Kibble and Teeth?

[rosiemac]

Thing is, cats don't really chew kibbles.... 

I know they don't chew like us, but my three do a marvellous job, especially Jack. If he was in a cinema crunching on his kibbles there would be a few unhappy people because of the noise he makes 

 

[bluebo]

I know they don't chew like us, but my three do a marvellous job, especially Jack. If he was in a cinema crunching on his kibbles there would be a few unhappy people because of the noise he makes  :lol3:

I would have to agree with this^^
My boy does chew his food pretty well! Most would say that he was simply "breaking the kibble into smaller pieces", in my book- that's chewing :lol3:

 

[otto]

It's not though.

In humans chewing is part of the digestion process because the food is ground down and mixed with saliva as we chew, then swallow. Cats don't have grinding teeth. Their very sharp pointed teeth are designed to tear the meat up into pieces small enough to swallow, that's all. The digestion starts in their tummy.

Shattered kibble is just that...shattered kibble. And it's really not good for their teeth, to have to break those hard as rock kibbles. And I can't imagine it is very good for their esophagus either, all that scraping as the kibble goes down, nothing to buffer it, shattered or not.

Think about it.

 

[bluebo]

It's not though.
In humans chewing is part of the digestion process because the food is ground down and mixed with saliva as we chew, then swallow. Cats don't have grinding teeth. Their very sharp pointed teeth are designed to tear the meat up into pieces small enough to swallow, that's all. The digestion starts in their tummy.
Shattered kibble is just that...shattered kibble. And it's really not good for their teeth, to have to break those hard as rock kibbles. And I can't imagine it is very good for their esophagus either, all that scraping as the kibble goes down, nothing to buffer it, shattered or not.
Think about it.

I just did a little test to prove/disprove your theory on kibble sticking to the teeth and wet not sticking to the teeth (it may have been yours or it may have been Carolina's)-
I fed my cat wet this morning at about 9am. I checked a few hours later and there were chunks of canned meat stuck on his teeth that I had to remove. I also gave him a bit of kibble (as a treat) after checking for the wet food and just now I checked if there were remnants of the dry food left. There was nothing.
I see what you are saying concerning cats not "chewing" kibble in the herbivorous/omnivorous sense of the word. The fact of the matter however is that they are smashing it with their teeth to break it up into smaller pieces. This (to me) is the definition of chewing, just chewing like a carnivore.
The actual definition of chewing is- to bite and grind with teeth: to masticate
The definition of mastication is- to chew
I would say my cat was certainly biting, grinding and masticating the kibble. Maybe he lacks amylase in his saliva but he DOES in fact have it in his pancreas- this fact is neither here nor there. The point is that he is in fact "chewing" by the exact definition of chewing/masticating.
I would say that any chicken/rabbit/duck/turkey bone would be much harder then a kibble that I can break with my thumb nail- this would also lead me to believe that it would possibly be harder on his esophagus.... I don't know where ya'll have gotten your kibble from lol. I think a cat's esophagus is a little tougher then we give it credit for, this is why they are able to consume bones.
The anecdotal evidence that I can provide is that the canned food DID in fact stick to his teeth and I believe is what is causing the god awful smell. I also noticed that his breath was NEVER bad when he was on kibble. It wasn't even remotely stinky!
I will have to weigh the pros and cons of periodontal disease (affecting the organs) and possible mild dehydration/kidney issues... I'm first going to buy the chicken gizzards and (even if I have to sear them slightly) hope that he will eat them.
My husbands like "just give him kibble already, he'll die when he dies, and we'll love him until then". I'm starting to agree with him.

 

[otto]

But that's just it. Cats don't chew. They do not grind.  Their teeth are not capable of grinding, look at your cats' teeth. Sharp points, for tearing, not flat grinding surfaces.. 

As I said earlier, dental health is largely genetic. The best thing you can do to ensure a healthy mouth is feed prey model raw, or brush their teeth. Canned doesn't “clean” teeth, but it is better for cats in every way. And at least you were able to scrape that chunk of wet food off. It would have washed down eventually, unlike the kibble. Kibble, if they crunch it at all, forms little tiny crumbs, crumbs that you will not see by looking in the mouth, that get between the teeth and under the gums. And stick.

If they swallow it whole...well then...there it sits, swelling, in their stomach. Absorbing all the moisture the cat needs for other functions in the body. Slowing down the whole digestive process. And, because of that, much of it, you know, isn't ever absorbed as nutrients, at all. It just passes through the intestines and comes out as poop.

My husbands like "just give him kibble already, he'll die when he dies, and we'll love him until then". I'm starting to agree with him.

It's not about longevity, at least not for me.  It's about quality of life.  Cats feel better when they eat better. I want my cats to feel as well as they possibly can.  And to me, that starts with feeding them, at the very least, a wet diet that will keep them hydrated.

Dehydration does not feel good. Cats and humans are different in many ways, but dehydration feels the same. They may feel tired, cranky, unable to focus, maybe even a little dizzy, no one, no living thing, can feel its best, when dehydrated.

I want my cats (and all cats, really) to not feel discomfort when they pee. Highly concentrated urine can cause a burning sensation. Again, human or cat, the same experience, if the urine is highly concentrated, it may burn when passing it.

I want them to have regular bowel movements. Normal cat sized sections of stool that pass easily, not large logs, that are completely foreign for the way a cat's system is designed.

So, starting at the basics, because I want my cats to feel as well as I can possibly help them feel: I choose to feed wet food. I then look for low carb, meat protein, avoiding certain ingredients that I have, from experience, seen bother one or more of my cats, and so on. What I feed has evolved much over the years (I now feed a partial prey model raw diet), but has been wet food since 1985. What I feed probably will continue to evolve as I learn more, and as more is learned about feline nutrition.

Anyway, I hope you stick with the canned. Remember, that any diet change requires adjustment. In time your cats will be used to eating canned food, and better at swallowing it all down. They haven't been on the new diet very long, after all.

I know what you went through getting them converted. But, with the breath issue, perhaps it's time to try other brands. Compare ingredients and try brands that don't have things that the current brand has. Look for low carb foods. (see the list Dr Pierson compiled at this website www.catinfo.org)

Stomach upset can cause bad breath too. So can the kibble pieces that are already stuck between the teeth. Maybe they need professional cleanings. If the bad breath continues, certainly a trip to the vet is in order.

 

[bluebo]

But that's just it. Cats don't chew. They do not grind.  Their teeth are not capable of grinding, look at your cats' teeth. Sharp points, for tearing, not flat grinding surfaces.. 
As I said earlier, dental health is largely genetic. The best thing you can do to ensure a healthy mouth is feed prey model raw, or brush their teeth. Canned doesn't “clean” teeth, but it is better for cats in every way. And at least you were able to scrape that chunk of wet food off. It would have washed down eventually, unlike the kibble. Kibble, if they crunch it at all, forms little tiny crumbs, crumbs that you will not see by looking in the mouth, that get between the teeth and under the gums. And stick.
If they swallow it whole...well then...there it sits, swelling, in their stomach. Absorbing all the moisture the cat needs for other functions in the body. Slowing down the whole digestive process. And, because of that, much of it, you know, isn't ever absorbed as nutrients, at all. It just passes through the intestines and comes out as poop.
It's not about longevity, at least not for me.  It's about quality of life.  Cats feel better when they eat better. I want my cats to feel as well as they possibly can.  And to me, that starts with feeding them, at the very least, a wet diet that will keep them hydrated.
Dehydration does not feel good. Cats and humans are different in many ways, but dehydration feels the same. They may feel tired, cranky, unable to focus, maybe even a little dizzy, no one, no living thing, can feel its best, when dehydrated.
I want my cats (and all cats, really) to not feel discomfort when they pee. Highly concentrated urine can cause a burning sensation. Again, human or cat, the same experience, if the urine is highly concentrated, it may burn when passing it.
I want them to have regular bowel movements. Normal cat sized sections of stool that pass easily, not large logs, that are completely foreign for the way a cat's system is designed.
So, starting at the basics, because I want my cats to feel as well as I can possibly help them feel: I choose to feed wet food. I then look for low carb, meat protein, avoiding certain ingredients that I have, from experience, seen bother one or more of my cats, and so on. What I feed has evolved much over the years (I now feed a partial prey model raw diet), but has been wet food since 1985. What I feed probably will continue to evolve as I learn more, and as more is learned about feline nutrition.
Anyway, I hope you stick with the canned. Remember, that any diet change requires adjustment. In time your cats will be used to eating canned food, and better at swallowing it all down. They haven't been on the new diet very long, after all.
I know what you went through getting them converted. But, with the breath issue, perhaps it's time to try other brands. Compare ingredients and try brands that don't have things that the current brand has. Look for low carb foods. (see the list Dr Pierson compiled at this website www.catinfo.org)
Stomach upset can cause bad breath too. So can the kibble pieces that are already stuck between the teeth. Maybe they need professional cleanings. If the bad breath continues, certainly a trip to the vet is in order.

We will have to agree to disagree concerning the semantics of "chewing".
I will keep him on canned food. Middle of the road between raw and kibble. My husband (and myself) draw the line at raw feeding.
The things about it is- since I started this gel on his teeth, he has white teeth with VERY little plaque and he has nice pink gums... I don't KNOW for sure if it is his teeth, they aren't that bad!
I am using Merrick (poultry flavours), Addiction (duck and rabbit flavours), Natures Variety Instinct (rabbit, lamb, beef, venison), Spot's Stew (chicken pate), Weruva (duck flavour) but only once in a while and I think there's more....
I'm not doing a professional cleaning at this point. I just did one.... maybe that is the cause of all of this...?

 

[otto]

I wonder if it's the dental gel causing the odor........what is it?

 

[bluebo]

I wonder if it's the dental gel causing the odor........what is it?

http://www.tropiclean.net/products/clean-teeth-gel.php
His stinky breath started before the dental... and before I started with the tropiclean

 

[otto]

Hmm...well I have to go back to wondering about a tummy upset. Perhaps one of those foods is causing some stomach issues. Do you use a probiotic? If not, perhaps that may do the trick.

My cats have always had sweet breath on canned food. I've fed several of the brands that are on your list, but not all.

 

[bluebo]

Hmm...well I have to go back to wondering about a tummy upset. Perhaps one of those foods is causing some stomach issues. Do you use a probiotic? If not, perhaps that may do the trick.
My cats have always had sweet breath on canned food. I've fed several of the brands that are on your list, but not all.

Well he has become used to me handling his mouth since I've been putting on his gel and I'm now able to brush his teeth (just a little bit), so I'll continue trying my best.
Ill also look into probiotics!
Thanks guys!