Mickey, my 27 lbs foster and his journey back to a healthy weight

[donutte]

I will always have a great big soft spot for chunky cats because of her, I adore them! Not unhealthy overweight like poor Mickey, but sqeezeable nice to snuggle and sleep with type.

Canned diet will really help, and of course limiting dry.

How much does Krissy weigh, and approximately how many calories does she get a day?

I have to do a better job of watching them when they eat, as she actually pushed one of the other cats out of the way to eat their food! But to be fair, she hadn't finished her own yet. I don't know why but all my cats like to taste from all the bowls. They can never just stick to their own (which is why I have to take phosphorus into account, even for the "community" food). 

Maple gets a half-can of a 3oz can of food (Pro-Plan at the moment) in the morning, and on most nights about 2.2 oz (approx) of Friskies or whatever food we have picked out. Trying to get away from the Friskies merely because of the high phosphorus. Sadly the Friskies and Fancy Feast are the most affordable, so I think I'll have to buy those a bit more than the other ones I've been trying to get. 

They all get dry food also, but trying to limit the access to the one that Maple goes to. The other one has kitten chow in it and it's a level of the cat tree that she's too lazy to go up to lol.

 

[donutte]

 
If you give it a try I think you'll find it isn't as complicated as it might seem. Start by calculating about how many calories she is eating now. Then decrease it by about 10% a week until she starts losing. Give it a full week at each calorie level before you decrease it again. If you do this you'll find the highest calorie level you can feed and still have her lose weight. Otherwise you risk feeding her less than necessary.  I had to get Mickey down to 150-160 calories before he would lose consistently.

 Also, I found with Mickey that once I got him down to a calorie level that he would lose at that he would get very hungry between meals if I didn't feed him 3 times a day.  I fed him as soon as I got up, as soon as I got home from work and again when I went to bed. 

I didn't feed Mickey any dry food but I really don't think it is necessary to cut it from the diet entirely; at least not for weight loss purposes. I think the only problem with using dry would be that you have to be very careful not to feed too much. It takes a far less amount of dry food to equal the same calories as an amount of wet food. You just need to be sure you know how much dry to feed. It will probably be less than you think.

After looking at the cal / cup of dry food, omg, you are definitely right about them not needing a lot. And the one we feed them now is so high! I had no idea it was that high. It's Science Diet for seniors, the Adult version has about 200 less cal / cup. Everything else looks the same, and it's also only 0.60% phosphorus, which I like. Of course we just opened up a new bag not long ago so need to use it up for now. I'm trying to give her more wet food than dry, but that is soooo difficult with the timing and what-not. Plus we have two dogs that would happily scarf up the food for them, so have to feed when they are in bed (morning or night). She gets her dry food mid-day and overnight. With the dry though, I can never say for sure WHO is eating it. Although, since she really seems to show up the moment I put food in the dry bowl, I'm pretty sure it's mainly her. The other kitties have another bowl of dry food to go to, but sometimes they like to eat out of the one Maple does (in fact, that used to be the main bowl before we got the kittens).

 

[mschauer]

 

It's really essential that you find a way to keep Maple from eating food that isn't intended for her. I know it might not be easy but I'm sure you can see how your efforts will be in vain if you don't. With Mickey I was able to put the food for the other cats in a room and blocked the entrance to the room in such a way that Mickey couldn't get in. See the "mousehole" in port #257. 

 

[donutte]

 
It's really essential that you find a way to keep Maple from eating food that isn't intended for her. I know it might not be easy but I'm sure you can see how your efforts will be in vain if you don't. With Mickey I was able to put the food for the other cats in a room and blocked the entrance to the room in such a way that Mickey couldn't get in. See the "mousehole" in port #257. 

I only put in a quarter cup of food in there, so she's definitely not getting any that's not intended. More worried that the others are eating it though! She's very skittish and if you look at her the wrong way, she goes running off, even if she's eating. 

Going by her canned food habits (of being scared off) I could never understand why she was so big. But after seeing the calories in the dry, omg, now I know. 

 

[catwoman707]

@Donutte  Krissy used to weigh 17.4 lbs, she now weighs 14.5. Ideally she should probably weigh no more than 12.

As @mschauer  mentions, if your fat kitty can not climb where the other cats can, I would say to put their dry food there out of her reach. Krissy was a dry food addict but over time I have been able to get her over to canned meals with the mid day dry she so loves. Older cats need slow changes, I sure found that out, or they just won't eat (trying out different 'better' grain free canned), or whine all day long as Krissy did when trying to stop the dry food. So we've reached a happy medium.

Unfortunately it's impossible for me to know her caloric intake, her dry is 93 cals, Simone def eats more canned then Krissy, Krissy will sometimes eat a small amt of her 1/2 can then wander off so Simone swoops on it. 

Krissy eats treats at bedtime too, Pure Bites dehydrated turkey or Blue Buffalo turkey bites. She also gets cooked meat often, for instance I made a pork roast for carnitas the other night and gave both girls some, or baked chicken meat too. I shouldn't give her pork I know but my issue is, keeping weight ON Simone, and off of Krissy..........haha!

Plus it's not usually pork it's usually baked chicken, those rotisserie ones from the grocery store we love, so when I buy one they will get some for a couple days.

Approx 93 from dry, maybe 50 from ff canned, maybe 20 from treats, so about 163 a day plus when I give her cooked meat, maybe every other day or so, or less.

 

[donutte]

 
@Donutte  Krissy used to weigh 17.4 lbs, she now weighs 14.5. Ideally she should probably weigh no more than 12.

As @mschauer  mentions, if your fat kitty can not climb where the other cats can, I would say to put their dry food there out of her reach. Krissy was a dry food addict but over time I have been able to get her over to canned meals with the mid day dry she so loves. Older cats need slow changes, I sure found that out, or they just won't eat (trying out different 'better' grain free canned), or whine all day long as Krissy did when trying to stop the dry food. So we've reached a happy medium.

Unfortunately it's impossible for me to know her caloric intake, her dry is 93 cals, Simone def eats more canned then Krissy, Krissy will sometimes eat a small amt of her 1/2 can then wander off so Simone swoops on it. 

Krissy eats treats at bedtime too, Pure Bites dehydrated turkey or Blue Buffalo turkey bites. She also gets cooked meat often, for instance I made a pork roast for carnitas the other night and gave both girls some, or baked chicken meat too. I shouldn't give her pork I know but my issue is, keeping weight ON Simone, and off of Krissy..........haha!

Plus it's not usually pork it's usually baked chicken, those rotisserie ones from the grocery store we love, so when I buy one they will get some for a couple days.

Approx 93 from dry, maybe 50 from ff canned, maybe 20 from treats, so about 163 a day plus when I give her cooked meat, maybe every other day or so, or less.

Well, the dry food all the other cats mainly eat from is definitely out of Maple's reach. She will occasionally look up there longingly but then decide she doesn't want to bother.

The other food bowl, the one that Maple eats from, I'm measuring what I'm putting in it. However, the other kitties like to come along and eat some of that too. They don't eat much of it but they eat some.

Once I weigh her, I'll be able to better gauge how much she should be getting. If she is 25 lbs, that means about 328 calories a day that she was eating. Reducing that by 10% brings that just under 300 cals per day. I'm just starting there, although I'm wondering if maybe she doesn't weigh as much as I think? She didn't eat all her dry food that I put in the bowl (3/16 of a cup).

 

[catwoman707]

I'll bet not.

Did you see Mickey's original photos? He was huge, poor guy!

He weighed 27.

 

[donutte]

 
I'll bet not.

Did you see Mickey's original photos? He was huge, poor guy!

He weighed 27.

Oh, I know! But I seriously wonder if she looks slimmer because she's a black cat - I'm serious! I mean, they say it's slimming after all. And my scale will be here Wednesday, not Tuesday. So another day. At least her food is restricted and she's getting used to the idea that that is how it is gonna be.

 

[mschauer]

Once I weigh her, I'll be able to better gauge how much she should be getting. If she is 25 lbs, that means about 328 calories a day that she was eating. Reducing that by 10% brings that just under 300 cals per day. I'm just starting there, although I'm wondering if maybe she doesn't weigh as much as I think? She didn't eat all her dry food that I put in the bowl (3/16 of a cup).

You aren't planning on gauging how many calories she is eating based on her weight are you? You really should determine it based on the food you are giving her. It's highly doubtful that 300 calories will be anywhere near the number of calories you should feed her.

 

[donutte]

Once I weigh her, I'll be able to better gauge how much she should be getting. If she is 25 lbs, that means about 328 calories a day that she was eating. Reducing that by 10% brings that just under 300 cals per day. I'm just starting there, although I'm wondering if maybe she doesn't weigh as much as I think? She didn't eat all her dry food that I put in the bowl (3/16 of a cup).

You aren't planning on gauging how many calories she is eating based on her weight are you? You really should determine it based on the food you are giving her. It's highly doubtful that 300 calories will be anywhere near the number of calories you should feed her.

She's been free-fed, so don't really have a "base" amount that she is eating now. I'm using her weight as a gauge for guessing how much she eats now, just as a starting point. And then reducing by 10% per week until she starts losing. I forget who said that but that sounded like a good idea. I also don't want her to lose too much too soon - honestly, with all the health problems I've dealt with the last few months with other cats, that freaks me out. Borderline paranoid. Just going by what she ate today though, I'd agree with you that she doesn't need 300 cals.

 

[mschauer]

She's been free-fed, so don't really have a "base" amount that she is eating now. I'm using her weight as a gauge for guessing how much she eats now, just as a starting point. And then reducing by 10% per week until she starts losing. I forget who said that but that sounded like a good idea. I also don't want her to lose too much too soon - honestly, with all the health problems I've dealt with the last few months with other cats, that freaks me out. Borderline paranoid. Just going by what she ate today though, I'd agree with you that she doesn't need 300 cals.

If yo aren't sure how much she is currently eating, I'd start her at no more than 220 calories. That is almost certainly too much but not grossly too much.

 

[catlover100]

 
If yo aren't sure how much she is currently eating, I'd start her at no more than 220 calories. That is almost certainly too much but not grossly too much.

That would probably be plenty for her to eat to start off with. I am not really measuring calories now but ounces of canned food. From what I have read it is 1 oz per lb. Now my cat has been on a 'diet' for a year now but very slowly losing probably 4 lbs. He probably started off at 27 lbs. I think he might have lost 2 more pounds. I am going to have to get some scales but it will be hard for me to weigh him and no one around to help me.

Anyway he is now eating about 10 oz/ day plus I am adding some dry to it because the canned food is getting too expensive. He doesn't seem to be losing too fast and not begging for food a lot. I have to feed all three of my cats separately but they have gotten used to it now. Indoor cats don't nearly need as much because they are so inactive. 

 

[mschauer]

From what I have read it is 1 oz per lb.

That really isn't a very good rule of thumb. 1 oz of one canned food may be 27 calories while 1 oz of another may be 42 calories.  

Anyway he is now eating about 10 oz/ day plus I am adding some dry to it because the canned food is getting too expensive. He doesn't seem to be losing too fast and not begging for food a lot. I have to feed all three of my cats separately but they have gotten used to it now. Indoor cats don't nearly need as much because they are so inactive. 

That's a lot of food. My average sized adult cats that aren't on a diet only get about 6 oz a day of canned with no additional food dry or otherwise.

Your guy must be pretty big??? I mean his lean weight must be over 14 lbs?

 

[donutte]

If yo aren't sure how much she is currently eating, I'd start her at no more than 220 calories. That is almost certainly too much but not grossly too much.

If she eats all of her wet food, she gets about 100 cals per day. I question whether she does or not because if one of the cats looks at her funny she bolts. And I may actually feed them less in the morning since they don't seem to eat all of it. Although I'd like to keep them on at least as much canned as they are getting now.

Another 120 cals should be easy to do with the dry. Actually between 100-120 cals dry, depending on what specific food I'm feeding them. Yesterday evening we gave them food from the 13 oz can, so they got a little more than when we feed from two 5.5 oz cans.

And thank you

 

[catlover100]

 
That really isn't a very good rule of thumb. 1 oz of one canned food may be 27 calories while 1 oz of another may be 42 calories.  

That's a lot of food. My average sized adult cats that aren't on a diet only get about 6 oz a day of canned with no additional food dry or otherwise.

Your guy must be pretty big??? I mean his lean weight must be over 14 lbs?

I did look up the calories of the FF and the Friskies that I am mixing together to feed him so I need to calculate how many calories it will be. Using the larger cans of Friskies it is harder to calculate the ounces without me estimating it. Now each night I am filling up 3 empty cans of Fancy Feast Food which are 3 oz each which is not very accurate either. The best thing would be to have a scale but haven't looked into that and don't want a lot of expense. 

He is looking like he is losing weight at a faster rate now which I am glad but I don't want it to be too rapid. I don't know what 'lean weight' means but I think he must weigh about 18 lbs now. 

 

[catlover100]

 
That really isn't a very good rule of thumb. 1 oz of one canned food may be 27 calories while 1 oz of another may be 42 calories.  

That's a lot of food. My average sized adult cats that aren't on a diet only get about 6 oz a day of canned with no additional food dry or otherwise.

Your guy must be pretty big??? I mean his lean weight must be over 14 lbs?

The pet food industry is contributing to overweight pets. I read on the Fancy Feast label and it said 1 can per 3 1/2 lbs. So that would be about 3 cans or 94 cal/ can for the variety I looked up. That is 282 cal which is way too much too feed them daily. The calories of Friskies is about the same.

Why are the pet food companies doing this?

I do need to recalculate how much I feed him and find an accurate way to measure out the ounces. 3 cans is too much for him. I will let you break the news to him. LOL

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by catlover100  

The pet food industry is contributing to overweight pets. I read on the Fancy Feast label and it said 1 can per 3 1/2 lbs. So that would be about 3 cans or 94 cal/ can for the variety I looked up. That is 282 cal which is way too much too feed them daily. The calories of Friskies is about the same.

Why are the pet food companies doing this?

I do need to recalculate how much I feed him and find an accurate way to measure out the ounces. 3 cans is too much for him. I will let you break the news to him. LOL

I wouldn't blame the pet food industry. One of the AAFCO labeling requirements is :

 All pet foods labeled as complete and balanced for any or all life stages must include feeding directions that, at a minimum, state"Feed (amount of product) per (weight) of dog/cat". Feeding frequency must also be stated. Feeding directions are optional for treats, as long as they are not complete and balanced and labeled as snacks or treats.

Which is pretty much a useless requirement since how many calories an animal needs varies so much from animal to animal. That 1 can per 3 1/2 lbs on the FF can would be about 268 calories for a 10 lbs cat ( which is usually considered an average sized cat) assuming 32 calories per oz (pretty typical for FF).  I've seen values of close to 268 frequently suggested by authoritative sources as a cats typical calorie requirement so it is likely FF is using such a source for fulfilling the AAFCO requirement.

 

[donutte]

The pet food industry is contributing to overweight pets. I read on the Fancy Feast label and it said 1 can per 3 1/2 lbs. So that would be about 3 cans or 94 cal/ can for the variety I looked up. That is 282 cal which is way too much too feed them daily. The calories of Friskies is about the same.

Not sure which FF you are feeding. Most of mine are between 65-75 cals per can. I know there is a generic (and easier to remember) rule out there that I've seen - 20 cals per lb - for how many calories are needed by a cat. I don't know how much it's true or not, but that would equate to one can per 3.5 lbs in my case (if I followed that rule). 20 cals per lb is not far off from the result of the formula given before either, I think it was off by about 10 cals.

 

[mschauer]

Not sure which FF you are feeding. Most of mine are between 65-75 cals per can. I know there is a generic (and easier to remember) rule out there that I've seen - 20 cals per lb - for how many calories are needed by a cat. I don't know how much it's true or not, but that would equate to one can per 3.5 lbs in my case (if I followed that rule). 20 cals per lb is not far off from the result of the formula given before either, I think it was off by about 10 cals.

Where are you getting that 65-75? That would be 22-25 calories per oz assuming the 3 oz cans. I don't think I've ever seen a FF food that was less than 30 calories per oz. I've only looked at the pate style (Classic) though.

Any rule of thumb for how many calories a cat needs is only going to be good as a starting point. Every cat is different. Most rule of thumbs I've seen result in a value higher than what most people find is needed except possibly for an outside, intact cat. 

 

[donutte]

Where are you getting that 65-75? That would be 22-25 calories per oz assuming the 3 oz cans. I don't think I've ever seen a FF food that was less than 30 calories per oz. I've only looked at the pate style (Classic) though.

Any rule of thumb for how many calories a cat needs is only going to be good as a starting point. Every cat is different. Most rule of thumbs I've seen result in a value higher than what most people find is needed except possibly for an outside, intact cat. 

It's the grilled, not the pate. They only get that once a week. The classic is too high in phosphorus (the FF pate anyway) so that got discounted off the bat. That's my numero uno priority for the community cat food. Most of the grilled (if not all) are in the 22-25 cal/oz range.

I've studied cat foods more than you know this last week :lol3: Heck, the last couple weeks now. Borderline obsessively. Trying to find something to fit the needs of five cats with vastly different needs (because none of them know how to stay at one bowl) has been a bit challenging. So, I'm very limited in what fits everything I need. I have a spreadsheet with about ten tabs, including one for Maple (my kitty on a diet) and Sara (my CKD kitty).

Oh, and at least in my case, yes, the formula for calories needed or the 20 cals / lb rule is definitely just a starting point. I need something to start with, but I'm going with your 220 for now. I think that is a good number. Which reminds me, time to give Maple her 1.5 tablespoons of dry food.