Long post from a fireman, but it'd mean so much, advice (new kitten+old cat)

[sugarwookie]

I've been on here in the past off and on on behalf of my best friend, who passed last August at almost 18. I can't even begin to describe the connection and love we shared, or the unbearable pain I've suffered through daily since her passing. There was not one ounce of me that wanted another cat. Sadie was the best thing to every come into my life, and I just had no desire for several reasons, one of which was my gf's cat, that we'd kept separated from Sadie (age, several health issues, etc.). I've been content with her 8 year old living with me, and she's helped a lot by being super sweet. This story changed on 11/06.

I'm a firefighter by trade and this particular morning, I was getting ready to leave for work. It was my morning to bring breakfast, which I'd bought the night before, but for the life of me I couldn't find it. I ended up leaving to avoid being late and arrived to find I'd been moved to the drivers seat because a man called in sick. So, we SHOULD have had breakfast covered and I SHOULDN'T have been driving this day. We decided to go to the local grocery store and get what I couldn't find, and on the way back I saw something weird. It was like a wad of dryer lint blowing across the road. This "lint" was a tiny kitten... I immediately swerved to the fast lane and hit the lights to try to make a u turn and get around (scared the hell out of the guys in the truck as they had no clue). There was a city bus and several cars that blew by behind me, and I knew in my gut the kitten was probably dead (buses hug the curb so tightly). To my astonishment, when I jumped out of the engine the kitten was looking at me and meowing angrily. I quickly scooped it up after looking for any other siblings and we went back to the station.

This tiny kitten had burnt toes, so this tells me it fell out of an engine space (warmth) and rolled out on a very busy 4 lane highway. How it didn't die from all of this, and more importantly, HOW all this happened at just the right time made me a believer that this kitten was place in my path in such a way that I couldn't just say it was a coincidence. When you look at Sadie and the new kitten, Jescoe, you'll see the similarity. So, fast forward getting a 1/2 pound 3-4 week kitten to where he is now ( around the clock feeding, litter training )and we have one glaring issue to get past, and that's the actual introduction.

Jescoe is now 3-4 months old. He just tested negative on his combo, and he's a healthy 4 pounds. Callie is a 8 year old tortie that weighs just under 10. Up to now, we've allowed them to watch each other by way of a room divider that had it's lower panels replaced by Plexiglas. I figured this way we could play with them both on either side and also leave the door open so they can watch each other.

The older cat does nothing but hiss, swat the glass and growl at the little one. I'm so worried that she's going to hurt him, and that she won't accept him into out house. As you can imagine, I can't give this kitten up. I feel like he's a divine gift, or maybe even Sadie finding her way back (who knows?). I'm just asking for links, or suggestions you might have to help. I've read a lot, but sometimes you can find that missing piece on forums for amazing people like you.



Things I've done
Used blankets to carry their scents from room to room
Used feliway in the hall right where they interact
Just bought Ryal Canin Calm
Have a script for gaba that we have on hand to use if it'll help the older cat.

 

[rubysmama]

Oh, wow, what a story. And what a miracle little Jescoe survived.

As for introductions, you've probably read this already, but in case you haven't here's the TCS article on: How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite

There's also:
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide | TheCatSite
Introducing Cats To Cats | TheCatSite
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction | TheCatSite

Have they been seeing each other every since you rescued Jescoe? Or have you just started the introduction?

I can't tell in the pictures, but is the plexiglass still there? If not, can you remove it so they can touch noses/paws? Or is Jescoe small enough to squeeze through?

 

[Silver Crazy]

Wow..amazing story..cant give you much advice on the introduction and there are a lot of people here with heaps of experience and lots of other advice as given above.
Good Luck and hope things work out.

 

[danteshuman]

I would add things to try to help get her used to him:

1) put a dab of pure vanilla extract on the back of each cat’s neck,every week until things calm down a bit.

2) lock your senior cat in a crate or bathroom and carry him into her territory, then place her in his. In her case I would use a crate maybe with a towel draped over it, so she can’t see him. Give him the run of her territory half the day or every other day. The more they smell each other & get each other’s scent on them, the better!

3) since she is still aggressive towards him I would cover the plexiglass by taping up newspaper or wrapping paper. Then in a week or two, you can try taking it down (& letting them see each other.)

Cat introductions take time. Expect it to go slow...... like months slow. I do not know why but female cats tend to be more territorial.

Hissing, not liking the other cat & even the occasional bop on the head are all OK. Your goal is for them to not try to kill each other. There being BFF is not the goal (but sometimes it happens.) Fur flying, yowling & blood are all signs of a real cat fight. (Not OK and to be avoided whenever possible!)

My punk Dante used to bully his brother. The best way to break them up was to toss a penny can a foot away from them.... the loud noise made my punk let his brother go.... & they would both run away. That wasn’t a real cat fight though. Jackson Galaxy says to use a 4 foot by 4 foot piece of card board to break up aggressive cats. I have found that blocking the aggressive cat’s view stops the cat fight before it starts. So if one cat is staring down the other, use the cardboard to block their view & distract them from each other.

Staring down another cat is like a human saying “hold my beer” or “come at me bro!” Nothing good happens after that.

 

[ArtNJ]

Well, sounds like its been quite a while, you've done all the right things, and there is still hissing. Thats ok. The older cat won't actually hurt the kitten. Tons of post like yours here, you wouldn't have to read long to find a bunch. No injured kittens. Biological hard wiring not to actually hurt kittens, although sometimes its a bit more than just hissing, and the "get away from me" swats can be kind of scary looking. The real problem is that sometimes the older cats can stay fairly stressed for a relatively long time, and progress annoyingly slowly towards toleration. Especially if the kitten won't take no for an answer and jumps all over the older cat. Still, at some point, you do need to let them interact and work towards that. You can't get them all the way via some perfect process. I personally would not do an indefinite intro process of months unless it looked like there was a risk of a true cat fight (which again, never happens when one of the two is a kitten).

Basically the way I see it, your doing a good process now, and continue that as long as its leading to progress. If there is no more progress, there is no more progress, and you have to see what they can do on their own. Its like a human therapist doing desensitization therapy with a spider. They start with the spider at 10 feet from the scared human, and gradually get closer and do more intense things. If the human is still kind of tense and unhappy when the spider is 4 feet away, and that isn't changing, that doesn't mean you cant move on. Sure, you wouldn't move on if the human was shaking, or visibly sweating bullets, but a little uncomfortable? Its the same with cat intros. Sometimes they don't get perfecty comfortable with the glass barrier up, and you do need to move on eventually.

 

[danteshuman]

People have done the door crack test. Where you open the door a tiny crack & let them see each other through it. If your adult cat tries to attack through the crack then you know you need to slow the introduction process. If she just makes sounds, then you can move a step forward.

I have always done kitten introductions with smaller kittens. I did what I call “my precious” introduction. Meaning when the adult cat was around the kitten, the kitten was within arm’s reach of me, at all times. This worked for me, with the 4-7 week kittens. I kept them up on me it near me. At the same time I gave the adult cats extra TLC & treats (plus play away from the kittens..... later play with the 6-12 month old kitten.)

When you finally get them together, your older dame will appreciate a break from the troublesome kitten. All older cats want breaks from kittens. So locking the kitten in a cat room for a few hours every day will be greatly appreciated. If she just hisses from a distance then I would let them be together with supervision but seperate them whenever you leave the house or sleep. Make sure your older cat gets to sleep with you, because the bed is prime real estate (& it would hurt her feelings to be suddenly locked out of your room at night.)

 

[sugarwookie]

I would add things to try to help get her used to him:

1) put a dab of pure vanilla extract on the back of each cat’s neck,every week until things calm down a bit.

2) lock your senior cat in a crate or bathroom and carry him into her territory, then place her in his. In her case I would use a crate maybe with a towel draped over it, so she can’t see him. Give him the run of her territory half the day or every other day. The more they smell each other & get each other’s scent on them, the better!

3) since she is still aggressive towards him I would cover the plexiglass by taping up newspaper or wrapping paper. Then in a week or two, you can try taking it down (& letting them see each other.)

Cat introductions take time. Expect it to go slow...... like months slow. I do not know why but female cats tend to be more territorial.

Hissing, not liking the other cat & even the occasional bop on the head are all OK. Your goal is for them to not try to kill each other. There being BFF is not the goal (but sometimes it happens.) Fur flying, yowling & blood are all signs of a real cat fight. (Not OK and to be avoided whenever possible!)

My punk Dante used to bully his brother. The best way to break them up was to toss a penny can a foot away from them.... the loud noise made my punk let his brother go.... & they would both run away. That wasn’t a real cat fight though. Jackson Galaxy says to use a 4 foot by 4 foot piece of card board to break up aggressive cats. I have found that blocking the aggressive cat’s view stops the cat fight before it starts. So if one cat is staring down the other, use the cardboard to block their view & distract them from each other.

Staring down another cat is like a human saying “hold my beer” or “come at me bro!” Nothing good happens after that.

Thank you so much for taking the time. The cardboard is a great idea. I also get the can with some coins. I know the fight is coming, so I guess it's recognizing when things get nasty.

May I ask what the vanilla does to help?

 

[sugarwookie]

People have done the door crack test. Where you open the door a tiny crack & let them see each other through it. If your adult cat tries to attack through the crack then you know you need to slow the introduction process. If she just makes sounds, then you can move a step forward.

I have always done kitten introductions with smaller kittens. I did what I call “my precious” introduction. Meaning when the adult cat was around the kitten, the kitten was within arm’s reach of me, at all times. This worked for me, with the 4-7 week kittens. I kept them up on me it near me. At the same time I gave the adult cats extra TLC & treats (plus play away from the kittens..... later play with the 6-12 month old kitten.)

When you finally get them together, your older dame will appreciate a break from the troublesome kitten. All older cats want breaks from kittens. So locking the kitten in a cat room for a few hours every day will be greatly appreciated. If she just hisses from a distance then I would let them be together with supervision but seperate them whenever you leave the house or sleep. Make sure your older cat gets to sleep with you, because the bed is prime real estate (& it would hurt her feelings to be suddenly locked out of your room at night.)

Thank you for taking the time to share the advice. I hadn't thought about opening the door slightly. We sleep in separate bedrooms, so the gf's cat shouldn't have to worry too much about that sort of stress. Thanks again!

 

[sugarwookie]

Well, sounds like its been quite a while, you've done all the right things, and there is still hissing. Thats ok. The older cat won't actually hurt the kitten. Tons of post like yours here, you wouldn't have to read long to find a bunch. No injured kittens. Biological hard wiring not to actually hurt kittens, although sometimes its a bit more than just hissing, and the "get away from me" swats can be kind of scary looking. The real problem is that sometimes the older cats can stay fairly stressed for a relatively long time, and progress annoyingly slowly towards toleration. Especially if the kitten won't take no for an answer and jumps all over the older cat. Still, at some point, you do need to let them interact and work towards that. You can't get them all the way via some perfect process. I personally would not do an indefinite intro process of months unless it looked like there was a risk of a true cat fight (which again, never happens when one of the two is a kitten).

Basically the way I see it, your doing a good process now, and continue that as long as its leading to progress. If there is no more progress, there is no more progress, and you have to see what they can do on their own. Its like a human therapist doing desensitization therapy with a spider. They start with the spider at 10 feet from the scared human, and gradually get closer and do more intense things. If the human is still kind of tense and unhappy when the spider is 4 feet away, and that isn't changing, that doesn't mean you cant move on. Sure, you wouldn't move on if the human was shaking, or visibly sweating bullets, but a little uncomfortable? Its the same with cat intros. Sometimes they don't get perfecty comfortable with the glass barrier up, and you do need to move on eventually.

Great advice. We have taken a good approach to it, did reading and added our own ideas, but as you said, we can only do so much before nature takes it's course. Thank you!!

 

[sugarwookie]

Oh, wow, what a story. And what a miracle little Jescoe survived.

As for introductions, you've probably read this already, but in case you haven't here's the TCS article on: How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite

There's also:
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide | TheCatSite
Introducing Cats To Cats | TheCatSite
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction | TheCatSite

Have they been seeing each other every since you rescued Jescoe? Or have you just started the introduction?

I can't tell in the pictures, but is the plexiglass still there? If not, can you remove it so they can touch noses/paws? Or is Jescoe small enough to squeeze through?

We'll be going through these thoroughly, and some I hadn't seen

 

[sugarwookie]

Wow..amazing story..cant give you much advice on the introduction and there are a lot of people here with heaps of experience and lots of other advice as given above.
Good Luck and hope things work out.

 

[danteshuman]

The pure vanilla extract makes all the cats have a bit of the same smell. Cats have a communal smell for friends/family. They spread it by rubbing against each other, grooming together & sleeping on each other’s beds (humans included.) Since cats identity by smell first, sight second, it helps a lot. Cats who do not smell like your cat are automatically viewed as possible/probable threats. That is why cats get aggressive to their buddies/cats they live with in one comes home smelling like the vet or after being washed/sprayed at the groomer. It is why a lot of people take all the cats together to the groomer or the vet; even if only one cat needs to go, So every one smells the same!

Another option is to brush one cat, then with some of your cat’s fur in the brush, brush the other cat. Keep doing that a couple times every day. I didn’t suggest it becuase if your adult cat is all hissy she will probably try to attack the brush. The pure vanilla extract is easier to apply & without the fuss from your older cat.

 

[Cat McCannon]

Find the challenge lines during feeding time. How close can they cats be before they won’t eat in each other’s presence. Move the challenge line a little bit with each feeding. You want the cats to associate the other cat with good things such as food. Eliminate free feeding and put your cats on scheduled meal times. If you move the challenge line too close and one cat or the other houses or refuses to eat, back up until the cats are comfortable again, then continue. Use a bit of masking tape on the floor to mark your progress.

If there’s hissing with visual contact, use sight blockers without blocking scent.

Use site swapping.

Catify your home. Look for places where one cat can block the path of the other and find ways to eliminate that. If one cat can block the other from passing on the floor, create another path higher up.

The proper number of litter boxes is Cats + 1. In your case, that equals 3.

Play with your cats.

 

[sugarwookie]

Find the challenge lines during feeding time. How close can they cats be before they won’t eat in each other’s presence. Move the challenge line a little bit with each feeding. You want the cats to associate the other cat with good things such as food. Eliminate free feeding and put your cats on scheduled meal times. If you move the challenge line too close and one cat or the other houses or refuses to eat, back up until the cats are comfortable again, then continue. Use a bit of masking tape on the floor to mark your progress.

If there’s hissing with visual contact, use sight blockers without blocking scent.

Use site swapping.

Catify your home. Look for places where one cat can block the path of the other and find ways to eliminate that. If one cat can block the other from passing on the floor, create another path higher up.

The proper number of litter boxes is Cats + 1. In your case, that equals 3.

Play with your cats.

Thanks for the advice. They both have been free feeding so that will have to be something we try.

 

[sugarwookie]

The pure vanilla extract makes all the cats have a bit of the same smell. Cats have a communal smell for friends/family. They spread it by rubbing against each other, grooming together & sleeping on each other’s beds (humans included.) Since cats identity by smell first, sight second, it helps a lot. Cats who do not smell like your cat are automatically viewed as possible/probable threats. That is why cats get aggressive to their buddies/cats they live with in one comes home smelling like the vet or after being washed/sprayed at the groomer. It is why a lot of people take all the cats together to the groomer or the vet; even if only one cat needs to go, So every one smells the same!

Another option is to brush one cat, then with some of your cat’s fur in the brush, brush the other cat. Keep doing that a couple times every day. I didn’t suggest it becuase if your adult cat is all hissy she will probably try to attack the brush. The pure vanilla extract is easier to apply & without the fuss from your older cat.

Tanks you for the clarification! We'll give this a try!

 

[sugarwookie]

Thank you

 

[Margot Lane]

How is the little burnt paw kitten doing? Probably not so little now!

 

[sugarwookie]

He's a hellion and probably weighs around 6 pounds now. The other cat still hates him, so we have stacked baby gates up and try putting them together from time to time. He wants to play, she wants to eat his face off. He's been a tremendous help in battling the depression over losing my girl, so I'm grateful he dropped into my world. Thanks for asking!

 

[Margot Lane]

How’s the Hellion? Would love to see more pics!

 

[sugarwookie]

He's almost a year now. Super smart (sits, high fives) but not very affectionate. The two cats can be in the same room, but he constantly sneaks around her lightly tapping her tail, so it works for the most part. The bad/good news is I took a stray in, and she was pregnant. She had four kittens that are 7 weeks now. I think we have the kittens rehomed, but we're going to try and keep Gracie. Sooooo, another round of introductions are coming once she's spayed next week.

Jescoe is the last pic. He's a big boy now