Kitten to multi-cat household introduction not progressing

[Sarah M]

Hi ,my name is Kwik - someone asked if I saw your thread and I fud not- I somehow missed welcoming you to TCS- so welcome and it's nice to meet you
-I started at the beginning moments ago but then I got to the point 4months in and you were talking about an upcoming move and seriously considering rehoming this 7mo old - so before I continue reading and hopefully will be able to offer some help and encouragement Id just like to know if you ard still looking to give thr kitten up for adoption?

I hope you don't mind me asking but I'd like to know whats in your heart- I don't believe in ' it won't,it can't,he doesn't,she never will ' .... Your cats are not singlets,it's a multi cat household to begin with but you have to set rules for your residents - what is acceptable and what is not- this takes time,patients,correction and reward - up for it?

Now,please understand that not everyone is well suited or equipped to train but cats are very trainable and they can be reconditioned with consistency,under gentle yet firm supervision.....

Well,before I read all the details may I ask your plans and what you are hoping to achieve?

Hello,

Well, I was seeking for someone to adopt Momo, but that was only because I was scared for her safety. She is a very timid cat and doesn't defend herself. I don't *want* to rehome her. I WANT them to get along and be friends at the very least, if not best buddies.

I have the belief that once a cat comes to my home, she is mine. It's how I ended up with 4 cats . I don't want to give her away, it brings tears to my eyes even thinking about it. So, in a way, I am desperate for this introduction to work. How can I find a home that understands how she likes to be cuddled and how she likes to sit on the shoulder while I run my errands or how she calls out to me every time she hears my voice. Or how calling her name has her running towards me. (I got a bit sentimental). Just yesterday, while cuddling her, I thought to myself, she is mine.

I'm willing to do what is needed and am already putting in the work.

I'm very attached to my cats, they are my babies. I know they can be trained, I know its different than dogs. I have already trained them well on No and Come so I know how it is. And the cats are all responding to Leave it as well, even without treats.

When I made the original post, I was tensed, frustrated, my family had all but said 'get out and take all the cats with you'. And then Nayla had attacked Momo. So it was like the last straw broke. But I found this community and it has given me hope. I really don't want to give Momo away. She is my baby, as are all the other three.

Any suggestions, you have, I will try.

 

[Sarah M]

Seems fine to me. She looks like she's communicating that she's done or taking a break..a bit stressed as her tail is curled around her, but not so stressed that it's tight to her body. (Can be a sign of cold too, just as a disclaimer. But if it was cold you'd expect her to crouch, not sit.)

It's certainly gotten colder over the past couple days, but I will take it as a sign of slight stress. Her pupils dilate fully, if she is in a lot of stress. So yeah, she was stressed, just a little less than before.

 

[Sarah M]

Yes- lead( leash )training - that's basic,great aid in obedience training because you have control---- if she's vocal it's highly likely she's not arguing but really paying attention and she's very engaged - she's complaining,not quite understanding what is pleasing to you

My Sami is a complainer,especially if he's not exactly sure what I'm asking and especially when he'd prefer to play fetch - Sami is a certified Therapy Animal so he has to pay attention and he's not been to work( at the hospital) for quite some time so hes gotton lazy about his performance --- hes a Bengal btw,a handful when bored

The only difference really between training a cat and training a dog is the short attention span of a cat,easily distracted- so timing is crucial

Makes sense about complaining versus arguing. But Nayla only vocalises if she doesn't want to do something but I still give her the command to. This usually plays out with the command of Come. She comes, but she meows all the way while coming to me.

I've never tried leash training Nayla. I could try that. Snow and Kaiya don't like to wear anything on their body, so it didn't go well when I did try leash training them. More than obedience, I want them to be comfortable.

I had read somewhere that giving cats multiple training at the same time is not advised. So will it be okay if I leash train her now as I am already doing the reintroductions?

 

[Alldara]

It's certainly gotten colder over the past couple days, but I will take it as a sign of slight stress. Her pupils dilate fully, if she is in a lot of stress. So yeah, she was stressed, just a little less than before.

Yes that is a good sign though! Lowered stress response rather than it being so high.

 

[Alldara]

I did recommend to my friend clicker training during introductions and that's gone well. You won't want to increase any stress but if you try it and find that it's engaging rather than building stress than I would think any type of training could be great even though you have intros going.

 

[Sarah M]

Sounds good to me. Now I've never actually introduced cats myself, but I've certainly read many posts from cat parents doing introductions, and this latest update from you sounds like a positive, or maybe I should say pawsitive, one.

Keep on doing what you're doing. Good luck. Keep the updates coming.

Thanks a lot

 

[Sarah M]

I did recommend to my friend clicker training during introductions and that's gone well. You won't want to increase any stress but if you try it and find that it's engaging rather than building stress than I would think any type of training could be great even though you have intros going.

In that case I will try leash training Nayla first. Nayla is a bit of a strange one. She is very high energy, with separation anxiety, wants to be pet like crazy, and is very attuned to my emotions. For context, she is 6 years old, will turn 7 this July, yet she plays even harder than Momo, who is less than a year old. She somersaults like its nothing and plays for more than an hour easily. And still wants to play more. So I guess, with her high energy and high need for connection, I can try multiple trainings with her to keep her engaged and at the end of the day, spent.

 

[Kwik]

Hello,

Well, I was seeking for someone to adopt Momo, but that was only because I was scared for her safety. She is a very timid cat and doesn't defend herself. I don't *want* to rehome her. I WANT them to get along and be friends at the very least, if not best buddies.

I have the belief that once a cat comes to my home, she is mine. It's how I ended up with 4 cats . I don't want to give her away, it brings tears to my eyes even thinking about it. So, in a way, I am desperate for this introduction to work. How can I find a home that understands how she likes to be cuddled and how she likes to sit on the shoulder while I run my errands or how she calls out to me every time she hears my voice. Or how calling her name has her running towards me. (I got a bit sentimental). Just yesterday, while cuddling her, I thought to myself, she is mine.

I'm willing to do what is needed and am already putting in the work.

I'm very attached to my cats, they are my babies. I know they can be trained, I know its different than dogs. I have already trained them well on No and Come so I know how it is. And the cats are all responding to Leave it as well, even without treats.

When I made the original post, I was tensed, frustrated, my family had all but said 'get out and take all the cats with you'. And then Nayla had attacked Momo. So it was like the last straw broke. But I found this community and it has given me hope. I really don't want to give Momo away. She is my baby, as are all the other three.

Any suggestions, you have, I will try.

Thank you for your reply- it's exactly what I hoped to hear and I'm thrilled,actually I'm over the moon with excitement for you

Let me begin in complete confidence to give you the assurance and encouragement to know " it will work "- your expectations are not at all unrealistic and everyone can live together harmoniously- as far as " best buddies" ,well not everyone ends up the best of pals but they can all find their respective places and get along well with one another-Nayla & Momo will come to a mutual peaceful relationship at the very least with your supervision and guidance

I always work cats individually ,cats are far too easily distracted and it requires one on one attention for success- introductions too . I understand Jackson Galaxys method begins and focuses on " eating together" in the initial stages with intros but thats a very small part to merge multi cat households and introductions..... there's much more to do that I have found to successfully introduce newcomers to multi residents into the clowder and that's done one cat at a time

In this way there's not the issue of redirected aggressions as well..... I always start with crating individuals

Let me get back to Nayla for a moment- yes ,,as I suggested lead training earlier, it is good to work with Nayla by her self --- one kitty at a time.Hes 2,right? That's a good age although Momo should be starting as well - I start them immediately when they are mine no matter their age,started Sami at one month old ( I use guinea pig harnesses for babies)

Anyway,if it's okay I'm going to reread all pages again to take some notes on some things I noticed early on that might have caused some obstacles- so just give me a little time and I'm more than happy to offer you my perspective and suggestions to help this integration go more smoothly for everyone

When are you moving?That might actually be helpful too btw,then everyone is in a new environment- there'll be some confusion but that's okay,,your going to be okay .... I can promise you that with your heart of hearts and willingness to go the distance and obvious ability to work hard that you are bound for success

 

[Sarah M]

Thank you for your reply- it's exactly what I hoped to hear and I'm thrilled,actually I'm over the moon with excitement for you

Let me begin in complete confidence to give you the assurance and encouragement to know " it will work "- your expectations are not at all unrealistic and everyone can live together harmoniously- as far as " best buddies" ,well not everyone ends up the best of pals but they can all find their respective places and get along well with one another-Nayla & Momo will come to a mutual peaceful relationship at the very least with your supervision and guidance

I always work cats individually ,cats are far too easily distracted and it requires one on one attention for success- introductions too . I understand Jackson Galaxys method begins and focuses on " eating together" in the initial stages with intros but thats a very small part to merge multi cat households and introductions..... there's much more to do that I have found to successfully introduce newcomers to multi residents into the clowder and that's done one cat at a time

In this way there's not the issue of redirected aggressions as well..... I always start with crating individuals

Let me get back to Nayla for a moment- yes ,,as I suggested lead training earlier, it is good to work with Nayla by her self --- one kitty at a time.Hes 2,right? That's a good age although Momo should be starting as well - I start them immediately when they are mine no matter their age,started Sami at one month old ( I use guinea pig harnesses for babies)

Anyway,if it's okay I'm going to reread all pages again to take some notes on some things I noticed early on that might have caused some obstacles- so just give me a little time and I'm more than happy to offer you my perspective and suggestions to help this integration go more smoothly for everyone

When are you moving?That might actually be helpful too btw,then everyone is in a new environment- there'll be some confusion but that's okay,,your going to be okay .... I can promise you that with your heart of hearts and willingness to go the distance and obvious ability to work hard that you are bound for success

Thanks a lot for the encouragement

I have used Jackson Galaxy’s method for introducing Snow to Nayla, and then Kaiya to Snow and Nayla. It had worked in the past so much so that within 2 weeks they were integrated with one another and living peacefully each time.

Nayla is 6 years old, Snow is 5 years old, Kaiya is 4 years old. All female, all spayed.

I will begin leash training Momo and Nayla today onwards. I already have a cat least that I will be using for Nayla. I will buy a smaller one for Momo.

I will be moving in the month of July. The actual date is uncertain, it could be beginning of July, mid, or end.

Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I will be waiting for your reply . I am following the method suggested by Vpaon06, which is this one: Kitten to multi-cat household introduction not progressing

If you want any more information, please just ask me. I want to work asap.
Thank you so much again

 

[Kwik]

Thanks a lot for the encouragement

I have used Jackson Galaxy’s method for introducing Snow to Nayla, and then Kaiya to Snow and Nayla. It had worked in the past so much so that within 2 weeks they were integrated with one another and living peacefully each time.

Nayla is 6 years old, Snow is 5 years old, Kaiya is 4 years old. All female, all spayed.

I will begin leash training Momo and Nayla today onwards. I already have a cat least that I will be using for Nayla. I will buy a smaller one for Momo.

I will be moving in the month of July. The actual date is uncertain, it could be beginning of July, mid, or end.

Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I will be waiting for your reply . I am following the method suggested by Vpaon06, which is this one: Kitten to multi-cat household introduction not progressing

If you want any more information, please just ask me. I want to work asap.
Thank you so much again

It is my good pleasure and I will be here when I'm finished and I already have lots of questions so I'm glad to know you don't mind my asking

Just resist those old thoughts that pop in every now and again- negative or discouraging thoughts.....stay positive and we will all hold your hand through this " time " and until you are all past it you'll get support and encouragement becsuse there's so very much to look forward to as you well know.....Remain positive & we'll talk very soon. This time of day I have alot going on but it shouldn't take too long to finish up

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi, I apologize if I missed that it's been mentioned already, but just a quick thought for your high energy cat, would she use a cat wheel? Sometimes one of those comes up on craigslist, letgo, Nextdoor etc for less than full price new.

 

[Sarah M]

Hi, I apologize if I missed that it's been mentioned already, but just a quick thought for your high energy cat, would she use a cat wheel? Sometimes one of those comes up on craigslist, letgo, Nextdoor etc for less than full price new.

Hello, well she doesn't like to run. She is more of a jumper/pouncer rather than a runner. Snow is a runner so I can tell the difference. But in any case, I was planning to invest in a cat wheel, once I move. I will try to find a second hand one, as I live in the UAE, so these channels are not available to me. I will try on some local second hand marketplaces here. But I'm afriad, buying a new one is not in my budget at the moment. I will definitely be getting one, once I move, but not right now (new one, that is). Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Kwik]

Hi Sarah....
I've got a lot of questions from the first page- I'm a sticker for detail but after decades of assessing behaviorial issues there's no better way to pinpoint the reason .Having said that I cannot get past page one without asking for more information

Let's see if I got this right- 3femsle resident - Momo joined in about June or July but was confined to a safe room (2 months)until she was well nourished and all clear ,which was Sept- correct? Now here's my questions- during the time of separation did you scent swap with items,beds etc after the initial 30 day quarantine time? Which would be scent swapping and also let her explore the next room without the residents and let the residents ( best one at a time,explore her room)?

After 60 days you should be up to room swapping --- here is where I see something as a problem because MoMo has not yet expanded the territory exploration to be familiarized and the unfamiliar territory is being guarded

Can you take me back to that time frame,I believe I see the reasons for the residents reactions ( chargingN chasing) and the baby terrified and wetting- she's not confident outside the boundaries of her established territory-

If I'm getting the picture accurately we can just back it all up to the exploration stage so the residents have an easier time with acceptance in their territory ( intros should be in Momo's ground) and residents crated at first imo and Momo had no confidence because she's on their side of at the turf boundary line- making sense so far?

 

[Sarah M]

Hi Sarah....
I've got a lot of questions from the first page- I'm a sticker for detail but after decades of assessing behaviorial issues there's no better way to pinpoint the reason .Having said that I cannot get past page one without asking for more information

Let's see if I got this right- 3femsle resident - Momo joined in about June or July but was confined to a safe room (2 months)until she was well nourished and all clear ,which was Sept- correct? Now here's my questions- during the time of separation did you scent swap with items,beds etc after the initial 30 day quarantine time? Which would be scent swapping and also let her explore the next room without the residents and let the residents ( best one at a time,explore her room)?

After 60 days you should be up to room swapping --- here is where I see something as a problem because MoMo has not yet expanded the territory exploration to be familiarized and the unfamiliar territory is being guarded

Can you take me back to that time frame,I believe I see the reasons for the residents reactions ( chargingN chasing) and the baby terrified and wetting- she's not confident outside the boundaries of her established territory-

If I'm getting the picture accurately we can just back it all up to the exploration stage so the residents have an easier time with acceptance in their territory ( intros should be in Momo's ground) and residents crated at first imo and Momo had no confidence because she's on their side of at the turf boundary line- making sense so far?

Thanks for the question, and I feel like I didn't explain properly.

Yes, you are correct. Momo joined in June/July and was confined to her room for 2 months. During this time, she was so thin that she could barely move and had no energy. Initial vet checks were fine, she was just malnourished, but I still kept her separated for 2 months.

After around one month of her being in my home, I started taking her out in my room for short periods. While the resident cats explored her room. I used to give each treats for positive association. Then when she was comfortable in my room, I introduced her to the living room.
Momo had also gotten quite comfortable in the living room and also had a spot on the sofa she liked to sit at.

The resident cats had not seen her at this time.

I started feeding them on opposite sides of the door (closed) in September. I never stopped site swapping. I do it even now.

Also, the resident cats would use her stuff easily, they were not so stressed out after the first few days.

I never crated the residents. Nor did I crate Momo.

I have the pet gate setup at Momo's rooms door. All eating sessions happened in Momo at her side of the room and residents cat outside of the room. So all in their respective territories. Was that the issue?

Momo was never on their side of the turf. The resident cats crossed into Momo's turf and attacked her.

Also, another point is that the spare room where Momo lives was not used by the cats before. It was a neutral, unused space.

Does that make sense?

 

[Kwik]

Yes,makes perfect sense- yes I do believe the territory is the root of the issues- residents dud not use spare room so I believe Momo should be crated in " her" territory while one cat at a time is left loose in that room and then visa versa- when there is a problem such as what is transporting they must occupy the same space while safe- curiosity of course is good( sniffing through the bars) but ignoring is even better .....the crated cat should be completely relaxed,doze off bored in the crate before actually attempting unprotected intros.... in both territories

Cats behave very differently when in unfamiliar grounds- so we do want to supervise unprotected meetings after that room is part of everyone's terrory.....remember though that the amount of " time" for meetings is very insignificant- most folks will push the interactions to the point " just before:" something happens or basically when one kitty has obviously had enough ( like the photo of your girl sitting against the door- she's had enough)

We want to always STOP while it great and no further,cats tend to remember the last ,how they left off- always want to end a session on a good note---- distract and play if you will but end on a good thing for them to associate their last engagements with

Also,you mentioned Momo being the only one to use the litter box in her room - is thst still so? Sharing litter boxes is important before intros- reading being is getting them accustomed to sharing space..... plus another box is a good idea,like putting one next to the one most frequently used- you should start noticing they'll start using one for urine & one for feces..... should always be amount of cats plus one more.....they get to know each other by using shared boxes and become very tolerant--- you do not have food competition but territory is an issue we need to get them past.....

 

[Kwik]

So my point is that it's not neutral space,it is Momos established territory- is thst where the charging takes place?

 

[Sarah M]

Yes,makes perfect sense- yes I do believe the territory is the root of the issues- residents dud not use spare room so I believe Momo should be crated in " her" territory while one cat at a time is left loose in that room and then visa versa- when there is a problem such as what is transporting they must occupy the same space while safe- curiosity of course is good( sniffing through the bars) but ignoring is even better .....the crated cat should be completely relaxed,doze off bored in the crate before actually attempting unprotected intros.... in both territories

Cats behave very differently when in unfamiliar grounds- so we do want to supervise unprotected meetings after that room is part of everyone's terrory.....remember though that the amount of " time" for meetings is very insignificant- most folks will push the interactions to the point " just before:" something happens or basically when one kitty has obviously had enough ( like the photo of your girl sitting against the door- she's had enough)

We want to always STOP while it great and no further,cats tend to remember the last ,how they left off- always want to end a session on a good note---- distract and play if you will but end on a good thing for them to associate their last engagements with

Also,you mentioned Momo being the only one to use the litter box in her room - is thst still so? Sharing litter boxes is important before intros- reading being is getting them accustomed to sharing space..... plus another box is a good idea,like putting one next to the one most frequently used- you should start noticing they'll start using one for urine & one for feces..... should always be amount of cats plus one more.....they get to know each other by using shared boxes and become very tolerant--- you do not have food competition but territory is an issue we need to get them past.....

So, what you are saying is I keep Momo inside the crate, and let say Nayla enter her Momo's room? I'm just predicating here, but Nayla will puff up and Momo will be scared with nowhere to hide. Nayla will swat at the crate, growl, hiss etc. What do you recommend I do when this happens? As in how do I change that behaviour so that both of them are relaxed?

 

[Sarah M]

So my point is that it's not neutral space,it is Momos established territory- is thst where the charging takes place?

Yes, I meant that before Momo came home, that room was neutral and not used. Now of course, it has become her territory.

Yes, couple of times the charging happened there and once when Momo accidentally ran out to explore the living room, Kaiya attacked her in the living room.

 

[Kwik]

So, what you are saying is I keep Momo inside the crate, and let say Nayla enter her Momo's room? I'm just predicating here, but Nayla will puff up and Momo will be scared with nowhere to hide. Nayla will swat at the crate, growl, hiss etc. What do you recommend I do when this happens? As in how do I change that behaviour so that both of them are relaxed?

Okay,that means Nayla has to be inside the crate until she learns to relax in the same space as Momo( first off,does she typicslly relax when crated?) No,we don't want Momo inside a crate terrified,start with one of the others so Momo understands she can't be harmed by a cat in a crate and visa versa ---- we begin with the easiest cats first to get Momo used to a visitor in a crate..... It's a slow and safe process,I know it's time consuming and difficult in your position but these things are going to help tremendously when it comes time to move and the real intros will begin without pressure

I understand the outside pressures you feel not in your own space --- you're gonna be fine

 

[Sarah M]

Hey guys, just a quick update.

I'm going back to basics and taking it slowly. I've incorporated many of the suggestions you guys have provided.

Just focusing on one cat at a time. So now, I'm using the crate method to get Snow and Momo used to each other. Its been progressing well. With Nayla and Kaiya, I am leash training them and only doing scent and site swapping. Once Momo and Snow are okay with each other, then I will do the same with Kaiya and Nayla.

We'll see how it goes. I just have to be patient and lead my cats to integrate with one another slowly slowly. The self-imposed deadline of 'I want them to be integrated' is not helping the case. I'm just taking it one very small baby step at a time. Wish me luck.

I will keep posting periodic updates here.