mother and son, mother in heat

[catdancing8]

hello, i am watching (pet sitting) a mother and son (9 months old), both not fixed. the mother is in heat and they are literally fighting each other, neither is hurt. the mother is sometimes submissive and the son will bite the back of her neck, kind of like a mother would do to her newborns to carry them. sometimes the mother fights back. is this normal behavior? i have contacted the owners and said they have never seen this behavior before and was not too concerned. i have had them for about 5 weeks now. i have not been around cats that were not spayed or neutered for some time. i know the mother is rejecting her son, but i don't know why she is sometimes submissive and sometimes not. is that normal behavior to bite the back of the neck of the mate? any advice would help. thanks

 

[stella123]

hi, biting the neck of the female is a sure sign that the male cat who at 9mths is already sexually active and ready to mate with any female...even his mother...

the male needs neutering asap...

in the mean time i would suggest keeping them apart...you do not want the male cat mating with its female mother....this can cause alot of issues with the kittens such as deformaties...not good.

the mother may be submissive for two reasons....one.. is she is in heat and her natural intincts tell her to mate...two... its her kitten and doesn't want to hurt it..cats are very mothering to thier off spring...it may not be rejection so much as she is trying to stop her male kitten from mating with its mother...these are animals at the end of the day....so they do not always mate with non-family members as intincts take over!!

female cats will sometimes fight back as the mating is quite painful for the female as the male cat stimulates the release of the female eggs using his erect penis which has sharpish spikes on it....so you can imagine just how painful this can be for a female cat...its like a cactus almost...

so it takes alot of effort for the male cat to hold down his female while he inserts his penis inside her...they usually hold down the female by grabbing the skin at the back of her neck...making it hard for the female to get away.....sex is not a pleasurable experiance for the female cat at all...often they scrap with each other for a few moments after mating has finished....

if you can not put them in seperate rooms..then i suggest using a water spray whenever the male has his mother by the back of the neck..this is a sure sign he may be trying to mate with her..which you do not want to happen...

then i would suggest you speak to the cats owners about getting them both fixed asap...

DO NOT LET THEM MATE!!!!!

 

[catwoman707]

Unless you have constant watch going on, and haven't left them alone for any amt of time, she is already pregnant. Guaranteed.

Once a cat reaches sexual maturity, they no longer recognize they are related, nor would it matter.

Cats mate with family all the time, believe this!

She will only submit to him if she is ovulating, this is what the game is you see, fighting him, submitting, etc.

They both need to be fixed right away.

She doesn't need yet another litter, and he will end up getting lots of girls prego and fighting with other unfixed males to the point of serious injury, and/or contracting FIV?FELV.

Bad situation here!

 

[orientalslave]

She will only submit to him if she is ovulating,

Not true - cats are induced ovulators, they don't ovulate unless they are penetrated.  The first mating set the process off, later matings help make sure the female gets pregnant.  However they do have to be receptive, which they are when they are calling - in heat.

The behaviour is all normal.  The male holds the female by the scruff of her neck during mating.  They haven't seen the behaviour before as I suspect this is the first time the male has been mature enough - since he is 9 months old she must have called several times since he was born.

Keep them completely separate, and make sure the owners know what is doing on.  Do your best to make sure they get her spayed ASAP as in this weekend if at all possible or very early next week.  If they will be away longer than that try ot get them to OK you taking her.

And please also try to impress that it's in the females very best interest to be spayed.  Every time she calls (heat) she slightly increases her chances of breast cancer, and of getting pyometra - infection in her uterus.

Spaying will stop the risk of breast cancer contining to increase and will almost remove the risk of pyometra.

The male needs neutering ASAP as well.  He is clearly becoming sexually mature, his urine will start to smell awful, he might start spraying it round the house, and he will be sexually frustrated which will do his temper no good at all.

 

[catdancing8]

thank you very much for your helpful information. i have expressed my views about spaying/neutering. i am an advocate for decreasing pet population, there are too many homeless animals!
 

 

[catdancing8]

thank you. they are not my cats to have them fixed.

 

[Willowy]

How long will you be watching them? If it's a long-term thing (sounds like it, if you've already had them for 5 weeks!) and you'd have to take care of the kittens, then it is your right, IMO, to tell the owners that either they can come get the cats right now or you'll have them fixed. If the work and expense of babies will fall on you, they shouldn't have much say. It also sounds like they don't care about the cats very much.

If it's just a short-term thing, tell the owners that their cats have been mating, and do they want you to do anything about it? And tell them to have fun with their inbred kittens :/.

 

[catdancing8]

thank you, i was concerned with spraying when the owner first told me the cat was not neutered. she said he doesn't spray and he hasn't yet. hopefully he will continue not to. they are both confined to one room. the owner is aware of the situation and unfortunately wants their cats to remain 'in tact'. i have learned from pet sitting, 9 out of 10 times the pets' behavior is different than what the owner describes.

 

[Willowy]

He is only a teenager, and WILL start spraying, probably soon. Most boys start around 10 months, IME. Do you have plans for when that happens? Did the owners leave money for a c-section in case she has complications? I think you need to have a serious talk with them.

 

[catdancing8]

the owners are going through a rough patch, looking for a place. they do care about their cats very much. i would do things differently though with the spay/neuter. it was supposed to be only a couple of weeks. i have a contract with all my clients that protects me from any damage or anything i did not agree to. i am not watching kittens. i took them in because 1) i pet sit 2) they would be put in a shelter if i did not watch them. watching kittens though is where i would definitely draw the line. i do not pay for any expenses of my clients pets.

 

[catdancing8]

thank you, it is getting to that point now.

 

[Willowy]

If they do care about their cats, I would wonder why they allow them to have inbred kittens, not to mention risking pyometra and mammary cancer :dk:. But, yeah, make sure they understand the situation, that you won't deal with high pregnancy or birthing, and that you don't want a tomcat spraying up your house. Because I can just see this turning into a situation you really don't want to deal with. . .

 

[catwoman707]

Not to mention that after the kittens are born he will get her prego very fast once again....

And also agree, he WILL be spraying soon, now that he thinks the female is "his bitch" (sorry, haha) true though!

Not a good situation for you that's for sure.

Any chance you might talk to a rescue about this situation?

I know we help the public with very low cost (our cost) to get them fixed.

Not a shelter but a rescue.

 

[catwoman707]

Oh and Orientalslave, you are correct, oops, wrong animal, that would be dogs! 

 

[stella123]

if this is your job.or a side line...looking after cats...pet sitting...then you are within your rights to insist on these animals being spayed and neutered....maybe before you except the job....and if this is a long period of pet sitting you should suggest the cats be fixed or you will have to make other arrangments for them...they be be better off with a cat rescue centre to be honest...simply because these 'clients' are going through a rough patch they should not make thier ruff patch your ruff life....because eventually the male cat will spray...mine started spraying at 10 mths...stopped after he was neutered almost over night...but the smell of a tom cats urine is dreadful..and hard to shift..i've heard of people that had to throw away sofa's and beds...as there was no shifting this smell....did they cover your expense's for that????i doubt they would replace a sofa or a bed...they gave these cats to you to take care off at the worst time....when the female was in heat and with her sexually mature son....the odds are the females already pregnant now with deformed kittens that will most likely have to be put to sleep after birth...you can not confine both cats to the same room....thats stupid..and i am shocked you would do that!either demand the cats are fixed or take them to a shelter....why would the owners want these cats in tact???thats pathetic...there are enough un-wanted cats already...without creating more deformed ones!!if this is a job for you then you have to make a tuff decision....think with a level head...or your heart?....its your home or the cats!!!i think it would be better for you to explain to the owners that unless they agree to fixing both cats....then you can no longer house them while they are going through a ruff patch.....the owners may care about these animals...but clearly not enough!!!maybe it would be better if these cats were housed with new owners sepratley....because you can not continue housing them together and confine them to one room...this situation is only going to get worse now...do the right thing!

 

[catdancing8]

the owner is going to get the male fixed. unfortunately having a rough patch financially. I hav3e made it clear I will not take care of kittens of have the male spraying my room. So far so good. If I don't watch him, he will end up in a shelter, but I do have a line.
 

 

[catdancing8]

thanks

 

[catdancing8]

thanks!

 

[Willowy]

Well, that's good they'll have the male fixed at least! But the female is almost certainly pregnant, so I hope they have a plan for what to do with her and the babies 7 weeks from now. . .