Kittens Questions

[cprcheetah]

I have 2 kittens who aren't orphans per say as they have a mom however she has 6 kittens total and these two were getting pushed out of the way and mom only has 2 nipples that are producing.  They are about 2-3 weeks old and I have had them since Wednesday of last week.  The mom was left behind in a neighborhood with them when they were 1 week old when her owner moved, a kind neighbor brought them into the vet clinic I work at.  They at first were on a syringe as the girl who had them for a few days before that (I was having some emotional issues with my own cat so was under too much stress to take them) was doing a syringe.  But they were getting dehydrated that way and requiring sub q fluids.   She doesn't have as much experience raising bottle babies as I do.  I moved them to a bottle and I put them with their mom during the day but supplement feed them (they don't eat as much) and take them home at night and wake up every 2-3 hours to feed.  They have been doing great, gaining weight every day, but still smaller than the other kittens, the boy I have is catching up to the other kittens, the little girl/runt is still about 1/2 their size.  I had them over the weekend, they were with mom for 1/2 a day on saturday and then I put them with mom yesterday during the day.  Last night the little girl will hardly eat from the bottle.  She will take a few sucks and then stop eating.  They both have really bloated bellies, I'm thinking worms maybe?  But I don't know if she is wanting mom and so she's not eating from the bottle or if there is something wrong with her.  My dad is a semi-retired vet so I am having him check them once he is available late this morning, but was just wondering if putting them with mom is confusing her or what?  She has been doing fine otherwise.  She does seem a little more wobbly than the other kittens, I'm wondering if she's got something neurological or cerebral hypoplasia or something.   But any suggestions as to why she would stop eating so well when she was doing fine?  She did gain a little weight today.  She was 6.4oz yesterday and is 6.5 &5/8 today. She went from 5 & 5/8 to 6.4 from Sunday to Monday.  So she didn't gain much since yesterday.  Definitely gonna have her checked out as soon as I can.   He was 8oz yesterday and is 9oz today.   They both wont' go poop when I stimulate however they are going on their own on the blanket.  

 

[handsome kitty]

I think time with mom is a good thing.  If she is still nursing a little from mom, she may not take the bottle and will need to be syringe fed.  If she has worms I would think all the kittens have them.  It looks like she is gaining a little more then the minimum required to thrive.  I also assume you know all this.

Maybe @catwoman707   will have some suggestions.

 

[cprcheetah]

 
I think time with mom is a good thing.  If she is still nursing a little from mom, she may not take the bottle and will need to be syringe fed.  If she has worms I would think all the kittens have them.  It looks like she is gaining a little more then the minimum required to thrive.  I also assume you know all this.

Maybe @catwoman707   will have some suggestions.

Thank you.  The boy I have (Monkey) is bloated too, I haven't really checked the other kittens though so not sure if they are or not.  I do know mom was an outside cat.  I didn't think about the not taking to the nipple due to nursing on mom.  I will try the syringing.  I've never had kittens that had a mom before lol, in the over 20+ I have raised over the years they've always been orphans.  Well I've fostered moms with kittens but they didn't have issues.  

 

[StefanZ]

So they are eliminating, this way or another?  Good, one possible problem less.

Exactly what kmr are you using?

For bloated / gas filled tummies you can try with " if an orphan is much bloated, gas-filled, bloated, have colic, simethicone (google on it) may help.  1-2 drop in the bottle."

Its the same as for human babies.  The brand name may wary - I saw Wikipedia has a nice collection of brandnames.

And yes, that little girl need more supplementing - try with syringe.  Possibly also another kmr - depends.  

Do you have possibility to get raw goat milk?  Sometimes its THE difference.

 

[cprcheetah]

 
So they are eliminating, this way or another?  Good, one possible problem less.

Exactly what kmr are you using?

For bloated / gas filled tummies you can try with " if an orphan is much bloated, gas-filled, bloated, have colic, simethicone (google on it) may help.  1-2 drop in the bottle."

Its the same as for human babies.  The brand name may wary - I saw Wikipedia has a nice collection of brandnames.

And yes, that little girl need more supplementing - try with syringe.  Possibly also another kmr - depends.  

Do you have possibility to get raw goat milk?  Sometimes its THE difference.

They are on powdered KMR diluted 1:1.  She won't take to a syringe.  My dad/vet checked her out and said she seems to be gaining at a normal rate, she may just need fed more frequent smaller meals due to her being so tiny.  I will look into the gas drops, he suggested that as well.

 

[talkingpeanut]

They are on powdered KMR diluted 1:1.  She won't take to a syringe.  My dad/vet checked her out and said she seems to be gaining at a normal rate, she may just need fed more frequent smaller meals due to her being so tiny.  I will look into the gas drops, he suggested that as well.

You may need to force her to use the syringe. It's one drop at a time into her cheek. Kittens who have mom resist being supplemented. She'll just have to deal with you making her eat until she's strong enough to keep up with her siblings.

 

[catwoman707]

Looks like you have been given great advice now!

Simethicone is good for gas/bloated tummies. As I'm sure you know from experience, tummies should be big and rounded, firmer after eating of course but softer before.

Yes, the bottle resisting is def from her having mom and supplementing, which is why it usually will be a syringe used, they hate the bottle if they have mom to remind them of how it's supposed to feel

Are you diluting the KMR less because they need the nutritional value? Normal dilution is 2 to 1. 1 to 1 can and will cause tummy upset. (this may even be the cause of the tummy bloat)

I also want to mention something else.

I have been through this MANY times, but right about 2 1/2 weeks old, and up to 3 weeks old, a kitten will suddenly not want to eat, when they had been doing fine all along.

Unknowingly, some caretakers won't force the feedings on them, and they end up going downhill and die.

I can't explain why this happens, and surely contributes plenty to the "fading kitten syndrome" stats.

The fact is, all it takes is making certain that these kittens consume the same amt of milk they had been until this change, and it will pass, usually within 1-2 days, and resume their normal amts again.

I think there is something in their brain development that makes this occur, perhaps it is not natural to eat that way, I don't know, but is not uncommon at all!

All of my fosters are now very aware to watch for this, and many have experienced it since. I teach this in my neonatal care class too, it's that common to have happen.

So bottom line is, whatever it takes, make sure the same amt of milk is consumed regardless of their fighting it, and it will pass soon.

They all have worms and will need deworming at 6 weeks with a follow up 2 weeks later.

Good luck!

 

[cprcheetah]

Yikes!  I meant 1 part powder to 2 parts water  Sorry pregnancy brain (6 months along) lol

 

[StefanZ]

 
They are on powdered KMR diluted 1:1.  She won't take to a syringe.  My dad/vet checked her out and said she seems to be gaining at a normal rate, she may just need fed more frequent smaller meals due to her being so tiny.  I will look into the gas drops, he suggested that as well.

Yes, more frequently - if necessary smaller portions each time - is often very useful, esp with the weak ones, or otherwise in in crisis.

Its really not the question if its good, its really the question if the caretaker manages - even a dedicated caretaker is a human, and must sleep at least sometimes.  

Good you dilute 1:2 - that would be my remark too...

IF you can get raw goat milk, this may be a good alternative.  But powdered KMR by PetAg is excellent, and normally its more than good enough.

 

[cprcheetah]

Update on the little girl, she is doing better, eating more and more at each feeding (went to every 1 & 1/2 hours to 2 hours) and both have gone poop a couple times now.  I put about a drop of olive oil in their formula and it seems to be working for them.  I am picking up gas drops today so hopefully that will help as well.   They are on powdered KMR right now.

 

[talkingpeanut]

That's great!

 

[cprcheetah]

New dilemma:

Sweets aka Birdie, female kitten raging diarrhea, inflamed back end, she goes when I don't stimulate it is just pouring out of her.  We started her on a touch of Metronidazole yesterday, but she is still having it today.  Also peeing without stimulation so she is just raw.  I try to check on them frequently, but her poor backend is so sore from diarrhea it looks like she has testicles (which she doesn't).  I am putting ointment on it and checking her as often as I can to keep her dry but any suggestions?  She is eating better and is growing very slowly.  

Monkey, male kitten,  He is growing leaps and bounds, still smaller than his siblings with the mom but he is getting bigger, I have a really hard time getting him to poop and his poops are very hard and he screams bloody murder when he's pooping.  Any suggestions?

 

[Sarthur2]

I'd suggest a little more oil in Monkey's bottle for now. You can put some diaper rash ointment on Sweet's bottom, but she needs to see a vet ASAP. That kind of diarrhea is very dangerous for a tiny kitten. She likely has an intestinal infection, and needs clavamox immediately. In the meantime, mix her formula with clear pedialyte rather than water. She needs the electrolytes. I'm a bit concerned for her. Can you get her to a vet in the morning?

 

[handsome kitty]

Monkey - can you feed him a few drops of water or some KMR w/ a drop or two of olive oil?  He sounds dehydrated.

Sweets/Birdie - one of the side effects of Metronidazole is diarrhea.  PetMD recommends giving it with food.  Can you syringe some unflavored pedialyte (found in the baby food aisle) into the kitten to replace the liquids lost.  If they ointment on her back end isn't working, gently rub some olive or veggie oil on it.  Is the ointment safe for mom to ingest when she cleans the kitten?

 

[cprcheetah]

 
Monkey - can you feed him a few drops of water or some KMR w/ a drop or two of olive oil?  He sounds dehydrated.

Sweets/Birdie - one of the side effects of Metronidazole is diarrhea.  PetMD recommends giving it with food.  Can you syringe some unflavored pedialyte (found in the baby food aisle) into the kitten to replace the liquids lost.  If they ointment on her back end isn't working, gently rub some olive or veggie oil on it.  Is the ointment safe for mom to ingest when she cleans the kitte

He is not dehydrated, he is checked by Vet Techs & Veterinarian on an almost daily basis (I work for a vet as a receptionist and my dad is a semi retired vet right up the street).  The ointment does seem to be helping.  Right now they are not with the mom as I am supplement feeding them as they were not thriving with the mom (she only has 2 nipples functioning) and the other 4 kittens wouldn't let them eat.  And I didn't want the other kittens to get the diarrhea if possible.  I am giving her some veterinary electrolyte solution via syringe as well.  She is still active and playful (well she's 3 weeks old so just starting to play).   We just started the metro yesterday after her having diarrhea the day before.  I am going to do separate bottles and add a few drops of the olive oil in his bottle and add the electrolytes to her bottle.  Thank you for the suggestions.  I was putting it in one bottle but when she got the diarrhea I quit adding the olive oil.

I'd suggest a little more oil in Monkey's bottle for now. You can put some diaper rash ointment on Sweet's bottom, but she needs to see a vet ASAP. That kind of diarrhea is very dangerous for a tiny kitten. She likely has an intestinal infection, and needs clavamox immediately. In the meantime, mix her formula with clear pedialyte rather than water. She needs the electrolytes. I'm a bit concerned for her. Can you get her to a vet in the morning?

Thank you...I work for a vet, so she has been checked several times a day by our technicians and wasn't dehydrated as of this afternoon, I do the pinch test and it bounces right back, but I have been giving her some electrolytes via syringe.  Forgot to mention that.  But I think I will pick up some pedialyte or use the fluids I have in her bottle for more.  She is still really active and playful.  Just the diarrhea.

 

[Sarthur2]

She may need an antibiotic to clear up any infection that may be causing the diarrhea. You may want to ask about it at your vet's office. It's great that you work there! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[catwoman707]

Does the vet you work for happen to use marquis paste/diluted is called ponazuril?

This is my go-to always, it's amazing and fast, safe for little babes too!

Coccidia/giardia, and other less common parasite respond beautifully.

A&D ointment is what I use and recommend. Won't hurt mom either if she is with them.

 

[handsome kitty]

 
New dilemma:

Sweets aka Birdie, female kitten raging diarrhea, inflamed back end, she goes when I don't stimulate it is just pouring out of her.  We started her on a touch of Metronidazole yesterday, but she is still having it today.  Also peeing without stimulation so she is just raw.  I try to check on them frequently, but her poor backend is so sore from diarrhea it looks like she has testicles (which she doesn't).  I am putting ointment on it and checking her as often as I can to keep her dry but any suggestions?  She is eating better and is growing very slowly.  

Monkey, male kitten,  He is growing leaps and bounds, still smaller than his siblings with the mom but he is getting bigger, I have a really hard time getting him to poop and his poops are very hard and he screams bloody murder when he's pooping.  Any suggestions?

@sarthur2

@catwoman707

The kitten is on Metronidazole

 

[talkingpeanut]

For the constipated kitten, have you tried putting a few drops of olive oils in his bottles? You can also use a small sliver of a glycerin suppository.

 

[catwoman707]

Metronidazole is rather slow acting, and giving it randomly, well it is only good for some specific things, AND can cause diarrhea too.

If it's coccidia then albon is the standard go-to, but I tossed a big bottle of albon once I discovered ponazuril and how amazing it is!

Albon only inhibits the growth then relies on the cat's immune system to take care of getting rid of the parasites, where as ponazuril actually kills the cysts, and fast.

3-5 days once a day and done.