Longtime companion cats fighting

[dmb216]

Hi all, I am a week into a pretty anxiety inducing situation and wanted to get some advice on this. For background: DM and Bucket (both girls) are littermates that are 7 years old. They were born in my backyard in 2016. We brought them in when they were around 6 months old and they've been with me ever since (they were immediately spayed after bringing them in). I've moved 3 times since getting them and they've adjusted without issue each time. They eat every meal next to each other and for their entire lives have gotten along amazingly. They cuddle often and have tended to not be thrilled if they are separated by a closed door or anything like that.

I was away for 2 nights (around 48 total hours). My roommates did not leave until later so it was less than 48 hours of being alone in the house. I fed them their normal breakfast and then left out dry food and a lot of water in numerous spots around the space. Someone stopped by the check on the house and confirmed that there was still food (the cats were hiding). This is something that has worked a number of times in the past as I've often adjusted their diet over time to include varying amounts of dry food. When I returned there was plenty of food/water remaining but I noticed one cat - Bucket - was hiding. This isn't super unusual but once I lured her out I went about unpacking. Then I happened to notice DM chase Bucket out of my bedroom - tails fluffy.

Then I was cleaning the litter and heard another fight break out.

Later I was on the bed with DM and she was cuddling and purring and generally behaving normally with me. She then spotted Bucket walking into the room and instantly became alert and nervous. I prevented her from jumping and she just started meowing in a scared way before she got distracted and went up into the cat tower.

At this point I decided to split them up for the night. I reintroduced them using a blanket over a baby gate. At first DM was nervous but once they got close through the gate they were peaceful. So I opened the gate and they were fine. They sniffed each others faces and butts, they butted heads, the licked each other faces. Being an idiot I thought things had returned to normal so I left the room. 10 minutes later I heard a horrible sound and went to find that there was a chase. As far as I can tell DM chased Bucket.

I separated them again. In each case I've done a reintroduction and they seem fine until they don't. If they are close to each other physically they will share space in a way that's actually kind of normal. They'll sit next to each other at a window. They'll even have normal moments that I assumed would blow up with the current situation: I've accidentally caused Bucket to dive bomb into DM chasing a toy. One has tried to climb a cat tower to find it occupied and neither have an issue with that. They both tried to investigate a bug and one bopped the other on the head when they were too close in the same space. They will sleep a few feet from each other. Despite all this tolerance there's still be a handful of hissing/chases/moments. Additionally, I've spent a ton of time hovering when they are together, quick to distract with a toy if I see too much defensive posturing.

After a chase yesterday I decided to try and commit to a longer separation: 48 hours. This is tough because I have roommates and my bedroom area is the "safe space" in general. So separation like this has one is locked out of a space she has considered safe for the last few years. I am rotating them often.

Both are completely normal with me. An additional note: a few days after returning I spotted a Fisher (the angry weasel, not a person catching fish) in the yard.

At this point I just have no idea if I'm doing the correct thing here. I've talked to the vet's office on the phone a few times and they've mentioned making sure there's litter boxes and food and vertical spaces to perch and all that (there are 3 boxes now - previously there were 2 and they were next to each other). They suggested the separation but in my own research I've seen that the separation is meant to give the cats time to chill out. In this case the cats aren't actively hostile - just sporadically hostile. In other words - I am trying to determine if constantly straying from normal over the last week is helping exacerbate the issues more than separation/room swapping is helping to solve it. Do they just need normalcy more than anything else? One thing I wonder is if I'm so used to years of cat harmony that I'm completely overreacting to "cats being cats" and also making things worse by hovering and managing them.

Appreciate any help/feedback, thanks!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. The changes with you being gone is likely what triggered this, but there may be an element related to the weasel too. Separation for some cats may only take a few hours, but for others it can take days. So, you might consider keeping them separate longer than you have done so far. It sounds like re-directed aggression - something bothering DM and she takes it out on Bucket. I've included an article link below about this and some things to consider about what you might need to do.

The other thing that could be happening is the one of your cats is ill, perhaps due to your absence and what went on while you were gone. Some cats sense an illness - or even high stress - in another cat and will be aggressive toward it. Stress and illness can cause scent changes. But the reverse is sometimes true, in that the aggressive cat is ill or overly stressed causing them to attack.

When they are together, it really should be under your supervision so you can act quickly to distract the aggressor before they actually attack. Toys to divert their attention is most often used, but you could do it just by picking up the cat and paying attention to it. Also pay attention as the whereabouts of this weasel when DM goes on the attack. She doesn't have to see the weasel to know/sense it is around the area.
Re-Directed Aggression In Cats: Insight And Solutions - TheCatSite

 

[dmb216]

I appreciate the response! Is there anything specific I can look for when it comes to the separation? They both seem normal on their own outside of being stressed out by the closed doors (and me being on the other side of them). And whichever is outside of my bedroom is away from their favorite spots. So I'm not really sure what to do other than pick an arbitrary point (48 hours for example) and then try the reintro.

After I reintroduce them should any incident lead to another multi day isolation? Or should they be allowed to hiss and be testy without getting completely separated for another 24-48 hours? These two have never been aggressive with each other so I have so little baseline for a dynamic with them that includes negative interactions.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Does Bucket always run (and hide)? If so, does DM follow her very far before giving up the chase? Or is Bucket standing her ground with DM? If Bucket is beginning to stand her ground, then it might be time to let them go at it for a minute and see what happens. If all they are doing is hissing and swatting, they may be able to work it out on their own. Just let them interact under your supervision. You can always pick one of them up just to stop the interaction. If all they are doing is batting and hissing (no biting, blood being drawn, or hair flying), you are probably safe to let them interact as long as you can watch.

If Bucket is still running away, and depending on what DM is doing, then the best thing you can do is intervene before DM gets a chance to touch Bucket. The key is to get to them to stop any hostile interaction before it starts. The less they 'fight' the more inclined they are to get over whatever is going on.

This won't work if there is something going on outside of your home that is causing the provocation and continues to go on.

 

[dmb216]

In the first few days after returning the chases definitely seemed more aggressive compared to more recently. In one of the more recent instances DM hissed at Bucket and then ran under the bed. For the incident that caused me to commit to the current separation DM had chased Bucket behind the couch but hadn't gone further. I haven't found any tufts of fur at all so I'm not even sure how much swatting is happening. The times when I catch this happening it has been pretty easy to pick up DM - she stops fighting the moment I pick her up.

Either way, it sounds like there isn't much I can do other than wait out the isolation period I've set and carefully reintroduce and monitor. I've been in contact with the vet and they will be calling back about making an appt.

I really appreciate your perspective.

 

[dmb216]

I wanted to add an update and some more questions here. Tuesday morning was the end of the 48 hour separation. I used a pet gate to block access initially but there were no negative reactions so I let them hang out. And in general I think things are at least better than they were 1.5 weeks ago. I've been supervising all of their hangout time and there's been some bumps in the road here and there. DM walked over to Bucket and licked her head a bit. That used to prompt an occasional swat if it went on too long but this time it got a hiss and DM ran off and looked suspiciously. There was another moment where I had fed them some treats because they were doing well and I missed one that I had tossed to Bucket. A few minutes later she was eating it and DM ran at her and hissed. I picked up DM and cordoned her off because I am so worried about retaliation causing a spiral of hate. Should I be letting those situations play out a little more?

I was very very dumb and the first night after bringing them back together we all slept in my room. I woke up to yelling and DM had run under the bed. I did a brief separation again after this and brought them back together later in the day where they resumed their normal somewhat-tolerance of each other. I have separated them at night after that. Last night there was a bit of an incident where I was trying to separate them for the evening and they both found themselves walking into my room at the same time. DM got a little spooked and once I intervened and just picked her up to bring her into my room she hissed.

The struggle is that this is not an introduction where one cat is the resident and the other is completely unfamiliar with the territory. They are both very comfortable out in the living room and both feel entitled to be out there. If I use a pet gate the one on the run-of-the-house side just wanders off.

On that note the area where I supervise their hangout is a pretty sizeable space: a kitchen and living room that is mostly combined with two outside doors on each end. So a lot of space to hang out and lots to look at. My main concern is that it's a big enough space that they aren't forced to interact the entire time. It also allows so many chances for one of them to spot movement in the distance. And if they are on edge I did not know if this was problematic.

When they are napping during the day while I work they do it in my room together within 5-6 feet of each other (not on the same surface though).

DM is extremely interested/concerned if she sees Bucket using a litter box but when this happens I can successfully distract her with toys.

There's 3 litter boxes scattered around the space they have access to when they are together. Curiously they've essentially stopped using the box in my bedroom's attached bathroom. Which was their original box from before all this started in its original location.

I've been trying to feed them on either side of the pet gate and have noticed that DM often hides after eating a bit. This didn't feel like it was happening earlier in this process but I've admittedly lost my mind a little. I struggle with anxiety in general and this whole saga has truly represented one of the larger challenges for me. So there are certain things I may have missed earlier.

And finally, I had noticed that Bucket is occasionally going into the litter and not really doing anything (she is actually using it at other times). I called the vet and spoke to them and Bucket now has an appointment for Saturday morning.

All in all I'm not completely sure how to feel about progress. They will tolerate each others presence fine but that was also somewhat true a week ago. The fights seem less serious but I don't know if that is because I am intervening. Half the time that DM actually decides to give Bucket a sniff she turns away in a huff.

Gonna include some pics of how they've been hanging out the last few mornings. Additionally, I am including a pic of something else I've noticed with Bucket's fur sometimes. Are these raised hackles or a grooming issue? I'm pretty sure I didn't really see this from her prior to this.

It feels good to have a vet appointment but I just really hope I'm doing the right things here - I'm so sad for these two.

 

[dmb216]

Also wanted to include a napping shot

 

[arr]

It does seem puzzling to me. When I was dealing with redirected and non recognition aggression, it seemed like they either couldn’t be together freely, or they finally could. Once they were over it, they were over it. So I’m thinking of two possibilities: maybe whatever triggered this whole thing is still happening or out there somewhere? The other possibility is a long shot, but did you happen to install any cat pheromone diffusers like Feliway to help the situation? During our last reintroduction, my cats were exactly like this. They were mostly fine, sleeping near each other, eating together, hanging around, but then there would be these random spats, hissing, fighting, and just an general agitation that they didn’t used to have. I was so confused and upset. Things had never gone this way during previous reintroductions with these same cats. It finally dawned on me that maybe they didn’t like the diffusers. I wrapped them up and took them out to the garage, opened all the windows and ran fans and air conditioning , and within two hours all the cats were completely normal. So it’s something to consider.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Since you seem to be able to keep a handle on the goings-on, I would stop the baby gate thing and just monitor them. It would appear that they are getting over it - even if it is in their own good time! And hold off a bit on intervention unless you think their interaction is really heading 'south'. They may be at the point of working the rest of this out on their own. I wouldn't force interactions between them, they will manage that between themselves. I don't think it is going to end up that they don't end up mostly getting back to where they were - eventually.

It almost sounds as if DM is testing the waters with Bucket, but not to the degree that she once was - yes?

This upcoming vet visit - can you take both of them and have them both at least 'touched' by the staff? You need both of them to smell the same when they get home, or you might just start the whole thing over again.

 

[iPappy]

Hi,
Have they, at any time, caused any type of injury to one another? Bites, scratches, etc.? That would be the determining factor (to me) as to how to proceed. They are adorable!

 

[dmb216]

It does seem puzzling to me. When I was dealing with redirected and non recognition aggression, it seemed like they either couldn’t be together freely, or they finally could. Once they were over it, they were over it. So I’m thinking of two possibilities: maybe whatever triggered this whole thing is still happening or out there somewhere? The other possibility is a long shot, but did you happen to install any cat pheromone diffusers like Feliway to help the situation? During our last reintroduction, my cats were exactly like this. They were mostly fine, sleeping near each other, eating together, hanging around, but then there would be these random spats, hissing, fighting, and just an general agitation that they didn’t used to have. I was so confused and upset. Things had never gone this way during previous reintroductions with these same cats. It finally dawned on me that maybe they didn’t like the diffusers. I wrapped them up and took them out to the garage, opened all the windows and ran fans and air conditioning , and within two hours all the cats were completely normal. So it’s something to consider.

That's a really interesting thought. I had added a Feliway diffuser almost immediately in this process - the day after I got back. I'll go without it for a bit and see what happens.

Since you seem to be able to keep a handle on the goings-on, I would stop the baby gate thing and just monitor them. It would appear that they are getting over it - even if it is in their own good time! And hold off a bit on intervention unless you think their interaction is really heading 'south'. They may be at the point of working the rest of this out on their own. I wouldn't force interactions between them, they will manage that between themselves. I don't think it is going to end up that they don't end up mostly getting back to where they were - eventually.

It almost sounds as if DM is testing the waters with Bucket, but not to the degree that she once was - yes?

This upcoming vet visit - can you take both of them and have them both at least 'touched' by the staff? You need both of them to smell the same when they get home, or you might just start the whole thing over again.

Yah I work from home so I am able to move with my laptop to wherever they are and keep an eye on things so I haven't really been using the pet gate except for feeding. Either I've been watching them or they are sleeping. Since Wednesday night they've only been physically separated while I sleep.

Sometimes it seems like DM is normal and Bucket is acting strange and DM is responding to that. But then other times it seems like the complete reverse.

The part of the dynamic that concerns me a little is that even though the separation has only been at night I've tended towards having Bucket sleep out there. When I spend the night at my girlfriend's place my roommate reports that Bucket is often sleeping out in the living room. So she likes sleeping out there and on the flip side DM will howl for the entire evening if she is on the other side of a door from me and also alone.

I got an interesting clue tonight: it was shortly before I was going to split them up for the evening. DM used the litter box in the living room and Bucket *immediately* took interest. I tried to distract her but she wanted to get closer and look. Not quite stalking but still concerning. DM finished quickly enough and did what she usually does: SPRINT OUT like the box is on fire and then run around. Bucket was very on edge though and they had a bit of a stand off. Bucket's tail was puffy and I just picked up DM and went ahead with the night's separation.

So I am wondering if litter box issues are kind of driving hostilities. And the times of peace are when that isn't a factor. So for a lot of their lives they shared a box and then a second box was eventually added. But because it's never been an issue with them the second box was simply next to the first one. Since then the second box went to a second location in the bedroom (one in bathroom closet, the other in regular closet) and a third box was added to the living room.

I feel the same way about the vet visit and planned on asking them that.

Hi,
Have they, at any time, caused any type of injury to one another? Bites, scratches, etc.? That would be the determining factor (to me) as to how to proceed. They are adorable!

Thank you! And as far as I can tell there haven't been any injuries. I've gently pushed and prodded to check for reactions on both, I've watched for limps, I've studied as much as I can and see no scratches on their faces or anywhere. There's been no blood, no tufts of fur. When they've fought it has sounded absolutely hellacious with screaming and I definitely see slaps but it's possible that I am just conditioned to the last 7 years of literally zero conflict. I am admittedly hearing impaired and spend a lot of my time with them not wearing my hearing aids (it's why I think DM is such a loud meower lol) so I don't hear everything from them but I can't think of the last time one has hissed at the other.

 

[dmb216]

Just a minor update from this morning: I kept them separate last night. Around 645 this morning I was up and DM was on the bed. I decided to let Bucket into the room and she jumped up into the window for a few mins and then up into the tower. DM went back to sleep and I let myself drift off for a bit too while the 3 of us gloriously napped within a few feet of each other.

Then I got up and they started wandering about the living room. They shared space at the door and watched the birds for a bit. It had just rained so there was A LOT of birds and they were both making murdery clicking noises. None of that got redirected thankfully. There was a moment when Bucket slapped DM on the head a few times. It honestly may have been a bird reaction. I did not intervene - DM stepped back for a moment but then went back to the door. Very strange.

For the first time in this whole process they ate side by side again. The thing that still has me on edge is interactions around my bedroom. If they are both already in there it's generally fine-ish but if they encounter each other at the doorway it can lead to a bit of a heightened moment. Or if one is already in there and the other walks in.

I am wondering if at this point I should consider not splitting them up at night. I'm not super concerned about violence if there is an incident (since at this point I've noticed there isn't a pursuit) but more it setting back progress.

Included pics are the aforementioned peace summit at my window this morning and a separately sleeping Bucket

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am wondering if at this point I should consider not splitting them up at night.

I think I would NOT try to keep them separate and see what happens, since you will be present to react if needed.

 

[iPappy]

I would agree that keeping them separate is probably not needed at this point. My 3 cats do slaps, random pounces and pester one another. Only once did I separate them and it was just for overnight.

 

[dmb216]

I appreciate all the input - they woke up from their naps and despite not having been fed yet are not acting openly hostile. A little less tolerant than this morning but still not awful. I know a lot of this might sound somewhat tame compared to some of the true introduction stories I've seen while browsing here. But these two arrived in my life as bonded sisters that didn't even playflight much when they were kittens. So any hostility - even stuff in the range of what others would deem normal - has been very alarming. The vet did confirm I can bring DM along for the visit.

 

[iPappy]

I appreciate all the input - they woke up from their naps and despite not having been fed yet are not acting openly hostile. A little less tolerant than this morning but still not awful. I know a lot of this might sound somewhat tame compared to some of the true introduction stories I've seen while browsing here. But these two arrived in my life as bonded sisters that didn't even playflight much when they were kittens. So any hostility - even stuff in the range of what others would deem normal - has been very alarming. The vet did confirm I can bring DM along for the visit.

Taking them both to the vet is a great idea, and will eliminate the chance of a set back by having one cat smell like the vet. I'm glad they're doing better!

 

[RainBoots]

Though this isn't an extreme situation, it sounds very upsetting. It broke our hearts when our old Siamese tried to snuggle with his brother and got hissed at. It took weeks for them to come to terms again.

You are doing an amazing job as a pet parent. I hope Buckets vet visit goes well!

 

[dmb216]

Despite the positive day on Friday there was an incident that evening. Because they were doing so well I let my guard down and lost track of Bucket. I thought she was in one spot but had gone down the hallway at one point. I later saw DM go down that hallway and thought it was fine because it meant she was ignoring Bucket. There are 2 other bedrooms at the end of the hallway. I heard some yelling and found both cats under the bed. This time I did notice a scratch on Bucket so I kept them separate again. It was just so confusing because they easily shared space all day and then happily ignored each other most of the afternoon. Makes me wonder if the trigger was territory related and it was a mistake to give them access to all the space upstairs. From now on I'll be shutting all the doors and limiting their space while they are spending time together.

The vet appointment went well. Unfortunately I was not able to corral DM into the carrier and I was running out of time and since she wasn't a patient decided it wasn't worth further traumatizing her. I had a very long conversation with the vet about the situation and described what I've included in all my various posts here. Her initial thought was committing to a long separation and full introduction but along the way decided to try medication (gabapentin). I'm not entirely comfortable with drugging my cats but some research revealed that it is pretty mild and low risk. So if it is some sort of short term option to get them less on edge while being in each others space then I will see how it goes. In general I think what I was doing was working - I think I just need to slow it down a bit and be better about limiting the space they have access to.

Otherwise I will be hearing back on the blood work this week but it seems like Bucket is generally healthy. I asked if being sick could cause her to be the target of aggression and the vet noted that she'd need to be sicker for that to happen.

The suggestion was to give them the gabapentin and reintroduce today. I did that and it went pretty well actually (I never thought I'd be capable of giving a cat a pill). After confirming that they didn't react to each other through the pet gate I let DM into the living room. She walked past Bucket (sitting on a small cat post that I had moved to give them a clear view of each other) and went to go look out a window. Bucket watched her for a bit but not with too much interest and I moved the post back to where it was. They eventually both settled near the chair I was sitting in and started to nap. Shortly after that when they were both up I did treats on either side of the gate. Then later I let them both into my room (DM was in there first) and did simultaneous treats. They are now both sleeping in my room after some initial separate window time (pictured below). DM definitely seems a little less surefooted and has elected to use the lowest spot in the tower for the first time in ... ever.

So yah, I dunno....I guess it's going well but it's been kinda hard not to feel a little discouraged after such a big incident on Friday. Even with a (possibly medically assisted) positive reintro.

 

[iPappy]

The gabapentin idea sounds like a good place to go from here. I would give it a try and see how they do and at some point, the vet can help you gently wean them off.

 

[arr]

During our reintroduction process, we put the aggressor cat on gabapentin and I think it helped to get over the hump. They prescribed 100mg twice a day and I felt like she became too out of it so I gave her 50mg twice a day and that was enough to calm her down.