Legal Problem

[ralphjolly]

Hello, I recently moved out of a property and the landlord has maliciously decided to sue me for having to replace the floorboards due to them being "ruined by cat spray and urine". I don't want to go into the story at all, suffice it so say that I will soon be in front of a judge and will be able to say under oath that my cats do not spray or urinate on carpets.
As any cat owner realizes, it is not something that would pass unnoticed -years back I had a cat that sprayed but my present bunch are all neutered.

Can anyone give me advice or point me to any authoratitive texts that I might quote in court to show how unlikely such an occurance is in any case?
I've read that 95% of neutered cats don't spray, and spraying anyway is vertical, so is more likely to cause "damage" to a wall.
Maybe there is some test I can have at the vets to prove that my cats can't spray and don't have any behavioural problems that might cause them to pee indoors on a carpet.

This legal action was the "reward" I got for demanding my deposit back. It is just a way for the landlord to pay for his lawyer. I don't think there is any point in going into it any further.

Any ideas and suggestions would be gratefully received. I am a responsible tenant and a cat lover, but a novice in the field of law and unable to afford a lawyer myself. So any books I can reference in court, any other ways to prove my cats don't urinate indoors or spray???

 

[howtoholdacat]

The burden of proof is on your landlord. He'll have to prove that your cats did the damage. If he has photos or a quote/estimate from a professional service that says the damage was done by cats you're probably in trouble. You may be able to contact your local district attorney's office for advice specific to your area as the laws vary from state to state. A good legal secretary is probably the best person to talk to as he or she will have the know how and more time than an attorney. That' the best advice I've got. I hope it's helpful and I hope someone else comes along with some better suggestions for you. Good luck!

 

[cazlee]

Really need more information to give a better answer.

How long did you live there? In some states, unless the damage is really egregious, paint and carpet/refinishing the floors/other cosmetic crap like chipped tiles is the landlord's sole responsibility after x years. Where I live, it's 3 years. I'd consider pet damage in a somewhat of a grey area tho, and the verbiage is usually vague in the statutes.

Was the carpet/floor replaced prior to move in, and do you have a move in-out inspection form?

What does the damage look like? Pet spray/stains are pretty hard to mistake.

What actually /caused/ the damage? Just because it's not a pet stain doesn't mean you should contest it on verbiage alone.

What does your lease say about pets? Did you pay a pet deposit? Did your lease stipulate a deposit would be required? Did your landlord find out about them only at move-out? I'd be pretty pissed if I was renting out a place and pets weren't allowed, and I found out my tenant had multiple pets.

Would your vet write a letter of health? I'm under the impression that spraying is usually a sign of a health problem in neutered cats, but I may be misinformed. He/she would also be your best source of truly authoritative information on spraying.

Do you have any referral letters from previous landlords? Spraying is a hard habit to break and is pretty uncommon, so something from them saying that you were a good tenant yadda yadda would be in your benefit.

howtoholdacat is right that the burden of proof is going to be on your landlord, but it isn't a bad idea to take something to refute him in any case. Take it as a lesson learned and in the future, document everything. Good luck.

eta: Have you actually been served? And has he refunded your deposit yet? How long ago did you move out? He may be in violation of the statutes himself if he continues to hold your deposit without cause, which would piss off the judge if the landlord doesn't have a leg to stand on. Usually your local HUD office can help in this kind of situation, also.

 

[mommysugar]

Hello, I recently moved out of a property and the landlord has maliciously decided to sue me for having to replace the floorboards due to them being "ruined by cat spray and urine". I don't want to go into the story at all, suffice it so say that I will soon be in front of a judge and will be able to say under oath that my cats do not spray or urinate on carpets.


I would bring proof of your cats being spayed/neutered and then ask your vet to help you out and write a letter about cats who are spayed/neutered don't spray (or whatever)and then maybe bring a friend that has been to your place or a roommate that has observed the cats and can say that they have never seen the cats urinating and spraying inappropriately or smelled your place when they entered it or saw staining either you know what I mean.

I would then make sure that the judge asks to smell (kinda silly but)the damage or see the piece of wood and carpeting because who is to say that the damage wasnt from prior water damage before you moved in( and plus when you move in there isnt a check off sheet about underlying floor boards underneath a carpet how could you even check they were okay before you moved in anyway? besides if you are looking at pictures how can you tell water damage from pee damage its all water, if that made sense. Good Luck lets us know how it turned out

 

[ralphjolly]

Hello again. As you may have noticed I am new to the forum and I am very pleasantly surprised by the replies. Thank you very much for your responses.
Obviously I need to give a bit more information.

The carpets were in a bad state when I moved in -the landlord was going to update them and I suggested that he could do that after I moved out if he would give me a $100 off the rent. How that smart idea came back to bite me!
There were no new stains or smells to the flooring -it was evident that a big dog had lived in the house beforehand. I think that the landlord needed the floorboards replacing because they were old, like everything else in the house, and he wanted to put a hardwood floor down.

I will follow the suggestion of talking to a vet about a letter of health and getting a reccomendation from a former landlord.
I worry that a contractor might sign a letter to say the damage was caused by a cat -but how could they prove that was the case? Unless it is documented with scientific evidence it's just hearsay isn't it?

The house was inspected by the realty agent and he told the landlord to give me back the deposit in full. I asked for the money back many times, followed the legal procedure and then filed a complaint. This landlord knows he is in trouble and that is why he has hired an attorney and countersued so that he doesn't end up out of pocket.



Here's one further problem -the district that I moved to has a regulation that only 3 cats can live in a house. My contract specifies that I have 4 cats and is signed by the realty agent and landlord. That they were "native" and complicit in my unknowingly breaking a local ordinance -I'm not sure if this helps me at all.

I really appreciate all the replies. The legal process will take at least a few months but I will keep you up to date.

 

[howtoholdacat]

Originally Posted by RalphJolly

The house was inspected by the realty agent and he told the landlord to give me back the deposit in full.

Get a notarized letter from that real estate agent saying what he found and take it to court with you. Be sure it's notarized!

 

[lawguy]

The burden of proof is on your landlord. He'll have to prove that your cats did the damage.

I'm not an attorney (still working on that), but I was under the impression that "burden of proof" is not quite the same in civil litigation as it is in criminal law. This is not a criminal case. So, while you're right in that at least initially the plaintiff has the burden of proof (loosely defined), the standard in civil litigation is "the preponderance of the evidence" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt" like in criminal. All the plaintiff needs to do is make a case that convinces a jury 51% or more that RalphJolly (or rather his/her cats) is responsible for the damage done and owes the plaintiff for repair. On the other hand, I'm going to guess that this is going through small claims court, in that instance, there is no jury, just a magistrate. The plaintiff's burden includes "proving" (again used loosely) both liability AND damages, meaning they must present evidence that satisfies the preponderance of the evidence standard that RalphJolly's cats both caused the damage AND must present evidence that satisfies the same standard that he/she is entitled to damages. Without satisfying both of these, judgement will not be entered for the plaintiff. If the evidence is equal for both the plaintiff and the defendant, the defendant prevails. Now, if RalphJolly wants a jury trial, he/she can request one, but usually the rule is that it must be requested within 10 days of being served notice of the claim. Keep in mind that while this might be worthwhile, it will also take the case out of small claims court and put it in "real deal" court, in which case both of you would be wise to retain counsel. Lastly, I want to mention that as far as burden of proof, it sounds like RalphJolly is trying to make a prima facie case that his/her cats couldn't have caused the damage, or that the probability that his/her cats caused the damage is so remote that the court should not even entertain the notion and should consider it obvious and the plaintiff's claim absurd. In this case, I have bad news. The burden of proof (again, loosely used) shifts to the defendant when the defendant intends to make a prima facie case.

You may be able to contact your local district attorney's office for advice specific to your area as the laws vary from state to state.

Again, this isn't criminal law, and unless RalphJolly wants to request that some sort of criminal charge be filed against the landlord, the district attorney's office isn't going to be of much help. To be honest, even if RalphJolly did want to do that, he/she would actually have to initially go through the police.

No, instead, what RalphJolly really could use would be getting in contact with a local legal aid group. Usually a good place to start is by calling the best law school in your immediate area. Refer to US News and World Report's Law School rankings to figure out which school in your area is considered "better". Often times 2nd or 3rd year law students will help out and help you research your case, but occasionally, there are actual attorneys who sometimes take cases pro-bono (especially if they're in a large firm that requires a certain number of pro-bono hours per year).

A good legal secretary is probably the best person to talk to as he or she will have the know how and more time than an attorney.

Do legal secretaries have access to Westlaw or LexisNexis? I honestly don't know, but I feel that even the best legal secretary is not going to be as much help as the local legal aid groups. Maybe I'm wrong. That's just my guess.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney. I don't play one on tv either. While I will be an attorney in 3 years, for the moment, I'm not. Nothing I have said is meant to be construed as legal advice. Don't trust anything you read on the 'net.

 

[rahma]

Legal secretaries (and paralegals and other non lawyer peeps who work in law offices like myself) CANNOT give legal advice, so we wouldn't be the right people to ask.

I'm guessing this will be in small claims court, and will probably just be in front of a judge. Do see if there are any free legal aid clinics offered in your area. Catholic charities often does this, as do law schools. These kinds of disputes are common (ie landlord/tenant, not specifically cat spraying), so hopefully there will be a group in your area that deals with it.

http://www.lawhelp.org/


Just a thought - can't you tell urine stains using black lights? That could tell the difference between spraying and water damage.

 

[lawguy]

Legal secretaries (and paralegals and other non lawyer peeps who work in law offices like myself) CANNOT give legal advice, so we wouldn't be the right people to ask.

I didn't want to just flat out say that out of fear that it might offend a paralegal or legal secretary on the forum, so I hinted at it instead.

I appreciate you adding that.

While there are without a doubt, some very sharp legal secretaries and paralegals out there, ultimately for them to give legal advice would put them at risk of being charged with unlicensed practice of law, or better known as practicing law without a license. This is either a misdemeanor or felony offense depending on what state you live in, and would ruin their career and put a dent in their life.

Disclaimer: Again. I'm not an attorney. I'm not authorized to give legal advice, and therefore nothing I say is meant to be legal advice.

 

[addiebee]

Why don't you contact Legal Aid or one of those Renters rights organizations. I don't know where you live, but there must be something not too far away. I wouldn't go this alone. You do have rights as a tenant.

 

[krazy kat2]

Most states have a clearly defined Tenant's Bill of Rights. Try googling one for your state. There may be some useful information in that. Good Luck with your case.

 

[dusty's mom]

Originally Posted by cazlee

Really need more information to give a better answer.

How long did you live there? In some states, unless the damage is really egregious, paint and carpet/refinishing the floors/other cosmetic crap like chipped tiles is the landlord's sole responsibility after x years. Where I live, it's 3 years. I'd consider pet damage in a somewhat of a grey area tho, and the verbiage is usually vague in the statutes.

Was the carpet/floor replaced prior to move in, and do you have a move in-out inspection form?

What does the damage look like? Pet spray/stains are pretty hard to mistake.

What actually /caused/ the damage? Just because it's not a pet stain doesn't mean you should contest it on verbiage alone.

What does your lease say about pets? Did you pay a pet deposit? Did your lease stipulate a deposit would be required? Did your landlord find out about them only at move-out? I'd be pretty pissed if I was renting out a place and pets weren't allowed, and I found out my tenant had multiple pets.

Would your vet write a letter of health? I'm under the impression that spraying is usually a sign of a health problem in neutered cats, but I may be misinformed. He/she would also be your best source of truly authoritative information on spraying.

Do you have any referral letters from previous landlords? Spraying is a hard habit to break and is pretty uncommon, so something from them saying that you were a good tenant yadda yadda would be in your benefit.

howtoholdacat is right that the burden of proof is going to be on your landlord, but it isn't a bad idea to take something to refute him in any case. Take it as a lesson learned and in the future, document everything. Good luck.

eta: Have you actually been served? And has he refunded your deposit yet? How long ago did you move out? He may be in violation of the statutes himself if he continues to hold your deposit without cause, which would piss off the judge if the landlord doesn't have a leg to stand on. Usually your local HUD office can help in this kind of situation, also.

Excellent advice!!!

How long did you live there? I believe in CA that paint and carpet is good for 7 years max in a rental.

 

[ruby35]

Originally Posted by RalphJolly

As any cat owner realizes, it is not something that would pass unnoticed -years back I had a cat that sprayed but my present bunch are all neutered.

I've read that 95% of neutered cats don't spray."

You would be surprised. My Micky was neutered at 6 months old. We moved to a new condo when he was just over a year old. I never noticed anything until one day I saw what looked like a little puddle by the front door. I cleaned it up and didn't think twice. But eventually I realized it kept happening. One day when I was home sick from work, I saw my cat walk up to the door, look at it, back up his butt to it and he started shaking his butt really weird. I said,What are u doing?v and I heard the spray hitting the door!

Up to that point, I had no inkling that he ever would have been spraying. But the repeated puddles near the door and then actually seeing him do it confirmed it! I also though neutered cats don't spray. Apparently they can and they do, sometimes! I bought plastic to put down, I used that static mat that shocks them when they step on it, I got the carpet runner with the spikey side up, I tried everything and he still did it all the time I but never in front of me again so I could never catch him in the act. When we moved to my new townhome, he started peeing on the door that goes out to the garage. I think he's showing me he is mad that I leave him because in both homes, those were my primary doors where I'd walk in and out of the house.

Anyway, my point is just that it could have been going on and you just didn't know it. I'm not trying to take your landlord's side, but I'm just sayin, it could happen. My cat fooled me for who knows how long until I figured it out!

 

[icklemiss21]

I have never been fooled by the smell of cat spray, it stinks!

 

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by cazlee

What does your lease say about pets? Did you pay a pet deposit? Did your lease stipulate a deposit would be required? Did your landlord find out about them only at move-out? I'd be pretty pissed if I was renting out a place and pets weren't allowed, and I found out my tenant had multiple pets.

My landlord went No Indoor Pets after I was here. I went to pay the pet deposit after getting the rescue kittens and found there no longer was one.

It's kind of working in his favor, he hasn't been out a penny in repair costs in four years, we can't call him! I recently paid to have the kitchen rewired, and will be putting a new floor and wall in the bathroom in a few weeks.

The place was pretty run down when we moved in so it's a safe bet that one day when he drives by, sees a cat in every window and evicts us it will be in better shape than it was.

 

[ralphjolly]

Hello Again,
I have a few questions
It appears that I unknowingly broke a local ordinance by having 4 cats when the limit was 3. The 4 cats are mentioned in the contract which is signed by the realty agent and the landlord.
Is this a major problem in the case for me? Is it lessened at all by the fact the other parties signed the contract?

Secondly -I have an email from the realtor that he found the property to be in "satisfactory condition" and she did repay the deposit as he told her to. Do I need to get a notorized letter from the realtor to establish this fact, or possibly subpeona him -or do I have sufficient evidence?

Finally, I understand that the evidence of proof stands at 51%. If I can testify that my cats didn't spray or pee on the carpet, have another family member do the same and get a letter from the vet to say that my animals are healthy and have no behavioural problems -given that the chances of a neutered cat spraying is less than 5% -isn't that enough?
Logic tells me it is but I know not to mistake logic with the legal process?


Again, I appreciate all of the replies. I don't qualify for legal aid but will be contacting the local law schools very soon as suggested.

 

[bunnelina]

Originally Posted by RalphJolly

Hello Again,
I have a few questions
It appears that I unknowingly broke a local ordinance by having 4 cats when the limit was 3. The 4 cats are mentioned in the contract which is signed by the realty agent and the landlord.
Is this a major problem in the case for me? Is it lessened at all by the fact the other parties signed the contract?

I wish I were qualified to give you advice, but I can only suggest is that you find out when that ordinance became law. If it's more recent than your lease, you should be protected, assuming current pets were "grandfathered" when it went into effect.

(Otherwise, what did the town do? Have police go from house to house, tearing cats from their weeping owners' arms, like the Holy Innocents? I hope there's a splendid no-kill shelter in your town, funded by those who wanted that law.)

Anyway, the NUMBER of cats has no bearing on his specific complaint, right? He and the realtor knew you had four cats. You all believed it was legal, and you were so wise to spell it out in the contract.

If I were you, I would insist that the landlord produce the offending wood pieces and carpet in court, and provide lab results, i.e., prove it's YOUR cats' DNA. It is a reasonable request in 2010, I believe. If you are certain that your cats are innocent, you will not have to pay his court costs. And maybe the cost, time, and trouble involved would make him change his tune.

I wish you tremendous luck with your case.