Kidney Failure - Readings from Bloods help

[silent meowlook]

Hi. I am sorry, I didn't read the replies. I am sorry your cat isn't doing well again.
A Veterinary visit is definitely in order.
The Gabapentin is supposed to be used the night before and the day of the visit. in order to geta good level of the medication in his system before travel. It usually works well, but cats can develop a tolerance, sometimes another medication called Trazadone can be added to it if by itself it isn't effective. That you would have to talk to your vet about.

the downside to Gabapentin is that it-needs to be used in caution with cats with renal issues.

When putting him in the carrier have you tried backing him in? Sometimes that is easier.
Obviously fighting with him won’t help his stress levels or yours.

I am sure it’s been asked if you have a house all vet. Another thing I have seen in the past is asking if your vet had a tech that could come by and help you. This could also backfire if they are not knowledgeable in handling cats.

 

[Pudner1]

The most important thing now is to let him be where he feels safe and as comfortable as possible. Might the vet be able to help? Possibly, but you might want to ask what the vet would suggest doing and, based on whether or not that realistically could be done decide your next step. At this time, you want to measure his comfort against adding a few weeks or months to his life. This would not be a failing on your part.

The TNR group doesn't sound like people you want to deal with. If they aren't TNR ferals are they going after people's pets? If they are going after strays, they ought to be trying to place them in homes not releasing them back to fend for themselves.

Thanks very much for this Kflowers - I think they do try to place them in homes and do a huge amount of good work as in feeding the existing ferals - just totally unhelpful to me when I asked for help from them.

 

[Pudner1]

Is there anything specific that you did the last time when he perked up in late May? If so, repeat it. And, if you did, that might have also eradicated the metallic scent. But that could also have been a one-time fluke. Things like that happen.

Aside from that, it is not uncommon for cats with illnesses to have rebounds and relapses.

I forget - did you ever discuss with the vet about you giving him sub-Q fluids at home? That is assuming you could manage to do that with him? He probably could use to receive sub-Q fluids on a routine basis.

Hi FeebysOwner,

I asked about sub-q fluids but because he was feral I was told which is probably true that he would rip the tube out. Knowing the cat I think he would do that. I didn't do anything specific in late May -- unfortunately i've been onto the vet nurse - as you say it is not uncommon for remission to occur in kidney failure.

 

[Pudner1]

Hi. I am sorry, I didn't read the replies. I am sorry your cat isn't doing well again.
A Veterinary visit is definitely in order.
The Gabapentin is supposed to be used the night before and the day of the visit. in order to geta good level of the medication in his system before travel. It usually works well, but cats can develop a tolerance, sometimes another medication called Trazadone can be added to it if by itself it isn't effective. That you would have to talk to your vet about.

the downside to Gabapentin is that it-needs to be used in caution with cats with renal issues.

When putting him in the carrier have you tried backing him in? Sometimes that is easier.
Obviously fighting with him won’t help his stress levels or yours.

I am sure it’s been asked if you have a house all vet. Another thing I have seen in the past is asking if your vet had a tech that could come by and help you. This could also backfire if they are not knowledgeable in handling cats.

Thanks silentmeowlook,

All sedation apparently is an issue in cats with renal falure as far as I can see. No vets will make house calls i'm afraid nowadays - rang all of them - it's not done for small animals.

 

[Pudner1]

Honestly the best thing to feed a terminal cat is whatever they want. Tuna, salmon, icecream, chicken gibblets, kfc, whatever they like. It is more important that they eat anything and enjoy it rather than starve because they won't eat cat food.

yeh - trying that at the moment but the list of stuff he won't eat anymore ...well today he ate a slice of ham and a half a packet of sheba. He used to like rotisserie chicken a lot - now he won't eat that; won't eat fish either; won't even drink a full bowl of milk

 

[Pudner1]

Thanks very much indeed for all the people who took the trouble to reply to this thread.

Since I last posted (for some reason no notifications came to my mail); I noticed there was blood in his urine. I got antibiotics from the vet which he just finished. In the last five days he has eaten less and less - he was drinking around three or four bowls of milk (he would not take anything else before anyone says 'lactose').

For the past few days he is spending all day on a cushion in the sitting room - he stays there for 8 hours at a stretch. I know he is unhappy. He likes me to pet him. His breathing is laboured but he is not panting. I do not want his last moments to be ones of terror and he was a feral cat that was very hard to tame and he is genuinely terrified of the vets - he gets extremely distressed. I want his last time to be as peaceful as I can make but nor do I want him to suffer unnecessarily.

The veterinary nurse told me that I would know when it was time but I don't know. The last thing I want to do is take this cat's life away from him before his time. He is a very proud cat. It took me a long time for him to trust me, a long time. He doesn't trust anyone else. There are people staying here this week and he is extra unhappy with that - very fearful of other people - takes a long time to warm up to anyone. If a cat is capable of love I think this cat loves me. Likes to be near me - purrs when I am in the vicinity - very possessive if anyone else talks to me. This cat is probably one of the only genuinely functioning relationships I ever had in my life. I don't want to break the cat's trust in his last moments. Then I would have to live with the memory of doing that to the cat.

Ideally what I would like is for the cat to die in his sleep. Is that even a possibility with kidney disease? Of is it a prospect of convulsions blindness and severe weight loss and vomiting? if it got to that stage I probably would not be able to drug him anyway to get him into the vet as he would not be able to keep anything down. Could anyone shed any light on what is the best way to proceed for the cat?

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi, I don't know if this has been mentioned previously, but there are housecall vets, plus there are people who will come to the house when an animal is beyond the point where assistance from a vet would be of any help, to humanely euthanize.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Are you sure you can't find a way to give him sub-Q fluids? He may really need them, and they could help to some degree. Dehydration can cause labored breathing. Any chance you can talk to the about prescribing Buprenorphine, and if it would be appropriate for him? It is a pain med that might help to relax him a bit too. The amounts are so small, that it can easily be squirted into most any cat's mouth - it is not enough to swallow even and is just supposed to be absorbed into the tissue of the mouth.

There is no telling what might happen in his last days/minutes in life. I can share with you what is on Tanya's web site regarding nearing the end, if that might help you any (see link below).
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - The Final Hours (felinecrf.org)

 

[Kflowers]

I suggest that you tell your vet what you are thinking and ask him/her to discribe the last few hours of a cat's life with kidney failure. He may also be able to give you some strong pain medicine to give the cat if you guess wrong about the time to help him cross over so that you can stop most of the pain before you take him to the vet.

I say this because it is very hard to drive to the vet with a cat screaming in pain and I know there is better pain medicine now than there has been before.

 

[Pudner1]

Thanks very much Kflowers and Feebysowner,
I have read all the links now on Tanya's guide and will sleep on it. I will ring my vet tomorrow about Buprenorphine. I already asked a few times about the fluids - will try asking again. I do not want him to get to the stage of incontinence or seizures or blindness. It seems to be very unpredicatable on how the disease progresses from reading the last stories of cat owners with cats that had ckf. I will sleep on it now. Thanks very much for all the help. Thanks Furbalsmom - a visiting house vet would be a dream but it is a dream where I live unfortunately - doesn't happen.

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Pudner1 unfortunately I don't have any advice.

I wanted to say I am so sorry your little guy is doing do poorly. I'm glad he has you in his life. I'm glad he trusts you enough to let you give him pets and love. He is one lucky little guy to have you to try to comfort him and love him through this.

I wish I had some advice that I could give, I feel bad that I don't, but I truly have no knowledge about ckd in kitties..

Again I sincerely apologize your kitty is so sick. I can say just continue being there for him, continue to comfort and love him as you have been.

 

[IndyJones]

All cats react differently but my vet said crf is genneraly fairly painless in and of itself. It is some of the other stuff that goes along with aging that can be painful.

I did have a cat die at home without euthanasia and it was very peaceful. She just kind of slipped away in my arms.

If you are doubting at all then it isn't time. For me taking a life just feels a bit i cant even explain it..

Yes vets will say you will know when it is time partialy because they could lose their job over it. If an animal is euthanized without written consent they can be charged with malpractice or sued just like any other doctor.

 

[iPappy]

Thanks very much Kflowers and Feebysowner,
I have read all the links now on Tanya's guide and will sleep on it. I will ring my vet tomorrow about Buprenorphine. I already asked a few times about the fluids - will try asking again. I do not want him to get to the stage of incontinence or seizures or blindness. It seems to be very unpredicatable on how the disease progresses from reading the last stories of cat owners with cats that had ckf. I will sleep on it now. Thanks very much for all the help. Thanks Furbalsmom - a visiting house vet would be a dream but it is a dream where I live unfortunately - doesn't happen.

It would be perfectly within your rights IMO to tell the vet you want to try fluids at home to see if it helps or not and have them give you the things needed to do so. I would definitely stand firm on this, as FeebysOwner pointed out this could be dehydration. That alone makes you feel really lousy.
You also mentioned that if cats are capable of love, that he loves you, and I believe they are much more capable of such emotions than we realize.

 

[silent meowlook]

I am truly sorry for what both of you are going through.
In my experience, and not trying to be harsh, just realistic, they don’t just die in their sleep with kidney failure. It is a horrible downward spiral of starvation, dehydration and organ failure. The toxins that build up in the body due to the kidneys no longer functioning are bad. That is, without treatment.
There is a saying, better a day to soon, than a day to late.
If he was my cat and I had made the decision to let him sleep forever, I would discuss with the vet and ask for Gabapentin and figure a way to get it into him before the visit. I would also request to be present. Once at the vets I would ask that injectable anesthesia be given. There are injectable anesthetic agents that can be given in the muscle of the hind leg, that will completely anesthetize him and then they can administer the final injection without stress.

That is of course if I made the decision. If not, I would get pain medication like buprenex to give him and start doing sub Q fluids and any other treatments your vet recommends.
What country are you in?

 

[Kflowers]

There is one more thing to consider. Do you have an emergency vet that you can take him to if things go bad or will you be forced to wait for your vet's regular hours? Things could and often do go bad after hours on Friday night and you have to wait until Monday morning. That is a long time to wait in pain.

 

[Pudner1]

Hi to all you replied,

Silent Meowlook, unfortunately I have found out the hard way that everything in your post is coming true. I had hoped he would die in his sleep but he has not eaten or drunk anthing in over 55 hours and now cannot walk properly. The day before yesterday I got Gabagentin from the vet and this morning the nurse told me to try and inject it into the side of his mouth. I dissolved it into milk and put it into a syringe and tried to do that along with the syringe I got from the vet of Buprenomorphine that FeebysOwner recommended He slashed me twice and has now retreated under the dining room table and now won't let me near him. He is in the meet loaf position that is referred to on the site for kidney failure that Feebysowner referred me to. It should have been as you said 'a day too soon' then he would not have suffered as much as he is suffering now.

Crucially because he is feral I should have given him the full sedation in a bowl of milk a week ago and let him slip into unconsciousness at that stage. Then he would he not have the distress and pain he is going through now and I would not have had the distress of seeing him become fearful of me again. I cannot restate more strongly how awful his visits to the vet have been and how traumatised he was afterwards. One vet kept him in overnight having done dental work on him without giving him any food or water as he was feral and would slash and after he came home from that visit he was really traumatised as he had been left in a cage all night after the dental treatment with nil by mouth. And of course the first time he was sent to the vet he was neutered and as he was a highly intelligent cat he was extremely angry with me for months after that experience as was his right.

Unfortunately IndyJones, he is not dying peacefully as I would have wished and I would have liked to have your experience but kidney failure is not pretty and I know he is sick and in a lot of pain. I hate forcing medical treatment on anyone never mind a feral cat who hates the vet. That is why I held out to long. I was trying to respect his wishes. However for the last two days he was in the sitting room but last night he was in real distress and is jerking and twitching constantly and today it is worse. This morning he followed me into the kitchen for the first time in three days yowling in distress. It is appalling to be honest. I have been sitting with him for most of yesterday and last night. He is dragging his hind legs behind him as he can barely walk properly now. It is frightening loss of dignity for him.

iPappy and Feebysowner, I discussed the subcutaneous fluids again with my vet but he told me that it is illegal in my country for him to prescribe them to a pet owner for self administration. I am in a country in Europe. The vet gave me a sachets of rehydration material but the cat wouldn't eat or drink anything as of two and now a half days ago.

He was booked into for euthanasia today at 5pm but as it stands now he won't be sedated enough to be put into a carrier. I don't know what I will do - it will depend on the next few hours. I am posting this here now because I should have put him to sleep a week ago and sedated him enough that he would have experienced being put into cage and brought into the vets.

Hi KFlowers - I have sourced an emergency vet thanks - there are quite a few of them offering that service - just no one who will actually do an on call visit.

 

[Kflowers]

Take him to the ER as soon as you can get him in the carrier. This will only get worse, and it will become impossible to catch him and get him in the carrier.

 

[Kflowers]

All you can do is wear as much denim as you can. Put a denim jacket on in reverse, the buttons up the back and use rose handling gloves if you've got them. Wear something to protect your eyes, He may not recognize you when you grab him.

The safest way for both of you is to throw a bath towel over him and wrapping him in it and shoving the towel and kitty into the carrier. Do not unwrap him. You have no choice now but to use force. The towel will wrap his legs against his body so you won't bend them.

 

[silent meowlook]

Do you have a friend that can drive you?

 

[IndyJones]

I don't think using force is a good idea. At this point he is quite fragile and improper restraint will just cause him further stress and pain. Cats can bite and scratch through denim, speak from experience.

Im sorry but I really don't have an answer to this dificult situation.

if his back legs no longer work that sounds like saddle thrombus, a thrown blood clot. Unfortunatly, this is very painful and prognosis is not good. Heart diseases often go along with crf since the renal and cardoivascular systems work together.