Kitten and Old Cat- What to do 4 Months Later?

[duckdodgers]

In October I added Stella, a ~6 week old kitten to my household.  I already had an elderly cat, Alafair, who was not enormously pleased with the newcomer.  For the first couple of weeks Stella stayed locked in the back part of the apartment while Alafair continued her reign over the front, and after a couple of weeks started to slowly introduce them.  I did such things as trading blankets between the two of them, allowing them to sniff each other under the door, feeding them next to each other, etc.  There was never any physical violence between the two of them, only growling/hissing from Alafair. 

The problem I am finding is that Alafair's growling/hissing/general dislike for Stella is not lessening at all.  The two are still separated when I am away or asleep, but I allow them to go where they please for the most part when I am home.  When Alafair is asleep on her bed there is never a problem- she just hangs out while Stella does kitteny things.  However, when she wakes up there is hostility between the two.  Stella seems very intent on playing with the "big cat", but Alafair wants nothing to do with her.  Alafair will be walking around and Stella will just run up behind her and jump on her butt or attack her tail, and Alafair responds by repeatedly hissing and slapping at her.  This used to deter Stella, but she just seems to treat it like a game now.  Jump on Alafair, duck down and get slapped in the face, make trilling noises at her and run back after her when she leaves.  If Alafair is sitting on the edge of the couch, Stella will run up to her and make more trilling noises at her, and usually get slapped again. 

I've tried to make similar noises to Stella and she ran up to me super excited seeming, so I think she is just trying to play with Alafair and be friendly.  She does not seem to understand that the hissing and growling mean "go away, leave me alone!", or she just ignores it.  I understand that her social skills may not be as developed as they should be since she was taken from her mother at a young age, but it was either that or stay feral. 

What should I do at this point to make life with a kitten more tolerable for Alafair?  She just had her 17th birthday yesterday, and I don't want the rest of her life to be made unpleasant by an unwanted newcomer.  She has time to herself for a good portion of the day/all night, I spend time with her while Stella is put away, and try to play with Stella enough to wear her out, but I am evidently a poor substitution for a cat buddy

  I guess I just need advice as to where to go from here.  Things aren't terrible between the two, but I would like for them to be better.  Ignoring each other would be ideal. 

Oh, and I put in a Feliway diffuser at the beginning of the month.  It hasn't been in for too terribly long, but it also hasn't seemed to make a lick of difference. 

 

[yayi]

I think you should continue what you are doing. You are right about little Stella, she is just being friendly. Is there a place where Alafair can go to get away from Stella? 

 

[tammyp]

Ok, as crazy as this sounds...get another kitten.  It's not something I have experience with, but it sounds like you are in the situation this super knowledgable lady writes about.  And it makes sense!  Alafair wants peace and quiet (and not to be tackled!); Stella wants to PLAY.  Another kitten gives Stella all the play she could want and Alafair will be left in peace and dignity.  (Also, at 17, perhaps two kittens will carry on happily after she passes as well - sorry to mention it, it's never something we want to think about).

This is what someone in your situation reports on getting the second kitten:

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/dear-pammy-its-true-about-cat-civilization/18093

And this is the post on how to choose a third cat (outlining the old cat/kitten problem):

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/how-to-choose-a-third-cat/8848

 

[duckdodgers]

I think you should continue what you are doing. You are right about little Stella, she is just being friendly. Is there a place where Alafair can go to get away from Stella? 

There is nowhere that she can go with a no-kitten guarantee while Stella is out, but she generally is not bothered while she's in her bed.  She can jump on top of the dryer where her food is kept and Stella will not jump up there (don't really know why), but in a one-bedroom apartment it's hard to keep an area completely apart.  That said, I will put Stella in the bedroom/bathroom (where all of her stuff is kept) when I am away, when she gets too rowdy, or when I want to give her some peace. 

Ok, as crazy as this sounds...get another kitten.  It's not something I have experience with, but it sounds like you are in the situation this super knowledgable lady writes about.  And it makes sense!  Alafair wants peace and quiet (and not to be tackled!); Stella wants to PLAY.  Another kitten gives Stella all the play she could want and Alafair will be left in peace and dignity.  (Also, at 17, perhaps two kittens will carry on happily after she passes as well - sorry to mention it, it's never something we want to think about).

This is what someone in your situation reports on getting the second kitten:

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/dear-pammy-its-true-about-cat-civilization/18093

And this is the post on how to choose a third cat (outlining the old cat/kitten problem):

http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/how-to-choose-a-third-cat/8848

While I really do appreciate the suggestion- it makes a lot of sense and I would consider it if I could- another kitten is unfortunately out of the question right now.  Perhaps a year from now I could, but things will hopefully have settled down by then.  I can't really afford the few hundred dollars in initial costs to begin with.  My apartment complex has a two animal limit, and while I could probably get away without them noticing my dad (who pays my rent as of now) won't allow it.  He already said that two is my limit. 

I'm kind of stuck in a hard place- Stella showed up in my life and I was unwilling to keep her due to the stress that it would cause on my old girl.  I couldn't find a place for her though, and I got to the point where I either needed to do something with her or discuss it with my dad and adopt her.  I was going to wait until Alafair passes (hopefully a few years away!) to get another cat, but the guilt that I would have felt by turning over a beautiful, perfectly healthy and friendly kitten would have been too great. 

 

[tammyp]

I hear ya DuckDogers!  Life has constraints and I'm so glad you gave your kitten a home.  I'd explore the idea of making Alafair only places/ways to escape.  There's some amazingly clever ideas out there for small spaces  and it could be just a matter of a few clever cheap furniture pieces to create a cat causeway or higher spaces that Alafair can use.  Check out:

http://jacksongalaxy.com/category/catification/climbing-perching/

and then surf some ideas on the ikeahackers site.  The Jackson Galaxy site carries some ideas used in his shows - so you may want to look them up to see the situtation and solution rationale behind the 'furniture'.

We are currently being the sole cat entertainment for a super energetic kitten (now 2) and have realised the advice to get him a playmate will actually be a lifesaver!  Unfortunately, life has interferred, so we are still waiting, and having to work hard to expend that energy!  I understand. Keep at it!

 

[syds mum]

Hi there

Im new to this forum and have posted a similar problem I am having with my kitten and two older cats. Take a look! I posted a couple of hours ago. Unfortunatelyt no one has replied to me to give me any advice and im clearly at a loss as to where i go from here . I certainly sympathise with you. Its so stressful trying to watch out for the older ones all the time.....

Thanks

 

[duckdodgers]

I hear ya DuckDogers!  Life has constraints and I'm so glad you gave your kitten a home.  I'd explore the idea of making Alafair only places/ways to escape.  There's some amazingly clever ideas out there for small spaces  and it could be just a matter of a few clever cheap furniture pieces to create a cat causeway or higher spaces that Alafair can use.  Check out:

http://jacksongalaxy.com/category/catification/climbing-perching/

and then surf some ideas on the ikeahackers site.  The Jackson Galaxy site carries some ideas used in his shows - so you may want to look them up to see the situtation and solution rationale behind the 'furniture'.

We are currently being the sole cat entertainment for a super energetic kitten (now 2) and have realised the advice to get him a playmate will actually be a lifesaver!  Unfortunately, life has interferred, so we are still waiting, and having to work hard to expend that energy!  I understand. Keep at it!

Thanks for the sites!  I may look into getting her her own "special place".  See how that works. 

Hi there

Im new to this forum and have posted a similar problem I am having with my kitten and two older cats. Take a look! I posted a couple of hours ago. Unfortunatelyt no one has replied to me to give me any advice and im clearly at a loss as to where i go from here . I certainly sympathise with you. Its so stressful trying to watch out for the older ones all the time.....

Thanks!

I'll check it out a little later when I get the chance- it seems to be a fairly common problem in multiple cat households.  HOpefully someone will come and respond to your specific situation soon!

 

[lizzimi]

I was in the same situation as you. Lulu was 11 when I adopted Izzi who was 6 months old. Lulu hated her. She actually still hates her. I read every article on the internet about how to make them get along... nothing worked. Every article said "get another kitten!" which I couldn't... well, turns out another kitten came into my life when Izzi was almost 1. My boyfriend took in a 4 week old kitten and his parents told him that she couldn't stay there more than a couple months. My parents were set against it but eventually were okay with it. If I didn't bring home MiMi I'm sure that Lulu and Izzi would have ended up murdering each other. She's 9 months younger than Izzi but she created peace among the kitties. It's weird though, Lulu will play with her and is okay with her existence but still hates Izzi. I don't get it. Lulu won't even go in my room or upstairs anymore because Izzi and MiMi spend most of their time there -_-. It's been two years. 

But getting another kitty isn't an option for you. So I second the "cat tree/furniture" suggestion. One thing that helped out  A LOT when I just had Lulu and Izzi was the "kitty cubes" by Sport Pet. Lulu would hide in there and Izzi wouldn't bother her. The best part? The kitty cubes only cost 3.88! They sell them at Walmart. They are out of stock online but they have a feature where you can find it in a  store near you if you're interested (or they probably sell them other places as well). Because of the big age difference I think the best thing you can do is buy some kind of place where the older kitty can get away. Also get your kitten a toy she can play with while you're not home (like the turbo scratcher!) and play with her a bunch so that she won't feel the need to chase your other cat. It'll take at least a year for your kitten to calm down and by then your older cat will be super sick of getting attacked all the time and resent your kitten no matter how calm she grows up to be (this is why Lulu still hates Izzi- she would attack her as a kitten, she grew up to be the calmest cat ever but Lulu still sees her as the evil attack kitten). 

 

[duckdodgers]

I was in the same situation as you. Lulu was 11 when I adopted Izzi who was 6 months old. Lulu hated her. She actually still hates her. I read every article on the internet about how to make them get along... nothing worked. Every article said "get another kitten!" which I couldn't... well, turns out another kitten came into my life when Izzi was almost 1. My boyfriend took in a 4 week old kitten and his parents told him that she couldn't stay there more than a couple months. My parents were set against it but eventually were okay with it. If I didn't bring home MiMi I'm sure that Lulu and Izzi would have ended up murdering each other. She's 9 months younger than Izzi but she created peace among the kitties. It's weird though, Lulu will play with her and is okay with her existence but still hates Izzi. I don't get it. Lulu won't even go in my room or upstairs anymore because Izzi and MiMi spend most of their time there -_-. It's been two years. 

But getting another kitty isn't an option for you. So I second the "cat tree/furniture" suggestion. One thing that helped out  A LOT when I just had Lulu and Izzi was the "kitty cubes" by Sport Pet. Lulu would hide in there and Izzi wouldn't bother her. The best part? The kitty cubes only cost 3.88! They sell them at Walmart. They are out of stock online but they have a feature where you can find it in a  store near you if you're interested (or they probably sell them other places as well). Because of the big age difference I think the best thing you can do is buy some kind of place where the older kitty can get away. Also get your kitten a toy she can play with while you're not home (like the turbo scratcher!) and play with her a bunch so that she won't feel the need to chase your other cat. It'll take at least a year for your kitten to calm down and by then your older cat will be super sick of getting attacked all the time and resent your kitten no matter how calm she grows up to be (this is why Lulu still hates Izzi- she would attack her as a kitten, she grew up to be the calmest cat ever but Lulu still sees her as the evil attack kitten). 

I went and bought a couple of kitty cubes yesterday.  Our one walmart was out of stock, but there were two available from the other one.  I got those and this hanging cat thing that goes on the back of the door.  My intention was for Alafair to think of them as places to hide so I put her up in the top of the door hanging with some catnip and she seemed fairly content.  I then let the little rascal out, and she went NUTS over the kitty cubes.  Attacking them, rolling around, flipping them over, etc.  She then turned her attention to the door hanging (where Alafair was still located) so Alafair got down.  Stella was super wound up at that point and jumped the very displeased Alafair, so I separated the two.  Alafair calmed down some and explored the kitty cubes a bit, but I'm not going to push the issue until she shows more interest in them. 

I'm hesitant to make any time-consuming or drastic modifications to the layout of the apartment (like installing kitty shelves or getting a giant cat tree) because I am going to be moving in early May.  A large and elaborate cat tree would be difficult to take with me, and any kitty modifications would probably be difficult to move and relocate. 

 

[tammyp]

Lol!  Yes, kittens and active cats will love those cubes.  It's great that they fold up too.  On that front, look for a tunnel (same fabric and wire is used so you'll see plenty of action and it folds away flat).

I'd still look for some options for high places for Alafair if s/he's a high loving cat.  And even if Alafair is not so interested...your kitten will expend loads of energy going up and down.  Until you can get a solid cat tree, how about some window perches? They just clip on the window sill so easy to transport.  The cat pole system using the ikea pole also looks very portable.  It's in the Jackson Galaxy site and you can do them fairly cheap if you make or know someone who can make the perches (I had a woodworking lesson with my Dad and made my first over Christmas).  If you have more money, here's another outfit who make them (http://www.franklincatfurniture.com/).  They also have some wonderful ledges to turn existing bookcases into cat friendly places.  Oh what the heck, these are all my links for stoleman pole systems!:

http://www.franklincatfurniture.com/PRICELIST_HFT.pdf

http://whiskerstudio.com/index.php/products/elevation-cat-trees

http://www.moderncat.net/2012/07/03...ting-the-revolving-door-for-olive-and-pepper/

Mulholland Franklin Hideaway can also be done cheap yourself: get an old concrete form (its the cardboard tube) and cover it yourself, or just give to cats as is and they will love it.

Have fun!

 

[catwhisperer1]

Mother cats will do the same thing as Alafair is doing, hiss and smack at their own kittens to discipline their kittens when the kittens behavior gets out of hand. Like most cat altercations, this can look much more dramatic to human onlookers than it actually is. Most of this disciplining occurs after a kitten is 7 to 8 weeks or older which is one reason why it's never a good idea to place or sell kittens under 8 weeks of age. Littermates also will hiss & smack each other when play gets too rough.  That is how a kitten learns to respect its mother, other adult cats, and its littermates & inhibit its biting and scratching and not get too rough  It sounds like Stella and Alafair have started turning this into a game & I bet Stella's play behavior is less rough and more inhibited as a result too. I also bet you haven't found a single scratch or bite injury on the kitten.

If the two cats really disliked each other, there's no way Alafair would hang out in her bed with the kitten anywhere near her.  A cat that's ill or in pain will naturally be more irritable & temperamental & you also might want to get Alafair vet checked to make sure she doesn't have medical problems & get any medical problems treated per your veterinarian's advice. 

To me it sounds like Alafair is doing a pretty good job at playing the role of mama cat trying to properly raise the youngster right.  And remember kittens & cats all spend most of their time sleeping.  Also remember that kittens grow up very fast.  I've also had a few cats who would "act out" in my presence but get along perfectly fine together when I wasn't watching. Also sometimes even the very best of feline friends occasionally can get into a rather noisy dramatic quarrel with hissing, spitting, yelling, even a bit of fur flying but when all is settled neither will be hurt except for maybe losing a few tufts of hair & then they will go right back to being best friends again.

 

[duckdodgers]

Mother cats will do the same thing as Alafair is doing, hiss and smack at their own kittens to discipline their kittens when the kittens behavior gets out of hand. Like most cat altercations, this can look much more dramatic to human onlookers than it actually is. Most of this disciplining occurs after a kitten is 7 to 8 weeks or older which is one reason why it's never a good idea to place or sell kittens under 8 weeks of age. Littermates also will hiss & smack each other when play gets too rough.  That is how a kitten learns to respect its mother, other adult cats, and its littermates & inhibit its biting and scratching and not get too rough  It sounds like Stella and Alafair have started turning this into a game & I bet Stella's play behavior is less rough and more inhibited as a result too. I also bet you haven't found a single scratch or bite injury on the kitten.

If the two cats really disliked each other, there's no way Alafair would hang out in her bed with the kitten anywhere near her.  A cat that's ill or in pain will naturally be more irritable & temperamental & you also might want to get Alafair vet checked to make sure she doesn't have medical problems & get any medical problems treated per your veterinarian's advice. 

To me it sounds like Alafair is doing a pretty good job at playing the role of mama cat trying to properly raise the youngster right.  And remember kittens & cats all spend most of their time sleeping.  Also remember that kittens grow up very fast.  I've also had a few cats who would "act out" in my presence but get along perfectly fine together when I wasn't watching. Also sometimes even the very best of feline friends occasionally can get into a rather noisy dramatic quarrel with hissing, spitting, yelling, even a bit of fur flying but when all is settled neither will be hurt except for maybe losing a few tufts of hair & then they will go right back to being best friends again.

The "Mommy Cat" idea is not one that I though about.  Alafair has only seen another cat a few times in her life, but I suppose that such interactions are instinctual and taught from a young age.  It certainly seems to mirror a mother cat's actions. 

Sometimes Alafair behaves in similar ways when she is playing with my parents' dog.  She will jump up on the furniture, slap him in the face, and then chase him.  The difference is that she never hisses or growls at him while doing this, but always does with Stella.  This makes me think that she takes it more seriously than Stella, who certainly seems to consider it a game.  You are correct, neither cat has had a bite or scratch mark on her, and this is why I am not overly concerned about their actions.  Stella does not  bite or scratch at Alafair, and while Alafair does not have front claws I don't think she would be attempting to damage with her scratching if she could.  Stella can get too rough with her "play biting" me, but we have been working on that.  It's another thing that I attribute to her being removed from her family at a young age, but I wouldn't feel right slapping her like Alafair does!

Alafair does have kidney issues, but they are currently being well managed/treated.  Shortly after I got Stella Alafair began to have weepy eyes, so we took a trip to the vet.  They examined her pretty thoroughly, gave us some meds that fixed the eye problem, and deemed her a relatively healthy old cat.  I kept the two completely separated until Stella had seen the vet, but it seems that she still picked up a cold or something from her. 

I do believe that they would not harm each other while I am away, but I keep them separated for a few reasons.  The first is to give Alafair some designated "alone time" to be a cat without a pesky kitten running about.  Second, Alafair has been free fed for her entire life (I know some disagree, but i'm not changing her ways now), and I am still keeping food down for Stella most of the time.  If I don't pick up the food or watch them closely they will eat each others' food.  Finally, I have a few small animals in cages that live in my living room.  I don't think Stella could get to and harm them, but I'm not willing to chance it! 

 

[drbobcat]

This is very good advice.  Cats often swat at each other and may appear aggressive, but they are just playing or asserting themselves a little.  Also, their relationship will change as the kitten grows up.  Providing the older cat with a safe place to go is the most important step.  BTW, Stella sounds like a really fun kitten!
 

 

[duckdodgers]

This is very good advice.  Cats often swat at each other and may appear aggressive, but they are just playing or asserting themselves a little.  Also, their relationship will change as the kitten grows up.  Providing the older cat with a safe place to go is the most important step.  BTW, Stella sounds like a really fun kitten!
 

I've started to leave the blinds open so that Alafair can jump up there to avoid Stella (windowsill is about the same height as couch arms), but that's about as far as Alafair wants to go.  Well, that and the kitchen table that they aren't allowed on!  I bought some more of the kitty cubes and put them near her bed, but Stella seems to invade those too.  The little twit doesn't much care for the door hanger at all either   Either way, I am providing her with more options.  Stella is gone overnight for her spay, so Alafair has been more willing to explore her little buddy's territory.  We'll see what happens when Stella returns, but I'll probably have to keep them separated for awhile to keep her quiet.

Stella is a fun kitty indeed.  She's really animated and loves to be in everybody's business.