Jekyll and Hyde

[laroyal]

Hi,

We adopted a rescue tabby kitten (born in captivity, not on the street) who is now 7 months old, then around a month later acquired a three month old black and white kitten as a companion for her. Both are girls, and the little one isn't spayed yet. Both are super affectionate with people, but with each other, yikes!

It was way worse at first. I did slowly introduce them, switched blankets, etc.  The thing is, they get along pretty well most of the time, both sleeping with me on the bed, sometimes within inches, and sharing play with toys, but when the older one tries to gently approach the little one to groom, the little one growls at her. Granted when the older one really wants to play and chase (esp in the evening at what I call The Witching Hour), she's too rough and frightens the little one, which starts the negative cycle all over. On the other hand the little one gets special wet food four times a day, which, even though the older cat won't eat it, makes her feel jealous about all the attention the other one is getting.The older one doesn't like treats of any kind so I can't really influence her that way - she only eats her special dry food. So far no one got hurt, and the little one really holds her ground with lots of attitude, but I want them to like each other all day long. She has places to hide that are safe and both can go to their own rooms and spaces when they want to.

The tabby strikes me as a true feral - she reminds me of a luxurious raccoon. Her play is geared to 'hunt and kill' - she loves to grab toys and take them to a corner once she's caught them. The little black and white is a true domestic and just wants to play for fun. So their play styles are opposite!

I know they are young, so do I have hope they will learn to be together in harmony? I adore them both so I want it to work. We play with them a lot, with plenty of exercise.

Hints, anyone?

Coco-2s.jpg

• laroyal
• Jan 15, 2016

Cola

Mishu 2.jpg

• laroyal
• Jan 15, 2016

Mishu

 

[StefanZ]

Im trying to think.  You are doing   nicely. Re: The food and jelaousy.  Perhaps you could give them food at different places?  If not, begin always with the older, so she feels she is nr 1, and dont need to demonstrate this any extra.    Is she spayed, btw?  You hinted it, without saying it in clear.

Also, she seems to be a tortie/torbie, really.  The renown tortitude?

ah, one question more.  "Born in captivity", what does that means? - did she got a proper socialisation?  With other cat, with humans? Were there their mom and others litter-mates to play and be with?

Tuxedo-Blackie is perhaps somewhat younger than the said 12 weeks.

Anyways, Im sure it will be very OK with time.

@LaRoyal  

 

[catwoman707]

First of all let me say that these 2 are absolutely darling, just little dolls!

I see a few things here, but the biggest issue by far is they are both girls.

I will try not to jump all over the place here in explaining, as several points overlap and effect their behavior here.

While they are both young, the 7 month old is now in the process of leaving her childish kittenhood and maturing in to her being queen of the castle, which nearly all girls will aim for. She knows the baby is also a girl, so she is working on setting her up to be second place.

Okay I just decided rather than to explain this specific situation I will explain kittens in general and their play/progression, and development. I think maybe this will help you understand what the problems might be.

First off kittens learn to play and interact with other cats for the rest of their lives when they are very young. Starting at 3 1/2 weeks, it begins with playing tag, one will toddle over to a sibling, touch them with their paw, and toddle away, then look back for a reaction.

Week to week it progresses, next is gentle wrestling, the underdog will cry out and signal the top dog to let up. They will stop, separate, then go at it again, over and over.

By week 9 this has progressed in to rowdy play, racing around, chasing, and roughhousing. But they now have established the right way to play, what is too rough, etc.

Anytime a kitten is not with siblings, they don't learn this correctly, and it stays. Can somewhat be fixed later but not as good as learning from the start.

When I see a cat or teenager who plays very rough with no limits, I assume they did not have sibs to learn with.

So there's that, then we look at the male vs female issue.

Girls dominate boys, this is instinctual for both, if the baby is a boy kitten, he would clearly surrender to her, showing his tummy as he is submitting to her, once she feels confident that there is no threat, she will lighten up and they can become friends.

If kitten is a girl, it's another story.

Although your baby has no clue what she wants since she is not anywhere close to sexual maturity, which is the term for the change that happens at the 7 month olds age. Your girl is rough, but she is also feeling the nurturing ways too now.

She wants to dominate the baby because she is in fact a girl, and sees the 'special' treatment she gets too. 

It's important that you give her extra special something at the same time. It's not forever, just for a while until she knows she is not being replaced.

Be sure never to scold her for rough playing, or baby the little one and ignore her if she is too rough.

It offends her and she will feel a bit resentful towards the little one.

Make sure the baby is spayed asap. The last thing you need to add is for her to start getting to 'the age' too, and be intact.

You have a feisty baby who very well may go for the older one's position, and there can't be 2 queens in one castle. 

I have 2 girls, now both seniors, who both have that top cat mentality, and neither one would back down, it took literally years for them to coexist together okay, but they are not friends, they simply tolerate each other.

I can see by the pics that the tabby, which looks like actually a torbie (tabby and tortie) who are more attitudey then the tuxedo females, so in the end, my prediction will be that your older girl will remain the top cat regardless of the will that the baby might have to be.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[laroyal]

Hi Catwoman,

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis. It makes a lot of sense. I get it about Cola, the older one - I didn't know about torbies being so wild and dominant but it fits. Cola was raised with siblings and a bunch of other cats and people until she was four months and spayed. But then she came here and was the ONLY ONE for 6 weeks. She bonded with me almost exclusively. She likes other people, kids, and my husband but I AM THE ONE she loves.

Mishu, the little one, was raised with other cats too and is well socialized. She loves everyone, including my husband, so he appreciates it.

Cola eats any time she wants from a full dish, so it doesn't work to feed her first. I tried refilling her dish and giving her little treats from the kitten's food when I feed the kitten, but she won't buy it... she wants the exact food the kitten is eating from the very same dish. This cat is so smart. When I pay attention to the kitten, she goes off and jumps on the kitchen counter, forbidden territory, then jumps off to make sure I know she's done it.

Now I ask you, we have the option to return the little one to her former owners, as they love her too and want her to have a good home. She is a super little gal, so loving to everyone. We've had her two weeks now and it would break my heart but I want what's best for her, not me. I can't imagine 15 years of two cats just tolerating each other in our small home. Would this be hell for a cat or do they just get used to it? They are not allowed outdoors, so they will be together all the time.

Also, I wonder, how happy can a cat be, being the only animal in the house? When we go on holiday, admittedly rarely, Cola will be alone most of the time. The whole point of getting another cat was to make sure she'd have company.

  Lorraine

ps I came in yesterday at lunch after being away about an hour and a half, and Mishu was limping badly. I took her straight to the vet but she didn't find anything, no broken bones, no punctures or scratches, so I assume it's a leap from a high place, maybe a bruise - but I worry.

 

[laroyal]

Thank you, Stephan Z. I didn't know torbies had more attitude but it makes perfect sense. They were both socialized from early on but the older one was here with us by herself for 6 weeks, so she had time to become really established. Also, she had all the attention.

 

[catwoman707]

 
Hi Catwoman,

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis. It makes a lot of sense. I get it about Cola, the older one - I didn't know about torbies being so wild and dominant but it fits. Cola was raised with siblings and a bunch of other cats and people until she was four months and spayed. But then she came here and was the ONLY ONE for 6 weeks. She bonded with me almost exclusively. She likes other people, kids, and my husband but I AM THE ONE she loves.

Mishu, the little one, was raised with other cats too and is well socialized. She loves everyone, including my husband, so he appreciates it.

Cola eats any time she wants from a full dish, so it doesn't work to feed her first. I tried refilling her dish and giving her little treats from the kitten's food when I feed the kitten, but she won't buy it... she wants the exact food the kitten is eating from the very same dish. This cat is so smart. When I pay attention to the kitten, she goes off and jumps on the kitchen counter, forbidden territory, then jumps off to make sure I know she's done it.

Now I ask you, we have the option to return the little one to her former owners, as they love her too and want her to have a good home. She is a super little gal, so loving to everyone. We've had her two weeks now and it would break my heart but I want what's best for her, not me. I can't imagine 15 years of two cats just tolerating each other in our small home. Would this be hell for a cat or do they just get used to it? They are not allowed outdoors, so they will be together all the time.

Also, I wonder, how happy can a cat be, being the only animal in the house? When we go on holiday, admittedly rarely, Cola will be alone most of the time. The whole point of getting another cat was to make sure she'd have company.

  Lorraine

ps I came in yesterday at lunch after being away about an hour and a half, and Mishu was limping badly. I took her straight to the vet but she didn't find anything, no broken bones, no punctures or scratches, so I assume it's a leap from a high place, maybe a bruise - but I worry.

I do think it's good for her to have a companion, if I was asked before you got the 2nd cat what to get I would have said a young male, or teenaged.

So the rest is your decision whether to switch her out for another cat or not.

You do want them to be able to be friends, but honestly, it's not all that common for 2 females to actually be buddy type friends and groom each other, and sleep together, etc unless it is from kittenhood siblings.

The limping may be from anything, or not. Not that she did it but might have put the baby in a situation that caused her to jump or do something she usually wouldn't have.

Limps heal fast, just so you don't worry.

Super fast in kittens, like a day

 

[talkingpeanut]

Iquote name="LaRoyal" url="/t/312637/jekyll-and-hyde#post_3913444"]Hi Catwoman,

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis. It makes a lot of sense. I get it about Cola, the older one - I didn't know about torbies being so wild and dominant but it fits. Cola was raised with siblings and a bunch of other cats and people until she was four months and spayed. But then she came here and was the ONLY ONE for 6 weeks. She bonded with me almost exclusively. She likes other people, kids, and my husband but I AM THE ONE she loves.

Mishu, the little one, was raised with other cats too and is well socialized. She loves everyone, including my husband, so he appreciates it.

Cola eats any time she wants from a full dish, so it doesn't work to feed her first. I tried refilling her dish and giving her little treats from the kitten's food when I feed the kitten, but she won't buy it... she wants the exact food the kitten is eating from the very same dish. This cat is so smart. When I pay attention to the kitten, she goes off and jumps on the kitchen counter, forbidden territory, then jumps off to make sure I know she's done it.

Now I ask you, we have the option to return the little one to her former owners, as they love her too and want her to have a good home. She is a super little gal, so loving to everyone. We've had her two weeks now and it would break my heart but I want what's best for her, not me. I can't imagine 15 years of two cats just tolerating each other in our small home. Would this be hell for a cat or do they just get used to it? They are not allowed outdoors, so they will be together all the time.

Also, I wonder, how happy can a cat be, being the only animal in the house? When we go on holiday, admittedly rarely, Cola will be alone most of the time. The whole point of getting another cat was to make sure she'd have company.

  Lorraine

ps I came in yesterday at lunch after being away about an hour and a half, and Mishu was limping badly. I took her straight to the vet but she didn't find anything, no broken bones, no punctures or scratches, so I assume it's a leap from a high place, maybe a bruise - but I worry.
[/quote]

Is there any way you could switch from free feeding the older one for some time? That way she would be hungry and you could feed her with the little one. It would also help if you fed her first, and maybe someone else could feed the little one?

 

[laroyal]

Thanks so much for the great input. It was very helpful!

Mishu is better after laying low all day yesterday.

I am now feeding Cola a little tiny bit of kitten food when I feed Mishu and this has helped a lot. I give Cola hers first, and make a big show of keeping the kitten from helping herself. Cola doesn't like this food but she tries to choke it down anyway, haha. Now there is no more big kerfuffle at feeding time. Cats!

We don't want to switch her out, it's too hard to start over again - so I guess we will keep trying and will be patient.

Thanks again!

 

[talkingpeanut]

That's great! I think you're seeing lots of signs that prove that they're going to be fine. Keep us posted!