Kitten bites and is crazy - help please...

[kittytrouble]

Hi - I'm new to this forum, searched it out due to being at a loss at how to handle the situation I'm in. So, some background first - I live with my mother, we had a cat for 17 years that passed away last year. She was the best cat, so loving and affectionate, so in tune with us completely. After she passed, we thought we would have liked to get another cat eventually, and we always check out the cats for adoption, wondering when we should or if we're ready. 

Well - the decision kinda got made for us, as 5 days ago, a kitten showed up on our doorstep during a rainstorm, freaking out and crying, wanting to come in. My mother wanted to take it in because we're both animal lovers and didnt' want this poor kitten panicking outside. We put it in a big cage that we had, and for the rest of the day, keeping it in there, getting to know it. It was very sweet and affectionate, letting us pet it through the cage and wanting to rub up against our hands. 

The next day, we started letting it out in our house for an hour at a time (very small house by the way, just two rooms for her to run in for now). But she's absolutely crazy when she's out of the cage. Like a completely different cat in and out. She's in a frenzy running throughout the rooms, she runs at us and tries to attack us, but then at the same time, is scared of us. I figured it's just because it's a kitten and it'll be fine when it tires itself out. But it absolutely refuses to be petted or picked up. We try to pet it, and it just goes after us. And it doesn't calm down by itself either. It just keeps going and going, getting more frenzied, until eventually it just outright tries to attack my mother's legs without stop, and we're forced to put her back in the cage, which apparently is a good thing for her because then she calms down immediately in there. 

So literally - inside cage: good, sweet and affectionate through the bars. Outside cage: frenzied and crazy, that hates hands and attacks. 

I don't think this is a born wild stray, as it's familiar with humans, and tried to get into our house out of the rain. So I'm assuming it lived somewhere before. I'm trying to figure out why it's behaving like this. Maybe it was a house with kids and it's used to fleeing from people and hands/ and perhaps playing directly with people's hands?

So regardless of how it got this way - we are at a complete loss at how to start changing it's behavior. We're taking it to the vet on Monday, they will see if there is a microchip. But if it doesn't have one, we were wanting to keep it, but now we're not so sure we can handle this cat if it doesn't stop this current attacking and frenzied behavior. It would be hard to willingly give it up because we get attached to animals very quickly, and it's so sweet when in the cage. 

We try to get it desensitized by petting it a bit and holding it right out of the cage before letting it play and get riled up. We make sure to firmly say no when it's attacking our hands and redirect it to a toy, but I'm not sure what more we could do. It doesn't calm down outside the cage so far - it gets more and more frenzied until we have to put it back in. 

When we remember back to when my previous cat was a kitten, we remember that she was of course very playful and had to be careful with teaching her about hands, but she also would be capable of calming down outside of a cage, she would cuddle up with us and let us pet her... so, we're at a loss with a kitten that we can't touch at all when it's out. I think it's too stressful for us to just keep a cat that wants to attack us all the time. So, any advice on what to do to help with her? My mom is really unsure about keeping her because she wants an affectionate cat, while I feel we should at least give her a chance and see if she can improve, but I'm not sure how long we should try before saying we can't keep her either. 

Any help or advice would be MUCH appreciated. 

 

[kittens mom]

If you plan on keeping this kitten you should really take it to the vet and have it examined get it wormed etc and a good vet will help you with behavior issues. Or at least be able to give some reasonable advice. Thank you for taking it in.

 

[LotsOfFur]

How old do you think this kitten is? Can you post any video so other members can see the behavior you are talking about?

 

[donna cardinale]

I agree with all the above. Here's a good website about kitten behavior. http://www.vvhcny.com/proper-play-wkittens.pml

 

[kittytrouble]

Hi - thank you for the replies and I apologize for the late response. I decided to give her some more time and see if she gets used to the situation more. I appreciate the link to the kitty behavior, a few of those tips we started doing already, though not to much avail unfortunately. I don't have the means to makes a video, but I'll try to describe the behaviour as best I can. As for age, we took her to the vet, and it seems she is around 5-7 months of age. 

Positives are - she's getting more used to us touching her. When she's somewhat calm, we can pet her on the back, she rubs against our legs at times, and when we have to pick her up, she doesn't always fight our hands, sometimes she'll just hang there and let us move her. So, there's the positives, she's not as horrified of hands as much. 

Still a whole lot of negative though. I'll try to illustrate the typical day. I work from home from my computer, so I'm with her every day all day. In the morning, she'll get fed in her cage, and I'll have my breakfast. Then, I let her out, she's still sleepy and thankful, so she rubs against my legs and I'm able to pet her for a few minutes. Then, after about 2 minutes, she enters full-on play mode. So, I get the toys and have really interactive, fast-paced, varied play with her for about 15-20 minutes, or until she starts pooping out and laying down. Then she usually goes and looks out the window. At that point, I usually try to sit down at my laptop and start some work. But she probably give it 4 minutes at the window, and then she gets up and makes this strange kinda of meow. Like an upset-sounding "brrr" type of meow. And then she starts running and causing trouble. 

I'll usually get up at that point and try playing with her some more, or trying to get her interested in her balls and cat puzzle boxes. But it really doesn't last very long. As soon I personally stop playing with her and showing her attention, she immediately runs into the dining room and kitchen and starts jumping at the tables and counters where we're trying to teach her not to jump, chewing at the decorations. I have no idea how to keep her off the counters. At first, I just tried to consistently say "no, get down!" and taking off her off physically. But I was starting to handle the stress very badly, because she was doing it CONSTANTLY. I yell at her, pick her up to take her down (most of the time she claws me back), I try to get her engaged in a proper toy, and as soon as I sit down to my laptop, she sprints back out to the kitchen. The combination of having to yell at an animal, get clawed by it, and not getting ANY work done - was stressing me out beyond what I could take, as this was happening constantly for weeks now. I started actually having stressful crying spells. 

I tried putting aluminum foil on the counters - no luck, not fazed. I tried scaring her with lemon-smelling wipes - she certainly doesn't like it if it's in her face, but it doesn't stop the behaviour, and leaving one there doesn't deter at all. My mom starting using a spray bottle to get her down. I recognize this is a bad tool, but it was our last option we could think of. I usually just spray it in the air, not at her, and she runs. But it doesn't deter the behaviour at all either, and she even starting ignoring it altogether. 

When she's not sleepy-eyed, just woken up, it's nearly impossible to touch her without her thinking your hand is a toy. We've tried the behaviour modification that was linked on that website, but so far she isn't really getting the hint. She still attacks our legs when she's bored. She just keeps going and going and going! She seems to need constant attention and play. When we first brought her in, she would play her toys by herself just fine. But now she won't, unless the toys are being moved by a human, she doesn't care about them. And as soon as you stop personally playing with her, she starts looking around for what trouble she can cause, what can she jump on to cause us to freak out at her. I try to get her to just lay down on a blanket, unfortunately when I pat the blanket, or fix the blanket, trying to get her to go on it, she just dive-bombs my hand and latches on. If I'm lucky, once I get my hand away, she realizes how nice the blanket is and lays down and sleeps. Many times though, I simply CANNOT get her to calm down, and she'll keep getting more and more excited and devious and jumping on tables, until my patience explodes and I put her back in the cage. 

After being in the cage for a few hours, I'll let her out again, doing it all again. When my mother comes home later, she takes over a bit for the sake of my sanity, but then the cat seems to have a weird habit with regard to my mom too. When she starts getting over-excited, she ends up specifically targeting my mother and jumping and latching onto her arms and legs. 

We try to play with her as much as we can - but it's hard to do when she needs it literally every second she is out of the cage. My work is slowing and suffering because of this, my mental state is getting way too stressed (I work from home because I get overwhelmed and depressed by stress very easily). We get no reprieve unless she's in the cage, or we're lucky enough to have her just pass out. 

We don't remember our previous cat acting this way at her age. She was frisky sure, but never THIS much energy, and lack of affection. I hate to say it, but we have pets because we feel they add some element of joy to our lives, and we're just not getting that with this kitten. Perhaps I can handle the stress better if she had some down time where she expressed affection - but we're literally getting nothing from this kitten except annoyance, stress, and bites. No prolonged petting (unless she just got let out, first minutes or two), no snuggling. 

It would be hard for us to get rid of her, because we get attached to animals very quickly. I remember when I had a bunch of rats, and we had to adopt out one that wasn't getting along with the others, and we were crying. So, I know I'd cry and feel awful if we gave her up. I just don't know how to modify this behaviour, and I'm not sure how long I should give her a chance to change, it's been about a month now, and I'm getting no real affection from her, only hair-falling-out stress.  

Is it normal for kittens to act this extreme? Is there any hope here? 

 

[talkingpeanut]

Why are you keeping her in a cage at all? How big is the cage? She sounds like she doesn't have enough of an outlet for her energy.

Can you describe how you play with her? Do you reward her when she does what you want? Yelling isn't helping either of you.

Do you trim her nails? Is she fixed?

 

[kittytrouble]

Why are you keeping her in a cage at all? How big is the cage? She sounds like she doesn't have enough of an outlet for her energy.

Can you describe how you play with her? Do you reward her when she does what you want? Yelling isn't helping either of you.

Do you trim her nails? Is she fixed?

We have to keep her in a cage at night or when we're not at home - otherwise we'd come home to the curtains and the christmas tree on the floor, and probably stuff destroyed. We're simply not ready for her to be free unattended, we've only had her for a month. And obviously, when I need a break after hours of this, she needs to be contained so I can recoop. Running around for hours isn't enough of an outlet? She obviously is getting tired when she runs around like a nut, because once I put her in the cage she immediately lays down and goes to sleep, doesn't complain about it at all. I think she has trouble calming down on her own, outside the cage. The cage is 3 or 4 feet long, I'm not sure exactly but it's pretty large, I didn't measure, but it's the one we used previously when my old cat was a kitten. We only used it until we were confident she would be alright on her own. 

I play with her a string toy, feather toy - I hide those behind stuff, she likes to stalk them. I also play with them through the bars on the steps, as she likes to run up and down and try to get it through the bars. We have a crinkly tube that she loves to run through when we throw balls in it. We've made a few cat boxes with holes in them, to have her try to figure out how to get balls out of it. Stuff like that. I'm planning on getting a laser pointer toy next time I go to the store, so I can play with her without getting too weared out myself. I reward her by having a nice voice, and trying to pet her at times. I've tried giving her some food as a reward but she isn't interested if she's not hungry. 

No, we haven't trimmed her nails yet - we're honestly a bit too scared of getting clawed up because we can't hold her without her fighting. For a kitten she sure is strong and can bite and claw extremely painfully. 

No, she isn't fixed yet, we just found out she wasn't a week ago. We would do it of course, we got our previous cat fixed, but we were gonna wait a little while before committing to the expense. Do you think that would make a difference in her energy level and behaviour? 

 

[talkingpeanut]

Yes, I do think that spaying with her should help.  You don't know how much of this is driven by hormones.

I can tell how exhausted you are with dealing with this.  It just sounds to me like what you're doing isn't working, and maybe you need to regroup.  It doesn't sound like she's getting a lot of positive, calm interaction.  Could you take the drapes down for now?  Crating her is probably causing her to be more frustrated.  Is there a room she could have to herself instead?  And how often are you playing with her?  She should plop down panting at the end of a playing session, and you should do this several times a day if possible.  Does she have places to curl up that are hers?

Trimming her nails would help you to be more confident with her as well.  

Have you considered getting a second kitten for her to play with?  How about a Feliway diffuser to calm her?

 

[kittytrouble]

 
Yes, I do think that spaying with her should help.  You don't know how much of this is driven by hormones.

I can tell how exhausted you are with dealing with this.  It just sounds to me like what you're doing isn't working, and maybe you need to regroup.  It doesn't sound like she's getting a lot of positive, calm interaction.  Could you take the drapes down for now?  Crating her is probably causing her to be more frustrated.  Is there a room she could have to herself instead?  And how often are you playing with her?  She should plop down panting at the end of a playing session, and you should do this several times a day if possible.  Does she have places to curl up that are hers?

Trimming her nails would help you to be more confident with her as well.  

Have you considered getting a second kitten for her to play with?  How about a Feliway diffuser to calm her?

Hmm, I guess we'll have to get her spayed as soon as we're able. The vet said that she wasn't old enough to be getting into heat yet, so we figured it wouldn't hurt to just put it off until we have the extra money for it, but if it's causing her to be super hyper and tense or something, then I suppose it's better to do it sooner. 

She doesn't seem stressed out when she's in the cage (actually she seems really calm in it), but I suppose youre' right that it could be causing her to have all her energy penned up and then it just explodes out when she's let out. We don't have any rooms that could be only hers as we have a small city house. I wouldn't mind cat-proofing my room so she could chill in there when we're out, but that would involve putting her litter box and everything in there, not the ideal situation obviously haha. 

She does plop down and seemed tired after my playing sessions with her, but the problem is always that it ends up being a fake-out. She looks tired, and then sits at the window, making me think it'd be okay to go on my laptop for a bit, but then she'll get up and have a burst of energy as she runs to the forbidden areas and thus it begins lol. How many playing sessions are typical? As her energy seems to keep going for like 2-3 hours straight. I had made her a make-shift bed in a box, but she showed no interest in sleeping in it, she prefers the couches. 

I had mentioned the second kitten idea to my mom, as I had read that they end up playing with each other. But she was very opposed to the idea, she just said she had this image of two kittens attacking us and jumping on counters instead of one. I looked up the diffuser just now, it sounds interesting, I might give it a try. 

What would your advice be about keeping her off tables and counters? It's the thing that gives me the most stress as my mom insists that I not ignore it, that I have to get her every single time. She's starting to ignore me completely. I can yell, clap my hands, even spraying at her -  is all going ignored now. Is there anything I can do more that is more effective? 

 

[donna cardinale]

Yes, spaying is a great idea. That type of meow while looking out the window sounds like a cat in heat. I had a cat that went into heat at that same age...earlier than most.
After spaying I would consider letting it be an inside/outside cat. My cats have always been. They are much calmer that way. I tried keeping a kitten totally inside years ago, and he was really crazy.
It sounds like he likes to climb and be in high places, like your counters. If a cat can't climb trees and fences then he needs a cat tower or perch (available where pet products are sold). Jackson Galaxy of the tv series "My Cat From Hell" often has his clients build high shelflike walking spaces in their houses so the cat can feel like its in a more natural habitat. Cats are territorial and need spots like that. Being high helps them feel safe. They're naturally curious so being up high gives them a good view of things. I personally let my cat on the counters. He never wants people food, so after he smells it he just jumps down having satisfied his curiosity.
There are more ideas for cat behavior problems on Galaxy's website. That's his specialty.
Actually having another kitten is a great idea, too. They usually turn their attention just to one another and play a lot. However, I don't know how your cat would react to another cat. It's better to do that when they're younger.
Good luck!

 

[talkingpeanut]

 
Hmm, I guess we'll have to get her spayed as soon as we're able. The vet said that she wasn't old enough to be getting into heat yet, so we figured it wouldn't hurt to just put it off until we have the extra money for it, but if it's causing her to be super hyper and tense or something, then I suppose it's better to do it sooner. 

She doesn't seem stressed out when she's in the cage (actually she seems really calm in it), but I suppose youre' right that it could be causing her to have all her energy penned up and then it just explodes out when she's let out. We don't have any rooms that could be only hers as we have a small city house. I wouldn't mind cat-proofing my room so she could chill in there when we're out, but that would involve putting her litter box and everything in there, not the ideal situation obviously haha. 

She does plop down and seemed tired after my playing sessions with her, but the problem is always that it ends up being a fake-out. She looks tired, and then sits at the window, making me think it'd be okay to go on my laptop for a bit, but then she'll get up and have a burst of energy as she runs to the forbidden areas and thus it begins lol. How many playing sessions are typical? As her energy seems to keep going for like 2-3 hours straight. I had made her a make-shift bed in a box, but she showed no interest in sleeping in it, she prefers the couches. 

I had mentioned the second kitten idea to my mom, as I had read that they end up playing with each other. But she was very opposed to the idea, she just said she had this image of two kittens attacking us and jumping on counters instead of one. I looked up the diffuser just now, it sounds interesting, I might give it a try. 

What would your advice be about keeping her off tables and counters? It's the thing that gives me the most stress as my mom insists that I not ignore it, that I have to get her every single time. She's starting to ignore me completely. I can yell, clap my hands, even spraying at her -  is all going ignored now. Is there anything I can do more that is more effective? 

She just seems a bit too old to be crated to me.  A room with activities to do would be better.  Litter boxes don't smell much if they're scooped daily.

You want to wait until she's panting a bit to stop playing.  That's how you know it's real.  I would do this 2-3 times a day, maybe before you need to work so she's tired out.

The idea to get her off counters is to make is unappealing, not to punish her.  Discipline, obviously, doesn't work.  Put double sided tape or foil or try combinations that you haven't already.  She may also be doing things because she wants attention because she's bored.  As I said, she needs positive interaction and to be exhausted a few times a day.