Looking at Ragdolls today - Solid vs. Traditional?

[marc999]

Hi, I need some help.

Today I'm going to go look at a cattery that has some male and female Ragdoll retired adults.

I understand that 'pointed traditional' Ragdolls have the blue eyes.

Yet, I'm getting conflicting statements from another Ragdoll cattery that I'm in conversation with,  that 'Solid' Ragdolls aren't purebred Ragdolls.

That all Ragdolls must have blue eyes.

There's a Ragdoll I'm interested in, that has GREEN eyes.   I've been told this is a Solid Ragdoll.  Another woman told me there's no such thing.  All purebreds must have BLUE eyes.

Well, who's right - who's wrong?

For the price, I'd like to ensure I'm paying for a purebred Ragdoll.   Not that it really matters perhaps, but if it's not a purebred, then perhaps it should be a bit less $.

 

[sivyaleah]

Here's a link to a breeder I had some dealing with, and trust.  I nearly adopted one of her older cats who was put up for adoption by the owner, instead of calling the cattery for help (which was in the contract).

It has info about coloring.  According to her, eye color other than blue is a Ragdoll trait in non-pointed coats.  If you look at her breeding cats, the solids do have other than blue eyes.  One, a very distinctive copper.

http://ragdollcatnj.com/about_ragdolls.php

 

[StefanZ]

As I have understood from other knowleable forumists, it may be so as you say. There exists solid colored Ragdolls, and some are even green-ish eye colored.

If the papers from a recognized association are OK, and the breeders reputation is without flaws, you can surely consider such a one.

But if you want a ragdoll whom everyone immediatly recognize as a purebred ragdoll, the safest bet is to buy a traditional ragdoll....  

I hope other knowleable forumists will join soon, feks  @GemsGem

Good luck!

 

[GoldyCat]

Here's a link to a breeder I had some dealing with, and trust.  I nearly adopted one of her older cats who was put up for adoption by the owner, instead of calling the cattery for help (which was in the contract).

It has info about coloring.  According to her, eye color other than blue is a Ragdoll trait in non-pointed coats.  If you look at her breeding cats, the solids do have other than blue eyes.  One, a very distinctive copper.

http://ragdollcatnj.com/about_ragdolls.php

Interesting. I wonder what association she's registered with? I looked at the breed standards for CFA and TICA. Both list pointed, mitted, and bicolor as acceptable patterns, but no mention of solid color. They also both list blue eyes as the only acceptable eye color.

 

[sivyaleah]

Interesting. I wonder what association she's registered with? I looked at the breed standards for CFA and TICA. Both list pointed, mitted, and bicolor as acceptable patterns, but no mention of solid color. They also both list blue eyes as the only acceptable eye color.

Yes, I saw that also. Is it possible that for show cats, the blue eyes are a must? Because there are dozens of breeders that I can find - all registered - that have pet quality Ragdolls with other eye colors.  However, having said that, all pointed Ragdolls absolutely should have the blue eyes.  There seems to be some questions about whether or not the Mink colored Rags are in fact, pure Ragdolls or not.  Some are claiming they are actually crossed with other breeds several generations back, and should be marketed therefore, as Ragamuffins.  The one I nearly adopted had very blue eyes, but others in her program - i.e. the solid colored or bi-colored cats had copper or green eyes. 

Hope I explained that right !

It's all very confusing to me since I don't have any experience with genetics or breeding.  

EDIT: Just looked up the TICA website and the breeder I posted is registered with them.  

http://www.tica.org/public/breeds/rd/rd_briadolls.php

 

[GoldyCat]

I've been doing some more reading on Ragdolls and RagaMuffins. It appears both breeds were developed by the same person. From the descriptions the major difference I can see in the two breeds is that RagaMuffins come in all colors/patterns with any color eyes. Ragdolls are limited to blue eyes and four patterns (pointed, mitted, van, bicolor). According to the breed standard, you wouldn't be able to register/show a Ragdoll that is solid color or has eyes any color except blue.

marc999 , I would ask to see the registration papers and the pedigree of the cat you're interested in. Then do your own research with the association where the cat is registered. Definitely ask the breeder how they got a solid color cat in their Ragdoll breed since you've been told that it can't be a purebred Ragdoll. I'd like to hear what they have to say about it. It's possible that some breeders are working toward getting solid colors recognized by the associations.

 

[GemsGem]

I've being doing some research on this too

This is what I have managed to come up with.
It seems that there are two distinct lines of Ragdolls, the original 'pure line' (color points with blue eyes) who's bloodline can be fully traced back to the original Ann Baker cats.
Then the new 'color line' (Any other color or pattern) The 'color line' has been crossed with completely different breeds, to introduce these new colors and patterns.These new color lines cannot be fully traced back to the original Ann Baker cats on both parents sides. These cats were crossed with other cats and can only traced back to animals noted as “Unknown”. Occasionally the other breed - Himalayan, Birman, Persian, Exotic, Abyssinian, etc. - has been listed.

Here's some links that explain

http://www.original-ragdoll.ch/traditional_vs_original.html

http://www.original-ragdoll.fr/errors_in_the_genetics_cards.html

 

[sivyaleah]

Very interesting links Gem, thanks.

So, here's a question.  How do these breeders who aren't selling Ragdolls that can be traced back to Ann Baker's cats, manage to get into TICA, and other associations?  Evidently, the one I mentioned for instance, is listed there (not only as a breeder but also as a member).

 

[GemsGem]

Very interesting links Gem, thanks.

So, here's a question.  How do these breeders who aren't selling Ragdolls that can be traced back to Ann Baker's cats, manage to get into TICA, and other associations?  Evidently, the one I mentioned for instance, is listed there (not only as a breeder but also as a member).

Below is how they do this.

Here is a quick education on how a ragdoll mixed with another breed can get to be called a Purebred SBT Ragdoll.

The way the cat registries such as TICA (The International Cat Association) work is that a Ragdoll could be bred to a Tonkinese. Resulting babies are registered as 1st generation ragdolls and usually given letters in front of their registration number
such as "AON" or "AOT" . If the offspring of the 1st generation ragdolls are bred back to another pure Ragdoll, the resulting offspring are called 2nd generation or "BON" or "BOT".

The offspring of the 2nd generation bred to a pure Ragdoll are called 3rd generation and registered as "CON" or "COT".
Finally, if a 3rd generation Ragdoll is bred to a pure Ragdoll the offspring is registered as a purebred Ragdoll cat with the letters SBT meaning "Stud Book Traditional"

Some breed registries NOT all of them allow this. Normally for a limited period to widen the gene pool especially in new breeds just starting up. I know the GCCF in England is too strict to allow this, but some that are not so fussy like TICA allow this to happen.

I am not saying they allow this now for the Ragdoll, but probably say like10 years ago or so, when they first recognised and registered the breed. They most likely did allow this. So tracing back some of today's Ragdoll pedigrees that far you would find these "Unknown" other breeds used in the pedigrees.

 

[marc999]

Good lord, thanks guys/gals.  That's a lot of leg work/research.

I ended up settling on a different cat from a different breeder.  A seal color point (blue eyed, 'Traditional') 2 yr. old.   She's registered with TICA and is recovering from her c-section & spay.

 

[sivyaleah]

Congrats on your new fur friend!

Post photos when you can