Lip licking cat

[merlotandasti]

Well he ate a little bit last night on his own. But this morning he's breathing faster

That scares me so so much.

I don't have any more money to bring him to the vet. My mom just paid for the cystotomy & food. My dad thinks I need to stop bringing him (which I agree but in situations like this, I feel like we need to figure out what's wrong asap) so I don't know if asking him for money will be okay.. I only have a part time job because of school so I don't get much. I don't know what to do.

I don't think his breathing is labored. It's just usually 18 bmp & it's 25 now. If the not eating thing had to do with his lungs or heart, he would've been breathing faster sooner than this, right?

 

[merlotandasti]

Called the vet earlier & asked her what I should do about all of this. She consulted with the other doctors about it. They said that the fact that he's had 2 antibiotic shots & 2 weeks of oral antibiotics might have messed up his tummy. So we got some forti flora for him to put on his food.

I had one more food that I haven't tried to give him that he used to gulp down a few years ago. I bought some of it & he immediately went after it & stayed at the bowl for like 5 straight minutes!!!!! He hasn't done that in weeks. He mostly licked gravy but he ate at least half of the chunky part which is about 1/4 of what he should eat!! Now he has food & forti flora in him so we'll see how it all goes. I'll monitor his breathing for the rest of the day & see if it gets better.

 

[nevroth]

It's gonna be all right!

Sorry I haven't messaged sooner but I'm SO GLAD that you tried something else and he gulped it down (but hopefully not up too?!)

I wanted to mention sooner two things,

1- maybe he is just sick and tired of the same prescription food. So maybe trying something else would help (looks like it did). The problem now, is that, now that Asti knows you'll give him other food, he may avoid the prescription one completely now. Hopefully it's ok if you continue to give him the food he's enjoying. If he's eating a little of the chunky bits then try chopping the rest of the food into smaller pieces. I did this trick with Meph- she'll lap the gravy/juice but then also lap up tiny pieces of food too.

2- you said that he gained weight since Jan. Was that a healthy weight gain (meaning putting back previously lost lbs)? He is at normal weight (meaning Asti weight a few months ago) or over that? I bring it up because I've recently become very interested in the amount of calories per ounce of food. And it's different for every brand, every variety. I read about it before, but now that I'm tracking Meph's calories instead of amount of food eaten, I can tell that she's (mostly) getting sufficient calories per day even though some days she eats 3.5oz or others 5oz.

How long was the increased breathing going on for? Do you notice if it increases whenever you fuss at him? He could be mildly stressed out, but even at that, I (in my humble, mostly ignorant, just going off the internet and gut feelings way) think that 18 to 25 isn't too off. Unless it was consistent for hours. Something like 35-40 would really freak me out. 

Good luck! I really hope he recovers soon! I understand the stress you're under. Money just flies out the door when our babies get sick. Meph has insurance, but that still didn't cover everything (only about 40%) and of course all the fancy pants foods come out of pocket too. I've literally been spending more money on cat food than people food last month. Literally.

 

[foxden]

Right now, I believe that the best food for Asti is something that he eats.

Why not let him have this food for a few weeks and see if his health stabilizes?

If there is a reason you wish to change this food because of the ingredients or cost, then you can try to transition him to a different food

 

[merlotandasti]

It's gonna be all right!

Sorry I haven't messaged sooner but I'm SO GLAD that you tried something else and he gulped it down (but hopefully not up too?!)

I wanted to mention sooner two things,

1- maybe he is just sick and tired of the same prescription food. So maybe trying something else would help (looks like it did). The problem now, is that, now that Asti knows you'll give him other food, he may avoid the prescription one completely now. Hopefully it's ok if you continue to give him the food he's enjoying. If he's eating a little of the chunky bits then try chopping the rest of the food into smaller pieces. I did this trick with Meph- she'll lap the gravy/juice but then also lap up tiny pieces of food too.

2- you said that he gained weight since Jan. Was that a healthy weight gain (meaning putting back previously lost lbs)? He is at normal weight (meaning Asti weight a few months ago) or over that? I bring it up because I've recently become very interested in the amount of calories per ounce of food. And it's different for every brand, every variety. I read about it before, but now that I'm tracking Meph's calories instead of amount of food eaten, I can tell that she's (mostly) getting sufficient calories per day even though some days she eats 3.5oz or others 5oz.

How long was the increased breathing going on for? Do you notice if it increases whenever you fuss at him? He could be mildly stressed out, but even at that, I (in my humble, mostly ignorant, just going off the internet and gut feelings way) think that 18 to 25 isn't too off. Unless it was consistent for hours. Something like 35-40 would really freak me out. 

Good luck! I really hope he recovers soon! I understand the stress you're under. Money just flies out the door when our babies get sick. Meph has insurance, but that still didn't cover everything (only about 40%) and of course all the fancy pants foods come out of pocket too. I've literally been spending more money on cat food than people food last month. Literally.

Well he's actually tried 3 kinds of the perscription food: a patè, chunky, & dry. But it was all chicken so you're probably right. I also think he might associate that food with the nausea.

Since the shot yesterday, he only licks his lips after he eats (like he's cleaning his mouth).

As far as the weight gain. He gained .06 lbs. So not a bad amount. He was on a diet before & was loosing the correct amount each month but when he got the stones, we put him on a new diet to try to disolve & prevent them. So the doc wasn't concerned with having him lose weight at the time (& neither was i). She got the results back & he had calcium oxalate stones so he needs to stay on that diet. She said when he's back to normal, we'll figure out a weight management plan for him to help him lose weight again (he's 15.06 lbs lol).

The weird breathing started early this morning. But since he ate, it's back to normal!! I know when I don't eat, I get shake & dizzy & my breathing gets strange so I think that might've been it.

I know I've spent well over 1000 since December between Merlot & Asti. I'd throw away all of my money to help him. I thought about insurance but there are so many companies that I don't even know where to start.

He's currently taking a nice nap on my lap right now. I'm so glad. I hope he continues to eat & this stuff helps him.

Thanks for taking the time to write ob here anyways. I hope Meph is doing better!!! Did you ever find out what exactly was wrong?

 

[merlotandasti]

Right now, I believe that the best food for Asti is something that he eats.

Why not let him have this food for a few weeks and see if his health stabilizes?

If there is a reason you wish to change this food because of the ingredients or cost, then you can try to transition him to a different food

I agree. I'm going to let him eat this for awhile. He has to go back on the prescription food eventually though to prevent his bladder stones. I don't want to put him through surgery again!!!

 

[jmwentzel]

I HOPE I'm replying to the post on 'lip licking' as I have a kitty that does that quite a bit. But my Lilly doesn't seem to have any other issues. Her coat is totally gorgeous, etc.
With Lilly I think it's just a habit (but someone tell me if they think I'm wrong). Never thought to mention to her vet.
All my cats get annual exams & so far, I've been able to keep paying their medical insurance. Is this something I should mention?

 

[merlotandasti]

I HOPE I'm replying to the post on 'lip licking' as I have a kitty that does that quite a bit. But my Lilly doesn't seem to have any other issues. Her coat is totally gorgeous, etc.
With Lilly I think it's just a habit (but someone tell me if they think I'm wrong). Never thought to mention to her vet.
All my cats get annual exams & so far, I've been able to keep paying their medical insurance. Is this something I should mention?

It never hurts to mention it. In my case, my kitty is nauseous. & it may not look like they're nauseous but it may actually mean that they are. Even when he did it before, he was eating well & not vomiting. Now he isn't eating much & he occasionally vomits. But it could be a habit as well. The vet probably won't think much of it if there aren't any symptoms, but like I said before, it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[nevroth]

Interesting! When I don't eat and my blood sugar drops, then I also get dizzy, but I don't know/recall if my breathing changes. I also get dizzy easily when I'm dehydrated.

Don't worry about insurance now. Honestly because of Asti's recent issues they would probably be excluded which means if he gets stones again they may not cover it. It depends. Think about it this time next year.

I'm part of Team MerlotandAsti!! I'm here for you!! Thank you for asking about Meph. I don't know what's wrong exactly because I've opted not to do the endoscopy/biopsy. Cost aside ($1000-2500 out of pocket (and that's assuming the insurance will cover their $1000 portion) she seems to be improving so much. The last few days it's been like she was never sick at all. I'm going to update her thread on Sunday with the weigh in, but I'm tracking her calories and she averages about at least 140kcal/day. It's not a lot, and I think she should be getting a little more. But I'm letting her have free roam of the apartment so I hope she's nibbling at Momo's food (caught her last night doing so, haha). I have lazy cats. So maybe the 140kcal/day is suitable for her. I don't know what her ideal weight should be, but she's not skinny at 8lbs. Her sister is quite slim (in fact I will ask my friend how much she weighs!), definitely slimmer than Meph the last time I saw her.

We'll get through this together! 

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Your vet is the best source as to how soon the teeth can be done, but you're right, you don't want to do it TOO soon.   You might also mention to his vet the possibility of IBD.  If that is the case, the sooner diagnosed, the sooner you can begin getting things under control.  Some of the symptoms fit, but others don't.  But each cat is different, just like each person.

First...STOP READING THOSE STORIES!  Right now, it is just borrowing more trouble than you actually have.  It is PROBABLY not cancer.  Probably.  But if the worst should happen and it is, he will need you strong and ready to do what the vets recommend for treatment and to support him through it, and that won't happen if you have fretted yourself to flinders (what is a flinder, anyhow?) over it beforehand!  

If he is licking the gravy, this is a good sign.  He's interested, at any rate.  

Hang in there.  I'm here, as are we all.

 

[foxden]

merlotandasti
Once Asti is back on food at all, you may be able to trick him? (sorry, don't remember) by mixing the prescription food with the yummy food.

This does not supply all the benefits of the prescription food, but it will still help a little towards the goal of keeping the stones from coming back.

 

[arouetta]

I was thinking the same thing, Asti just hates the taste of the prescription food.  I have noticed significant differences in the amount of food my cats eat based on brand.  I had them on one food and a third of a cup would last 12 hours.  I'm trying a new one and when I get up at 9-10am, the food dishes are empty and Midway is crying, even though I know they were fed around 6-7am.

 

[merlotandasti]

Well he still isn't eating all of his other food. He's sleeping more & getting quieter.. it's really scary. Idk how long it can go on without it causing harm to him. He is going to the bathroom less because he isn't eating much. & it's really strange but every so often I hear a wheezing noise when he breathes out. Maybe it's my imagination. I'm not sure. But I know the vet listened to his lungs & said they sounded fine..

 

[foxden]

Maybe try adding a small amount of water to the yummy food. Mash up some of the larger chunks and see if he eats a little more next time

Just suggestions. Wish I knew something that would be more help

 

[arouetta]

I did a quick Google search and found some interesting stuff.  Apparently the prescription food is not the best option for preventing more stones.  It stops one type (based on what it's formulated for) but increases somewhat the risk of other types of stones.  The best option is to convince the cat to drink more.

Some suggestions I found were multiple water sources, making one of the water sources a fountain, trying both filtered and unfiltered water and even leaving out chicken broth for the cat to drink.  Many sites said that if you have dry food, put water in it and let it soak in prior to feeding the cat, just like the old-fashioned technique for convincing kittens to stop nursing and eat dry food.

 

[nevroth]

Excellent suggestions @arouetta  !!!

When you say Asti's going to the bathroom less, do you mean just less poo? Or he is urinating less too? That could be a little worrisome.

I tried a DIY water found (a waterfall aquarium filter in a big bowl) but my cats wouldn't go near it, even after a week! Maybe they desire something more fancy and legit, lol. I also leave out bowls and cups of water of different sizes/heights. I honestly haven't seen Meph drink once but Momo loves to visit EACH ONE after I do their daily water change. I also add a little extra water to Meph's food and syringe her about 25ml/ daily with her meds/pumpkin. 

What did your vet say about Asti's hydration? It's good? Maybe a little pedialyte, not just water, can help boost his appetite. Or syringing a little tuna/food broth to stimulate his appetite too. Whenever I put food out for Meph now, I literally waft it under or towards her nose then set it close by.

Really hoping you two have a good night!! TGIF!! 

 

[merlotandasti]

Well he actually has a water fountain. He's never been a big drinker so that's why he's on wet food now. He just hasn't drank a lot today or yesterday. Maybe because of the shot??? He pooped yesterday but not today. Maybe he will now that he has some food in him. I got him some cat grass as well & he really like that! But he's having trouble eating it????? Would an infection show up on his blood work if it's in his mouth??? He did have 2 teeth missing.

 

[merlotandasti]

& what do you guys think of CatSure??? I used to give it to Merlot when he was sick. Do you think all of this stuff mixed together would do more harm than good?

 

[arouetta]

A tooth or gum infection will show up on bloodwork.  Basically the body pumps out white blood cells in response to an infection and they circulate in the blood until they get to the problem area.  A blood test that measures white blood cells will show an elevation, no matter where the infection is localized.

The medicine is probably a big part in the appetite/thirst equation.  Another huge part is the taste of the food.  If you don't like something, you're going to eat as little as possible.

Cats have evolved to not drink water.  That's why it's important to trick them into drinking.  The solution though is not subcutaneous fluids or a syringe, the solution is to make water plentiful and as attractive as possible.

You stated that the vet didn't hear a single problem with the heart and lungs.  Cats also pant after exertion, and it takes a surprising little amount of exertion.  Cats have evolved for short bursts of energy.  They don't chase after the mouse for an hour before outrunning it and finally catching it; they sneak, sneak, sneak, burst of energy pounce, instant neck break.  Cats will pant decently heavily if they have a sustained release of energy lasting as little as 10-15 minutes.  They are just not built for endurance.  Chances are when you see the slight elevation in breathing Asti had just moved around a fair amount and was resting from that.

You need to take another deep breath, in through the nose, out through the mouth.  Mamanyt1953 is right - you're scaring yourself by reading the worst case scenario stuff.  That's why doctors absolutely hate it when people Google their symptoms.  The one time I did Google my symptoms trying to figure out what I had all sorts of scary stuff popped up.  So step away from Google.

The teeth are worrisome, but not an omg, drop everything and run to the vet type of emergency.  More of a coordinate with the vet as to when the best time to take Asti in, both for his physical and emotional health.  One is sooner, one is farther out, the vet that has seen his mouth will be able to find the balance between the two.

Now for the very hard one - for your mental health and for Asti's mental health, stop treating him like a patient.  Stop looking at the medical parts and see the whole cat.  Asti probably is stressed from all the evaluations you're doing and stressed from all the vet visits and the best cure for all that is to just treat him like a cat.  Pet him on demand, feed in such a way that it seems like it's on demand, ignore him when he wants to be ignored.  If he stays stressed, he will likely stop eating and drinking, he will likely start hiding, he will likely become more aggressive.  And living with continuous stress will also lower his immune system, increase the amount of stress hormones in his blood, and decrease his ability to sleep.  All of those will decrease his level of health and open the door to acute and chronic illnesses.

I know it's hard.  To stop seeing the medical model and to say "I'm just going to let go and enjoy life and enjoy my family member as okay and ordinary" is very, very hard, but also very, very necessary.

PM to follow.

 

[merlotandasti]

You're right. I just know I'll regret it if something happens & I'll feel like I didn't try hard enough. I'm trying to step back but it's difficult to