Likely Ibs, Unsure Of What To Do

[daftcat75]

How long on the new food should it take before he’s having more solid poop?
I’m willing to give meat stock or canned pumpkin a try, possibly. If it won’t hurt, and could possibly help, I might look into it. I’m not sure if that would be at the same time as switching his food, or if I’d give it a try if I’m not seeing results after switching

If you read the well-cited article I posted above, you should do meat stock before or concurrently with new food trials. You have to heal and seal his gut or you’ll potentially create new allergies with the new food’s partially digested proteins leaking out of the gut. Some people and many vets prefer steroids for this. But steroids come with risks. I have been managing Krista’s IBD without steroids for over a year now. I used a bunch of supplements from Vitality Science to heal and seal her gut. It wasn’t always pretty, there was a lot of hit-or-miss, and it certainly was not easy. I still believe in Vitality Science and would recommend their products and especially their customer support. But if I had to do it again, I would have started with the meat stock.

The other thing that really helped Krista was a raw diet. But she hasn’t liked a commercial raw since Rad Cat went out business and she snubs my homemade. Except the stock.

 

[denice]

I don't buy the whole leaky gut thing either. This was the rage several years ago but has since died down for the most part except with people like Lisa Pierson. It was never accepted by conventional vet medicine because it cannot stand up to scientific testing. No I do not agree with Lisa Pierson on a lot of things. I had a cat that lived with IBD for 14 years, starting when he was only 18 months old. The last 8 were on a steroid and those 8 years were completely symptom free.

 

[MissClouseau]

IBS or IBD? I will leave these here.

Irritable Bowel Syndrome in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

Inflammatory Bowel Disease in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

They are very similar in some symptoms but from what I understand IBD is said to be connected to another health issue while IBS is more about things like dietary intolerances/stress. Although longterm IBS might lead to IBD.

 

[MissClouseau]

Btw I just noticed there has been an IBD discussion but AmyTheKittyMommy wrote the vet suspects of IBS, not IBD?

 

[LTS3]

I’m going to start looking for a novel protein food that’s grain free. The ones that you sent look like a great place to start, and I’ll have to see if Petco carries them or if I should order online

Petco may have some of the brands listed. Rawz and Koha are found at independent pet stores and a few places online. Check the "where to buy" finder on the brand web sites. FYI Rawz can be pricey. A 5.5 oz can costs $2.99 where I live

I personally feed my IBD cat a raw diet. I buy a commercial brand of raw cat food. Some people make their own raw or home cooked food for their IBD cats, either from a recipe or by using the easier way of using a pre-mix with meat. Making the food yourself allows you to control the ingredients. There's a forum here on TCS with more info on raw and home cooked diets.

Stick with one novel protein for 13 weeks or so to see if it helps. Although when I found out my cat couldn't eat chicken, his mushy poop improved almost immediately after I stopped giving him chicken and Pill Pockets. If you have pills to give, I recommend a non-chicken pill dough if compounding isn't an option. I use this one.

For treats, freeze dried meat treats like PureBtes are great. My cat loves Northwest Naturals.

There isn't one way to manage IBD or IBS. What works for one cat may not work for another. You just have to try different things, with the vet's guidance of course, to see what helps your cat. Run anything interesting you find online on IBD / IBS treatment / supplements / etc past the vet before trying.

There's a cat IBD / IBS group on FB if you're interested in getting additional help: IBDKitties

 

[rubysmama]

Thank you all for your input! And don’t worry at all about being off topic in the thread, I really don’t mind at all. I’m just glad you’re helping each other find treats for your kitties!

Hopefully some of our off topic posts will help you too.

About the treats, I went out and bought some Purebites, and Ruby was less than impressed. I put a few in her dish, which she sniffed, then ignored and ate her wet food. She did eventually eat them, but I don't think she quite thinks of them as treats. The ones I gave her were turkey. I also bought shrimp, which I'll try in a few days, after I see how the turkey ones digest.

rubysmama Jasper is the flame point, or the “little white fuzzball”. Percy is the seal point, or the “slightly more toasted catloaf”.

They're both beautiful.

Although when I found out my cat couldn't eat chicken, his mushy poop improved almost immediately after I stopped giving him chicken and Pill Pockets.

Same with Ruby. I started the new food one day, and I'm sure the next time she pooped it was normal.

 

[AmyTheKittyMommy]

I’ve switched Jasper to the Turkey flavor Blue Buffalo Limited Ingredients wet food. I really hope it’ll help!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Keep us posted! Every single thing you learn on this journey will help someone else down the line!

 

[rubysmama]

Yes, please let us know if it helps.

About the Purebites treats, Ruby is eating the turkey ones, but only when there's nothing else in her dish, so I don't think she considers them treats. So far, though, no litter box issues.

 

[AmyTheKittyMommy]

Jasper has been eating the new food, but his appetite hasn’t been the best. A lot of times I have to sit with him and keep redirecting him to the food to get him to finish. He eats most of it, which is good, but I wish he’d eat more.
He’s also been peeing and pooping outside the litter box on occasion, mostly in the bathtub. He just had some runny, bloody poop, and I’m concerned. I can attach a photo if needed, but for now I won’t.

 

[denice]

Blood in the stool can mean a lot of things but one of them is IBD. Is it bright red or black. Bright red can also mean constipation. I know that doesn't seem right but it is possible. The runny part is going around the impaction. If this is IBD/IBS it can take a while to sort out what is best for your kitty, there simply is no one size fits all way of dealing with this.

 

[AmyTheKittyMommy]

It’s bright red. I know that unfortunately it’ll take a while to figure out what works for Jasper, it’s just hard to see him having a hard time and not really know what to do. I don’t know if I should try another food or leave him on what he’s trying right now.

 

[daftcat75]

The Blue Buffalo Limited Ingredients is anything but limited in its ingredients. This is why I really dislike the "Limited Ingredients" label. It doesn't mean anything because there's no definition or regulation around its use. How can this food claim to be limited ingredients when it contains carrots, peas, potatoes, cranberries, blueberries, pumpkins, guar gum, cassia gum, and carrageenan? That last one I would avoid as religiously as chicken ingredients for your IBS/IBD kitty. It is a suspected (known??) GI irritant. All those other ingredients are neither necessary in cat food and they themselves could be feeding the wrong gut bacteria and causing the gut distress you are seeing.

I like Rawz and it's about the only food that doesn't upset Krista's gut or butt. You can order Rawz online if you can't find it locally. And you can email the company for samples before you place an order online for a food you don't know if your cat will like or do well with.

When you go back to the pet food store, look for something that is as close to meat, moisture, organs, and supplements as you can find. There is no nutritional requirement for gums, thickeners, fruits, vegetables, grains, or starches in a cat's diet. These can be considered potential irritants. Limit as many of them as you can since Blue Buffalo won't be doing it for you.

 

[daftcat75]

Have you tried the meat stock?

Also, some of these products really helped Krista get through the worst of it.
Gastrointestinal-stomach-intestines Natural remedies for cats-Vitality Science

Luxolite helped when she had runny stools. Feline Comfort Plus helped with the mucusy and black stools. Feline Comfort Plus was doing most of the heavy lifting. And Pet Flora is my favorite probiotic. If she ate something she shouldn't have and had a soft or runny poop, one or two doses of Pet Flora fixes her right up again. All of their products have a money back guarantee and they have excellent customer service that will return emails usually within 24 hours. Except for their CBD oil, I don't believe anything they sell will interfere with anything the vet recommends or prescribes.

Ah here we go. A product selection guide based on symptoms
Cat Product Recommendations | Vitality Science

If you email them, they can also suggest which products to start with.

 

[daftcat75]

Here's a much better food. But I don't know that it will be any easier to find locally than Rawz. Chewy must have some kind of return policy, though.

https://www.chewy.com/my-little-lion-96-turkey-recipe-grain/dp/185114

It still has a couple of gums. But as gums go, these aren't the worst. Guar gum agrees with Krista and I don't know if we have experience with cassia. It has none of the unnecessary fruits, veggies, starches, or grains though. I might even try this with Krista to see if I can get another food in her rotation.

 

[AmyTheKittyMommy]

He’s having even more diarrhea on the Blue Buffalo, so I’m going to try something else. I emailed Rawz to see if they’re willing to let me trial the food, and I contacted vitality science as well. I’m a little worried about trying to give Jasper the medication, though. He hated the liquid medication the vet prescribed and would fight me when I tried to give it to him. I don’t think he’d take kindly to taking a pill, either. What do you guys recommend for getting picky cats to take their medicines?

 

[daftcat75]

He’s having even more diarrhea on the Blue Buffalo, so I’m going to try something else. I emailed Rawz to see if they’re willing to let me trial the food, and I contacted vitality science as well. I’m a little worried about trying to give Jasper the medication, though. He hated the liquid medication the vet prescribed and would fight me when I tried to give it to him. I don’t think he’d take kindly to taking a pill, either. What do you guys recommend for getting picky cats to take their medicines?

Most of the Vitality Science supplements will be formulated into a liquid or a powder that you can mix with his food. Although with Krista and her pancreatitis, getting her to eat was a struggle enough. For her, I made up a medicine tray. I had a tiny plastic tupperware lid that had just the right top to make a small plate about 2" x 2". At the time, Nutri-Cal was crack to her. I could sometimes hide her powders inside a bit of NutriCal and that was all she needed. But most times, I made a tight slurry with NutriCal (nutritional gel) and the supplements and pushed that to the far edge of the tray. Ahead of that I put a slice or two of tuna meat from PureBites tuna in water. Ahead of that, a puddle of the tuna water. So the tuna water and the tuna brought her to the plate and by the time she hit the gel, she wasn't paying any mind to whatever was mixed into it. You could substitute whatever treats work with your cat. The big idea is that I wanted to make the medicine portion as small as possible that she would still eat so that I didn't have to "poison" her food with it. "Eat your medicine and then you get your meat."

For medicines the vet prescribes, you can check if they can be compounded to other forms and flavors. You can search Google for "online compounding pharmacy for pets" if you don't have a compounding pharmacy locally. Your vet writes the prescription which you take to the site. They have some way of verifying it possibly taking a picture of it or giving them the vet's phone number or something. Then you can have your prescription filled as a liquid, a transdermal, a topical, a different flavor, etc. Whatever they say they can do for that drug. I like transdermals but Krista is even picky about that. For her pain medicine (buprenorphine) when she needs one, I give that as a transdermal. I still have to distract her with a treat for her to sit still long enough for me to "bupe" her ear. For her mirtazapine (appetite stimulant), that is such a small pill to begin with that gets quartered with a pill cutter. That is about the only size pill I'm able to pill her with. There is a transdermal version available, but I'm told the dose is higher than what she's getting now. There isn't a transdermal for everything and some things, like antibiotics, are better left in pills or liquids to ensure adequate absorption of the full dose.

 

[LTS3]

He’s having even more diarrhea on the Blue Buffalo, so I’m going to try something else. I emailed Rawz to see if they’re willing to let me trial the food, and I contacted vitality science as well. I’m a little worried about trying to give Jasper the medication, though. He hated the liquid medication the vet prescribed and would fight me when I tried to give it to him. I don’t think he’d take kindly to taking a pill, either. What do you guys recommend for getting picky cats to take their medicines?

Supplements may work great for some cats but not so much for others. Ask the vet before using any supplement and definitely stop and tell the vet if the supplement makes the IBD symptoms worse. Bone broth is a good nutritional supplement but it only complements the treatment protocol the vet has in mind for your cat, not a replacement for proper vet care and definitely not a cure or remedy.

Pill Pockets and other pill doughs work great. Pill Pockets contain chicken, even the fish one, so if your cat is sensitive to chicken find something else. I use a bacon flavored pill dough. There are other pilling techniques:

Pilling Cats: Must-know Tips For Hiding Pills
The Best Pill-taking Secret I Know...
Pilling Cats and Dogs Safely
How We Give Our Pill Hating Cat A Pill
Getting Cat To Take Pills... Post Tips Here.

Compounding is an option for many prescription medicines.

 

[MissClouseau]

If it's been already discussed I didn't see it... did you try or do you currently give Jasper probiotics? As it's been said finding a food that works might take some time but personally I think it's better to temporarily get rid of some symptoms to give the body as much comfort as possible.

I say temporarily because if a food isn't working for him but probiotics end diarrhea, that's only ending one symptom and the food might continue to cause damage inside. So maybe giving probiotics only some days (assuming they would stop diarrhea) and the other days checking how she responds to his food when there is no probiotics might be beneficial.

I don't have experience with any other probiotics for cats but I give mine FortiFlora from Purina. It has a simple formula compare to the other probiotics I have seen that contain a lot more live bacteria. It's also said by the vets it supports the immune system with its other ingredients too, it has some vitamins as well.

 

[rubysmama]

AmyTheKittyMommy : Just wondering how your Jasper is doing these days?