Making my own food - cats with dietary restrictions

[envy]

So, I have two cats (Doll and Yue).

Backstory: In March of last year, I noticed Yue was getting quite thin. Then I began watching, and realized she wasn't eating. Took her to the vet, and she needed surgery for an intestinal blockage that ended up being made of feces and hair. In November, I realized Yue not eating again, so again I took her to the vet. Luckily, I caught it much sooner that time, so all it required was some laxitives and an overnight stay at the vet clinic. For both blockages, I had been feeding my girls grain-free dry food (Taste of the Wild at first, then Wysong Epigen).

After the second time, my vet told me that it seemed as though Yue had a protein allergy (though zero tests were preformed for anything that may have caused the blockages). I tried some of they hypoallergenic cat food from the vet, but neither of my cats would touch the stuff. Finally, I went to the pet health food store in town, was told by the pet nutritionist there that it seemed like a constipation issue and not a allergy issue. So, I switched over to canned food, though I kept to less common meats in case it was an allergy. They adore rabbit.

I recently switched over to raw food (Primal and Red Dog Blue Kat), and have been feeding them the rabbit in both brands. Bothof them have begun losing quite a bit of weight, so while asking about whether to start supplimenting their diet with dry food with Yue's dietary issues, I was told about "Rabbit Starvation" (basically, rabbit is too lean a meat).

Anyway, with as much as I'm paying to feed them, I think I've decided that, assuming I can get a meat grinder from my parents, I'll be making my own raw food.

Questions:
- If I keep them on a rabbit diet (which I'm hoping to. They go mad for the stuff), what's something I can use to suppliment it so that they're getting the fat that they need?
- Does anyone have any recipes for venison? My dad has a whole bunch at home (he hunts), but looking online, the only recipe I found called for a bunch of potatoes. It would also have to be boneless venison recipes as a) I don't think I could grind the bones, and b) I don't think dad has kept them anyway.
- What are some of your favourite recipes for raw food, keeping away from the more common meats such as beef, chicken, etc.

I currently live in Canada, but by the end of the year I plan on moving to the UK (with my girls), if that helps you give me any suggestions for what to feed them. =)

And since this is my first post and I love showing off my girls:

doll and yue.jpg

• envy
• Apr 4, 2013

Doll is my black cat and Yue is my orange.

EDIT: I should also mention: Doll is turning seven this summer, and Yue is turning six.

 

[ritz]

Welcome to The Cat Site!  You have really pretty/handsome cats.

For homemade cat food, see http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood.  There are other receipes, but Dr. Pierson is the best known (and a vet too). You can substitute venison/rabbit for turkey, I would think.  Where the directions say to 'trim fat', don't--or only trim some of it away. 

Ritz loves rabbit too; it is generally a lean meat and when I feed only rabbit or lean chicken breast she acts like she is starving.  So I mix in the same meal a low fat meat (like chicken breast) with a high fat meat (like venison or goose).  (My nephew is a hunter.)  But I don't know if you'll be able to get venison or goose in the UK.  

In so far as increasing fat, you could try grinding chicken fat with the rabbit.  Krill oil will increase fat a little.

I feed frankenprey; others who make their own cat food will hopefully chime in.

 

[vball91]

Hi and welcome to TCS! Your kitties are adorable.

Have you been feeding just rabbit varieties of both brands? I'm not familiar with those brands, but I am little surprised that they are both losing weight unless they had weight to lose in which case a raw diet would make them leaner. Wild rabbit tends to be very lean, but farm-raised rabbits are not. I don't know what kind of rabbit is sourced in the brands you're using but I would tend to think farm-raised which would make the fat content reasonable.

  If you want to stick with some rabbit in your home prepared menu, the question would be how you're going to source the rabbit. I don't know what's available in your area, but I would look for farm-raised rabbits.

That said, it is a good idea to feed from as many protein sources as possible. 3-5 is a suggested minimum. I also would not shy away from trying the common meats like beef and chicken. Even if they had a protein allergy to the cooked version (which does not seem very certain at all from what you describe), the raw version is different.

If you're going to continue with grinding, there are recipes available on catinfo.org and catnutrition.org. There are pre-mixed supplements like Alnutrin and TCfeline. You can also add individual supplements like the recipe calls for on catinfo.org.

I would also suggest looking into prey model raw/frankenprey for your kitties. Instead of grinding the meat which does cause some nutrient loss from oxidation, you would serve the meat/bone/organs in chunks or strips. The suggested percentages are 80/10/5/5 of muscle meat/bone/liver/other secreting organ. There's also a boneless frankenprey option if bone is not tolerated. You may or may not choose to additionally supplement with this method.

 

[ldg]

Welcome to TCS!

I find it VERY odd that your vet called that an allergy. :dk: I've heard of many things being attributed to allergies, but not blockages. Weird.

Also, FYI, it's usually not the protein itself that causes the problem - it's the way it's been processed - because many cats that "had" allergies to chicken (or whatever) don't seem to have them when the meat is fed raw. There are the few that are - there is a member here who can't feed the low-end, "store brand" supermarket chicken, but if she buys the "vegetarian fed" chicken, her cat doesn't have an problem with it.

But allergies usually appear as itchy skin, vomiting, or diarrhea.

Anyway, in addition to Dr. Pierson's "making cat food" recipe, which Ritz provided, here is a VERY similar one, but it's structured in such a way that you use any protein (or mix any proteins): http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html

And here is a TCS member who is using the CatNutrition.org recipe - and sharing things she's tried: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249264/launching-into-homemade-raw

FYI, I feed my cats homemade raw, but I don't grind the food. I have a small kitchen and 8 cats - it would be really difficult for me to make ground for 8 cats here. Just putting that out there, in case you hadn't realized you can feed raw without grinding it. It's called Prey Model Raw (or frankenprey).

Also, I don't know if you want the expense, but there's an excellent company in Canada that provides a wide variety of proteins, if you want to try stuff first. The company is Carnivora. For some, it's available locally. Others have to have it shipped. But it's just whole ground animal, and they have other novel proteins if you want to stick with those... http://www.carnivora.ca/html/featured_products/fresh_frozen_products/index.cfm

 

[ldg]

Ooops, sorry for repeating so much of what vball91 said! We were posting at the same time.

 

[ldg]

BTW, how much are you feeding them? And how much do they weigh?

My cats range in size from 7 pounds to 14 pounds (3.2kg to 6.4kg), and they range in age from 7 years to 11 years. My smaller kitties eat 3 oz a day (85g); my larger ones eat 4.5oz (128g) a day. But my cats are NOT active. It's not unusual for cats to need more like 6 ounces (170g) a day.

When feeding raw, it's usually looked at as a percentage of body weight, actually. Most cats need between 2% and 4% of their body weight fed daily.

Long question, but...are you sure they're eating enough? Because it seems more like "not enough food" is the problem. :dk:

 

[envy]

Ritz loves rabbit too; it is generally a lean meat and when I feed only rabbit or lean chicken breast she acts like she is starving.

Ugh, this is definitely one of the problems I'm having. I'll feed them and about half an hour later they'll both be clammering for more food/waking me up at 6 am to feed them (though, I usually try to hold off until eight or nine, no matter what time they wake me at).

Have you been feeding just rabbit varieties of both brands? [...] I don't know what kind of rabbit is sourced in the brands you're using but I would tend to think farm-raised which would make the fat content reasonable

I have been feeding rabbit from both brands. It looks like Primal is strictly rabbit, though the Red Dog Blue Kat has lamb liver in it. Unfortunately, the RDBK rabbit is being discontinued (which is sad, because I think they like it more). I actually went to the healthy pet food store today to ask them about some stuff regarding raw/rabbit starvation, and the rabbit Primal at least has half as much fat content as all their other meats. I think most of them (beef, salmon, pheasant) were at 10% beef, whereas the rabbit was at 5%.

I find it VERY odd that your vet called that an allergy. dontknow.gif I've heard of many things being attributed to allergies, but not blockages.

I was a little skeptical at first too, especially since they didn't run any sorts of tests. She just said that because the dry food I was feeding them was so rich in protein, that must have been what caused it. When they didn't take to the vet perscription food, I went to the health food place (where they take pet nutition courses to work there. I know pet nutrition is really an inexact science right now because it's such a new area of study but...), and they linked me to a vet's website where she talked about pretty much what Yue was going through and said it might just be that a dry diet is... well, too dry. I am kind of hesitant to just disregard what the vet told me though... Unfortunately, no matter what I try, it's pretty much going to have to be a long trial and error. There was eight months between the first and second blockages, and only five months have passed since the second, so I guess if she gets another one, it's going to be back to the drawing board, but that would be what happened no matter what course of action I took regarding her diet.

BTW, how much are you feeding them? And how much do they weigh?

Yue is 8.8 lb, and Doll is 8.4 lb. They had been pretty close to nine or ten pounds before I started on the diet. I think that's still a healthy weight given their size, but I'm worried it's getting on the low end. Especially since they've lost so much.

As is, I feed them about 7 oz a day. On the packages, it said to feed about 2% of their body weight. The guys at the health food store said I should probably try giving them an extra ounce. I do admit that once in a while I don't feed them supper (breakfast is 4 oz, supper is 3 oz), but it's not very often when I don't. It's kind of harder to get into the habbit because I used to free feed them their dry food, and I never had to worry about thawing their canned food (for the very brief time they were on the canned food), but I've certianly been getting much better at it.

... Activity wise, my cats didn't used to be too active (not lazy per se, just not super active), but now that I've switched over their diets they're far more active. They play together a lot, and when Yue doesn't feel like playing, Doll's off chasing her tail or something adorable and awesome like that.

 

[envy]

So, I went to my Healthy Petfood store today, and talked to the people there about my cats. They ended up selling me some freeze-dried tripe, warning me that there was a very good chance that my cats wouldn't eat it. Both my cats gobbled it right up. Both of them transitioned from groccery store food to grain-free dry really easily, then to canned, then to raw, all without a problem. Other than with the vets hypoallergenic food, the only other time I had issues feeding my cats was when Yue got out of her intestinal blockage surgery, and wouldn't eat Taste of the Wild again (I'm assuming because she associated it with her being sick). I'm so happy that my cats aren't picky at all, though it does make me wonder why they both so vehemently refused to eat my vet's hypoallergenic perscription food. I'm wondering if it's because I had been feeding them the grain-free dry before that, and the food the vet gave them was filled with grains...

 

[ritz]

I think your cats are smarter than your vet!  They knew grain wasn't good for cats

Primal contains around 10% bone; I can't tell how much bone the Red Dog Blue Kat has other than "0.49% calcium". 

It may be Yue has a low tolerance for bone--actually 10% is a little high for a number of cats (like Ritz).  That may be why Yue gets constipated.

 

[envy]

She actually hasn't been constipated yet since I switched her over to wet food (it's too soon to tell though). It was the dry food that got her. =) I'm hoping with the more moisture added to her diet, she'll be okay though!

 

[envy]

Asking about the prey model of raw food now: 

At my healthy pet food store (which I love), they always give me free samples of food.  Today, they gave me a chicken neck to share among my girls.  Doll loved it.  Yue chewed on it for a little bit before finally letting it go.  I even took Doll away from her so she could try nibbling delicately on it, but in the end, I don't think she liked having the chew the bone.  Does that mean that I should probably avoid doing the prey model? 

(For the final piece that Doll also devoured, she made this horrible noise that sounded like she was choking.  She only did it once, looked like she was going to vomit for a second, and then neither vomitted nor choked.  That has me a little bit concerned about the likelyhood of them choking on a bone...)

 

[vball91]

Some cats find a chicken neck too large, especially for their first bone-in meal. Most people crush the neck with a hammer first in the beginning to make it more manageable, then gradually crush it less. Obviously Doll has no problems with bone. Yue might need a little help at first with smaller pieces. The fact that both were willing to tackle bone at the the first introduction is actually a good sign for PMR I think.

 

[envy]

I had cut it in half (for sharing purposes), and then cut Yue's piece into thirds because I thought it might be too big.  Didn't consider crushing it though!  If I try it again (which I might because I've been trying to think of nice, healthy treats for my girls), I'll definitely try that out!
 

 

[goingpostal]

usually people start cats on bones that are soft and small, ribs of poultry or rabbits, quail, mice.  That's after starting on slivers of boneless.  Necks are ignored by my smaller carnivores, too much bone to be worth eating I guess but they devour just about any other part, wings, legs, etc.  It may be she doesn't know how to chew yet. 
 

 

[catmomdo]

My vet told me that cats usually don't drink enough water, so dry food tends to dehydrate them.  I have a cat with kidney disease, which requires more vigilance about hydration, and I have almost stopped dry foods (I use them as treats on top of the wet food, which I add a little water to, or I soak it in water).  You are probably right about this being the source of your kitty's constipation!

 

[envy]

My vet told me that cats usually don't drink enough water, so dry food tends to dehydrate them.  I have a cat with kidney disease, which requires more vigilance about hydration, and I have almost stopped dry foods (I use them as treats on top of the wet food, which I add a little water to, or I soak it in water).  You are probably right about this being the source of your kitty's constipation!

Yeah.  Both vets said Yue was plenty hydrated (both my cats drank a lot of water), but the first one went right to allergies.  The second vet told me that dry food wasn't awesome and will dehydrate cats even if it doesn't seem like it, put her on a IV for her night that she stayed over (the surgeryless block), but then perscribed dry, hypoallergenic food.  The more I think about it now, the more I think she just didn't want to contraindicate what my cats regular vet said (my cats regular vet being fairly young and a fairly new vet, the one who saw Yue the second time having much more experience).   I still really like the younger vet - she seems friendlier, and Yue loves her, so I think I'll keep seeing her, but...