now, I take precautions, and I handle raw meat with respect.
Also, I do think some raw diets are more easily digestible than others.... For Muffin, for example, I would go without bones, just like Bugsy, and start with Rad Cat.
Anyways, my feelings, and my experience..... Imho, it is a matter of us humans being comfortable with..... Because they were born made for it :nod:

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Thanks Caroliha.  I was thinking you had warned me already that vets generally are against the raw.  But I have not ruled out the Rad.  I guess I would have to order it.  Muffin ate some of the y'd yesterday.  Today he has barely touched anything.  I tried mixiing with his wet food.  Offered him his dry and then when he wouldn't eat anything, I gave him some cooked rotisserie chicken and he ate a little of that. 

 

[simka]

It's rough, trying to find the foods they will eat, especially when they love it one minute and reject it as though poisoned the next. Sam went the other way round yesterday. She ate a  one bite deli roast turkey, cut up in to tiny pieces, then wandered off and eventually threw it up. 15 minutes later, when I was cutting up the rest of the large slice for the other cats, she sat on the kitchen table and looked eagerly over to what I was doing. I gave her a shred I'd just cut off and she gobbled it down.  I kept doing that for a few minutes, one tiny piece at a time straight onto the table. Perhaps it was the novelty but she ate as much as I'd put on her plate earlier. Frustrating, but the end result was good. I can't help but keep thinking back to earlier this year when she'd pounce of her place of Fancy Feast and pretty much inhale it.