Jaundice Question!

[mikameek]

So, with all of the gallbladder and liver issues Mika was experiencing she jaundiced. Her bilirubin levels were through the roof at times (12) but they're definitely trending downward. Her yellowing as started to fade some making me think that her bilirubin levels are still dropping (her next vet appointment is for the beginning of July to check her levels and blood work). The vet mentioned that sometimes it takes a long time for the yellowing to go away (which I wasn't sure if he meant after the bilirubin drops below 2 or it takes a long time for the bilirubin to drop below 2) and that it can sometimes "stain" the skin.

Anyone with experience in a jaundiced cat and how long it took for them to come out of it? Mika use to be yellow basically all over but now it's concentrated to her ears, above her eyes and a patch on her belly (all her nipples are yellow still too).

Before when levels were at 12

Right now (yellow of the belly not well shown because of lighting but if you squint you can kind of see it )

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! Has the vet talked with you about ways to support the liver? I'm not suggesting it in this case (I'm not a vet) but milk thistle is a supplement for the liver.
As you probably know, the liver is able to repair itself - hopefully they will figure out how to get things squared away for your baby!!
Also, are you filtering the water?
Can you try and avoid foods with menadione (Vitamin K3)?
Best of luck to you!!

 

[mikameek]

Hi! Has the vet talked with you about ways to support the liver? I'm not suggesting it in this case (I'm not a vet) but milk thistle is a supplement for the liver.
As you probably know, the liver is able to repair itself - hopefully they will figure out how to get things squared away for your baby!!
Also, are you filtering the water?
Can you try and avoid foods with menadione (Vitamin K3)?
Best of luck to you!!

She was on a liver protectant for a really long time (we got a 30 day supply of pills and she had all but 4 of them) and my vet felt that because her values were close to normal that it was safe to take her off of it. Her liver values have kind of roller coastered but my vet told me at our last appointment (I was really upset they went up) that she hasn't had any major spikes.

He told me that he thinks her liver values went up slightly because she still had (has? I need to call him again because she just finished her antibiotic for it but is still showing symptoms) a UTI. He's confident that as long as she keeps eating her full recommended amount of daily calories, her liver will sort everything else out.

I haven't been giving her filtered water! Should I be? We have a filtered water pitcher we use, but I've just been giving it to her out of the tap. She's also been trying to get in the toilets again (did that before she got sick).

What does the Vitamin K3 do? I'll check her foods and see if they have any of that in it! Thank you for all your help!

 

[duckpond]

I also have read that milk thistle is good for the liver, may want to check with your vet about that.

I also like filtered water. I dont think chlorine is good for cats, or anyone. I always give our cats filtered refrigerator water

Hopefully she will just continue to get better and better!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
As duckpond says, having filtered water helps remove contaminants, chlorine and other unwanted things that the municipal water treatment plant doesn't take out. I know @abyeb doesn't like the pitcher style, and I'll have to admit I like the faucet-end style since that gives me easy-access water for making hummingbird sugar water , coffee, cooking water... (if by chance you're near a Costco, they have less expensive filters for the Pur).

The less work that the liver (and kidneys) have to do, the better in my opinion.

What does the Vitamin K3 do?

Vitamin K is necessary for blood clotting. Vitamin K3 is a synthetic form, also called Menadione sodium bisulfate, and cheaper to make compared to sourcing and harvesting other natural forms.

Menadione has a Material Safety Data Sheet which specifically states that with long term use, it will cause liver and other organ damage.

The AAFCO considers it Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) after research determined it caused no harm in poultry--the problem here in my mind is that poultry don't live as long as cats and dogs, but I digress. Menadione initially was only added to foods with fish but if I'm not mistaken I'm seeing it in other foods as well.

The other 'problem' on the flip side, if you will, is that the MSDS doesn't indicate time or quantity.

With all that said, when my Big Guys liver numbers came back elevated a couple years ago and I got zero information or guidance from my vet, I ploughed through a bunch of research and decided I was probably causing the trouble because at that time and for some years previous every single food he was getting, day after day, had menadione in it. (--I love saying this and so my apologies if I'm repeating myself here, but I thank everything there is that the liver is able to repair itself and heal ).

I was able to make some big changes, with the thought that a rotational menu hopefully gives all of his digestive system the opportunities required in order to deal with things including other questionable ingredients/additives.

Keep in mind, however, he's a cat . He WOULD NOT allow me to eliminate his Fancy Feast.

If you decide to try and avoid menadione, you will want to look in the ingredient list, usually towards the end of the list, for 'menadione', or 'sodium bisulfate', or it might be (vitamin K3) in parenthesis...menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfate, menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfite or menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite.

Some of the Tiki Cat varieties don't have it, Merrick BackCountry doesn't have it, nor do Luvsome, Koha, Nutro or Natural Balance, et al (but again, check every variety).

 

[mikameek]

Hi!
As duckpond says, having filtered water helps remove contaminants, chlorine and other unwanted things that the municipal water treatment plant doesn't take out. I know @abyeb doesn't like the pitcher style, and I'll have to admit I like the faucet-end style since that gives me easy-access water for making hummingbird sugar water , coffee, cooking water... (if by chance you're near a Costco, they have less expensive filters for the Pur).

The less work that the liver (and kidneys) have to do, the better in my opinion.


Vitamin K is necessary for blood clotting. Vitamin K3 is a synthetic form, also called Menadione sodium bisulfate, and cheaper to make compared to sourcing and harvesting other natural forms.

Menadione has a Material Safety Data Sheet which specifically states that with long term use, it will cause liver and other organ damage.

The AAFCO considers it Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) after research determined it caused no harm in poultry--the problem here in my mind is that poultry don't live as long as cats and dogs, but I digress. Menadione initially was only added to foods with fish but if I'm not mistaken I'm seeing it in other foods as well.

The other 'problem' on the flip side, if you will, is that the MSDS doesn't indicate time or quantity.

With all that said, when my Big Guys liver numbers came back elevated a couple years ago and I got zero information or guidance from my vet, I ploughed through a bunch of research and decided I was probably causing the trouble because at that time and for some years previous every single food he was getting, day after day, had menadione in it. (--I love saying this and so my apologies if I'm repeating myself here, but I thank everything there is that the liver is able to repair itself and heal ).

I was able to make some big changes, with the thought that a rotational menu hopefully gives all of his digestive system the opportunities required in order to deal with things including other questionable ingredients/additives.

Keep in mind, however, he's a cat . He WOULD NOT allow me to eliminate his Fancy Feast.

If you decide to try and avoid menadione, you will want to look in the ingredient list, usually towards the end of the list, for 'menadione', or 'sodium bisulfate', or it might be (vitamin K3) in parenthesis...menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfate, menadione dimethylprimidinol sulfite or menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite.

Some of the Tiki Cat varieties don't have it, Merrick BackCountry doesn't have it, nor do Luvsome, Koha, Nutro or Natural Balance, et al (but again, check every variety).

Well, I am a mess.

The TikiCat that I have her on (TikiCat Mousse) which she has finally gotten into eating her full calories worth in has in very plain English "Vitamin K3 Supplement" as the last ingredient in all their pouches.

I guess I'll be going back to the drawing board to find her a brand of food that is soft enough for her to eat!

 

[Furballsmom]

Don't give up - sometimes it comes down to making sure the cat will eat, as opposed to getting the cat to eat something we know is better for them. Also, pouch foods, as you've probably discovered, have more gravy which can work....Hang in there!!
Oh, duckpond , what's the brand of that food you've commented on just lately that's super soft?

 

[duckpond]

Caru maybe? it is like cream of soup with some very fine ground up meat in cream of soup. Dont be put off by the cartons, i have decided i like them! Easy to pour some out then close and put in the fridge. my guy wont eat cold food, the carton is heavy enough to sit in a bowl of hot water to warm up a bit, and he is good with it. I am waiting on the chicken to be in stock with chewy, i got the turkey and salmon. My fish guy likes it a lot, my fish girl hates turkey so she wont eat it. Two others hate anything fishy, so they wont eat it... lol ok by my one guy he eats it all

if it is what they say it is it seems very good quality.

Classic Chicken Stew for Cats - Caru - All Natural Stew for Cats

Caru / Wet Food / Food / Cat - Free shipping at Chewy.com

 

[Furballsmom]

yes, that was it

 

[mikameek]

yes, that was it

I've done a lot of digging and looking into brands that don't have K3 in it. I found a brand called Nulo that is super high in protein and doesn't have any K3 in it at all. They don't have any pouches/mousse type foods but it doesn't hurt to try.

I haven't looked into the other brands you mentioned yet either to see if Mika will eat them. I'm thinking I need to find more salmon flavored stuff because thats what she seems to be going for.

 

[silkenpaw]

I have no comments on treatment but on the initial question you asked. The first place you see jaundice in people is the whites of the eyes and the color does not linger when the blood bilirubin goes down. I imagine it’s the same with cats. Please correct me, anyone, if that’s not right. So, if you just move the eyelid a bit to expose the white of Mika’s eye, you should get a decent idea of where her bilirubin is.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

I've done a lot of digging and looking into brands that don't have K3 in it. I found a brand called Nulo that is super high in protein and doesn't have any K3 in it at all. They don't have any pouches/mousse type foods but it doesn't hurt to try.

I haven't looked into the other brands you mentioned yet either to see if Mika will eat them. I'm thinking I need to find more salmon flavored stuff because thats what she seems to be going for.

mikameek - does Mika prefer eating soft, goopy foods?

My kitty Milly has settled on two of Nulo's foods that she'll "allow" me to include within her rotation of foods: Nulo Freestyle Shredded Turkey & Halibut, and the shredded Beef & Trout.

You could run foods like that through a food processor to make them goopy and runny for Mika (add a bit of H2O).

I'm going to put Milly through 2-3 weeks of not giving her any fish-related foods as an experiment, though. If you are ever doing the same, the Nulo Freestyle minced Turkey & Duck doesn't have fish in its ingredients, if you still want to try a Nulo type.