Min Space For One Cat ??

[anni7]

I asked this a year ago but the situation is still ongoing, so I want to hear more opinions.
We took a stray last year, Jack.
We have two 7 year olds - brothers. They initially were meant to keep each other company - they did until they were 2 years. We got them at 9 weeks. Since Tabby kept attacking Snowy and then Snowy fought back and we had to take Tabby to the vet we separated them. We didn’t know about social maturation as other cats we had before were ok. I never had cats before but other people did.
So I now have one cat Snowy in the kitchen /living room - 30 sq meters or so. The other cat Tabby only has a 6 sq m room most of the time but he goes to the other bedroom and 4 sq m corridor a few times a week as well when Jack sleeps or looks out the window in the bathroom.
We plan to move into a bigger place but weren’t able to yet.
My question is how much do the cats feel ok with?
Jack has about 16-20 sq meters but Tabby often has just 6. Is 6 cruel?

 

[maggiedemi]

What kind of a room is Tabby in, is it a bedroom? No, I don't think it's too cruel, if they are in a bedroom or living room if it's big enough. What I did with mine was I would give one the run of the house while the other was in a bedroom, and then switch. That way they each got the whole house for a while. And one of the rooms had a gate on it, so they could interact through the gate. But, you eventually are going to let them back together, right? I would try a gate, it might help. I don't know if they will like living in separate rooms for their entire lives.

 

[anni7]

We don’t let them together and are not planning to - they had serious fights.
Jack didn’t really fight inside but we know he fought badly outside and since he and our cats tried to fight through the doors or when they did meet accidentally we keep all of them seperate.
The room is just a small bedroom. There is only a large bed, wardrobe and two drawer stands- it’s about 6 square meters. It has a window.
I do let him out, sometimes for a few hours to go to “Jack’s room” whenJack is in the bathroom. Jack used to live outside and he asks to go out but we don’t let him so he spends many hours a day looking out the window or sleeping on the window in the bathroom, it looks out towards the yard he used to frequent (I don’t want to let him out because he goes across the road, fights with cats and also we have crazy neighbours who tried to throw stuff at him and even tried to kill him).

 

[maggiedemi]

Please don't give up on getting them all together some day. Have you tried a gate?

 

[anni7]

No I don’t know what a gate is. I don’t give up but they would be nasty to each other and also our two brothers aren’t desexed which doesn’t help any. Jack also is a big fighter he chased all the cats out the yard of the building !

 

[anni7]

I think the space is a bit bigger than 6 square meters as I looked on google and examples of rooms of that size are smaller. It must be closer to 7 square meters but I know that it is under 7, so maybe 6.7 or so..

 

[maggiedemi]

Oh, yeah they would probably need to be neutered before putting them together, or they would fight. We built our own gate, but I think most people just stack 2 baby gates on top of each other in the bedroom doorway.

 

[anni7]

Jack is neutered and he fights (given the opportunity to). We decided to keep the two intact they were ok with sexual maturity but after 2 years old Tabby got territorial. It doesn’t have to be just hormones, our friends got married and the two desexed adult males didn’t get along and had to be separated too ( one is husband’s cat and the other the wife’s)

 

[maggiedemi]

He might be fighting with them because they are not neutered. It just seems sad that he will be separate his whole life, but I guess he will be fine as long as he has his own room.

 

[rubysmama]

Are you able to get Tabby and Snowy neutered. I think that would help a lot with their fighting. As brothers, they were probably ok for the first 2 years as they'd always known each other, but once they reached complete maturity they became territorial.

If you can, I would suggest getting them neutered, then doing a complete cat re-introduction with all 3 cats, and it's possible they might all become friends or at least not be total enemies. And then the space constraints wouldn't be such an issue.

Your friends' males cats might also benefit from a separation and slow re-introduction.

Here's an article with all the info: How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

 

[anni7]

Jack fought every cat in viscinity of our block. He even went into a cat door into a neighbour’s house two streets away from here and chased their cats in their own house and ate their food! So he was not a mild cat he is with us but a bully, but he got desexed as a kitten.

 

[anni7]

We don’t want to get them neutered they are already 7 (Jack would be around 3- I saw him as a kitten the neighbor brought home two and half to three years ago) .. I don’t know how much of it is their hormones and how much is the cat themselves they also don’t have all hormones from gonads some come from their brain.
Those two cats already died - the Fluffy from old age and the other cat from an illness. This was long ago.
All three of my cats are separated not only Tabby or Jack. They have their own time and space ie Snowy is usually in one part of the apartment and we rotate the other two.

 

[Willowy]

7 is not too old for surgery. You may be right that the behavior is already ingrained, but it's worth a try anyway. Tomcats just can't get along once they're mature; if they're neutered they'd at least have the chance to get along. They may need dentals at this age so you could get it all done at once.

Also, just because a cat fights outside doesn't mean he'd fight with the cats that share his home. We had a fighter when I was a teenager. But he got along just fine with all the other cats in our house.

Gates means baby gates---the pressure-mounted gates people use to keep toddlers from getting into the kitchen, etc. If you stack 2 of them on top of each other, that should block most of the doorway, but the cats can still see and smell each other. It's a good way to do cat introductions. . .but I don't think there's any point in trying as long as they aren't neutered.

It's fine for a cat to live in a bedroom, as long as he seems content with it. I have a bedroom cat, but she's old, a young cat may not be as happy about it.

 

[anni7]

They can’t be anywhere near each other because they stick paws and bite paws or tails

 

[anni7]

Jack didn’t fight at home true we just took Snowy off his back!! He didn’t even fight him when attacked when we let them together first time

 

[anni7]

The reason we didn’t desex is because there is a lot of evidence it hardly fixes anything. I have family and friends who had many cats and the desexed fought same way as non desexed. The other cat eg one was Himalayan he never fought only defended himself. But the other cat attacked him. Both desexed. Also, friends bred cats and they also owned many and the difference between desexed and not was not obvious: some cats (desexed males ) got intro as adults and lived happy as friends together. Some desexed too - never could live together.

 

[ArchyCat]

Neutering won't make the situation worse. Any chance that it improves the relationships is to your advantage. I am surprised that cat spraying is not a problem. Good luck.

 

[anni7]

Both Tabby and Jack spray certain areas, but Snowy doesn’t and never did. Jack is the only one desexed.

 

[tarasgirl06]

anni7 -- experts and many veterinarians, as well as most cat lovers STRONGLY favor spaying and neutering starting at 4 months of age or at 2 pounds in weight. Their age beyond that does not matter as long as they are in basic good health. Over time after neutering, their testosterone level will lessen and they will not be as inclined to fight. Also, they will probably not spray, which is a territorial marking activity most males and some females do. I would STRONGLY suggest you get them neutered right away.
A baby gate might be a good idea as well, and the suggestion on how to foster good relationships among multiple cats will undoubtedly be helpful. Since you're online you obviously have access to YouTube, where you will find many great videos by cat behaviorist Jackson Galaxy a/k/a The Cat Daddy. He also has several books out including CAT DADDY and a very successful TV series, "MY CAT FROM HELL" on Animal Planet satellite channel. He is an expert at just the kind of issues you are talking about. He is also on all the major social media platforms and does consultations. There are other cat behaviorists including Pam Johnson-Bennett whose books can also be very helpful. P
As to the space your cats are in, when cats are in small spaces, they need to be able to go to different levels, from the floor to up high, to make up for the lack of floor space. Several nice multi-level cat trees or cat activity centers would probably help your cats a lot to feel more comfortable. Cats are territorial. They need to feel as if they "own" their own space. You can also build your own cat furniture -- check here on the site for other members' ideas and builds.
All the best to you and your cats! You CAN do this.

 

[anni7]

anni7 -- experts and many veterinarians, as well as most cat lovers STRONGLY favor spaying and neutering starting at 4 months of age or at 2 pounds in weight. Their age beyond that does not matter as long as they are in basic good health. Over time after neutering, their testosterone level will lessen and they will not be as inclined to fight. Also, they will probably not spray, which is a territorial marking activity most males and some females do. I would STRONGLY suggest you get them neutered right away.
A baby gate might be a good idea as well, and the suggestion on how to foster good relationships among multiple cats will undoubtedly be helpful. Since you're online you obviously have access to YouTube, where you will find many great videos by cat behaviorist Jackson Galaxy a/k/a The Cat Daddy. He also has several books out including CAT DADDY and a very successful TV series, "MY CAT FROM HELL" on Animal Planet satellite channel. He is an expert at just the kind of issues you are talking about. He is also on all the major social media platforms and does consultations. There are other cat behaviorists including Pam Johnson-Bennett whose books can also be very helpful. P
As to the space your cats are in, when cats are in small spaces, they need to be able to go to different levels, from the floor to up high, to make up for the lack of floor space. Several nice multi-level cat trees or cat activity centers would probably help your cats a lot to feel more comfortable. Cats are territorial. They need to feel as if they "own" their own space. You can also build your own cat furniture -- check here on the site for other members' ideas and builds.
All the best to you and your cats! You CAN do this.

If you read my posts above (I assume you did not because I already answered the very same suggestions that they do spray regardless of being neutered). Cat spraying is a normal cat behaviour when they see other cats especially. We live at the moment in a multi storey building. There are several cats and they come to our level. So the place where the spraying occurs is often next to the door or the window.
I don’t think neutering will help most of their issues. I also explained in my posts how many cats that I known for years and other people I know well- the neuter didn’t always lead to them having no issues with each other. Some cats I knew not neutered lived in together - which I do agree is strange in case of males of many species of animals fight.
I don’t want to neuter my cats while they are healthy because I see no reason to.