Is This Sexual Aggression In A Neutered Male Or Just Playing?

Mghjuno

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Hi, this is my first post but I’ve searched the site & found a few threads on sexual aggression in neutered males but I’m not even sure that’s what this is.

We have 6 cats, all neutered males, 5 have lived together happily for years with the occasional playtime taken too far kind of fuss. Last week we introduced cat #6, a 3 year old Siamese mix male. The shelter said he was previously neutered so idk how long ago that was. Honestly I’d guess could be anywhere from 2 months to 2.5 years ago. He was very calm at the shelter and was doing great in their adult cat room getting along with the others.

He’s overall extremely calm at home too, and I will say up front we do introductions absolutely wrong. We separate them very little and let them get to know each other at their own pace. Our house is only 1400 sf but they do seem to have plenty of room to be apart when necessary, they have plenty of vertical spaces, food and water are scattered around the house and we have 4 litter boxes for 6 cats. I work from home & spot clean them multiple times a day plus 2 big cleans. There’s been a little marking in the house but not too bad & definitely not unusual for the first week of bringing a new cat home.

Everyone is eating, drinking, laying near each other for naps, some playing and plenty of asking for pets, etc. The only real problem arises when the new cat seems to get it in his head that he needs to bite the neck and try to hump one specific other cat. His victim is the dominant one I’d say and at first I assumed it was just a little challenge from the new guy to establish pecking order. But it’s WEIRD. Being Siamese he’s very vocal and I can tell from anywhere in the house that he’s in one of his moods bc of his very specific “trill” kind of musical chirping. His eyes are always dialated and then he pounces, tries to hump while biting the neck and his victim fights back. Twice I’ve squirted small puffs of spray from a water bottle at him when he sinks his teeth in the others neck & he absolutely respects that & stops, while not seeming to hold a grudge against me at all. It’s almost like he snaps out of a trance. Even with this occasional behavior everyone is incredibly well adjusted and calm I think but I don’t want his preferred victim stressed out.

So my basic question is, does this sound like sexual aggression and if so what’s the best way to put a stop to it? I’ve got Sentry collars on him and 2 other cats but not the victim cat bc he’s usually not one to pick fights. Should I get another 3 pack & put them on ever6 cat just to be safe? I’ve got 1 feliway diffuser going all the time, and I have another that drips a lot so I’m reluctant to use it but I could always buy another new one.

Should I be worried he’s a cryptorchid and have my vet do an ultrasound or whatever they do if they think he might have testicle tissue inside? I can’t help wondering... but then again maybe this behavior is common among males when they’re getting to know each other?
 

di and bob

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'Fighting' or whatever it is your cat is doing :) is almost always trying to establish territory and pecking order. I don't think it is sexual, but domineering. The nondominant cat will eventually fight back or not be a victim anymore, but I know it is a hard thing to watch. One thing I thought of is you might go to a farm supply store like Orschelns or Tractor Supply and get an anti itch spray that has a bitter taste in it to discourage licking and biting. If your newcomer gets a mouthful of that when he bites the neck he won't like it and the other cat will never know because it is on the back of his neck and he can't reach it. I accidently had some on my fingers from spraying it and it is terrible! Just make sure it is for cats. You might put a Sentry collar on him too, to block his neck a little.
Cats that are used to being around other cats and strangers are not necessarily inclined to be difficult to introduce, so I think your introduction is going extremely well for only a week. As you know with multiple cats, there will always be the occasional, perfectly normal, hissing, swatting, yowling and tussles, but these will lessen over time. I have had a lot of Siamese and Siamese mixes, so I know what a aggressive, vocal, domineering personality they can have. But they are also very charming, make great companions and are the most energetic and talkative cats I know! It will all calme down in time, but I agree with you, I wouldn't want the poor resident cat all stressed out. By all means have the vet check him out, an exam might do it, but you might want to stop teh water spraying on a new cat, physical punishment doesn't work on cats it just makes them afraid and sneaky. Yell NO firmly and remove him to a small room for just a few minutes, longer and he will forget what for, grab him by teh skin on teh nback of his neck and pin him to teh ground saying NO firmly. Everytime. That is what mamas do, and they understand that punishment. I really think this will just be worked out and things will settle down in time. Bless you for taking in one more, it will be an adventure!
 

Mamanyt1953

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Since the new guy only goes for one specific cat, and the dominant one, at that, this is almost certainly dominance posturing. And you'll have to deal with a certain amount of that until they work it out. However, read di and bob di and bob 's twice, and then once more! The tips for helping things settle down are GREAT!
 

jen

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Should I be worried he’s a cryptorchid and have my vet do an ultrasound or whatever they do if they think he might have testicle tissue inside?
Well, if they neutered him and found him to be a cryptorchid, I would HOPE they went in and removed the un-descended testicle, no? That would be ridiculously irresponsible if they hadn't. Can you find out?
 
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Mghjuno

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Thanks for the replies, and this is turning into quite an interesting adoption. First, I've got an appointment with the vet this afternoon to check him out in general and specifically to have a look at his privates because we are really thinking he wasn't properly neutered. And, I have an appointment Tuesday next week if my regular vet says I need it to bring him to the shelter clinic so they can properly neuter him.

This has been so strange - after a couple of days the feliway and sentry collars really were working. The whole herd (pride?) in the house was as calm as could be, with only 1 or 2 more very small incidents of arguing among them. Most of the time he has been playing with them or sleeping with them, eating alongside them, etc etc. So I decided to try taking the sentry collar off him which was a big mistake but I guess also lucky if it turns out he really is a cryptorchid and the collar was masking his hormones. This morning he did his trill-like chirp and tried to mount our smallest cat who was in my lap at the time, I scruffed him and told him no, after a few seconds he hopped off - and then I realized he had ejaculated on my shirt! :cringe: It was definitely that, not pee or whatever.

So... yeah. Everyone I spoke to at my vet and the shelter said they had never heard of that happening with a properly neutered cat. If anyone has any experience with this (I sure hope not though) I'd love to hear what the verdict was. I guess it's possible there was no sperm but even so, they all sounded like that wasn't supposed to be possible unless he was JUST neutered within a very short amount of time and that isn't the case. At this point I hope it's a matter of properly neutering him which will solve this behavior, but also I'm a little worried from reading about how hard it can be to find the testicular tissue.

As of right now he's wearing the sentry collar again and is snuggling with our biggest cat. It's a little bizarre.
 

Weeze1219

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My 2 male neutered cats do this as well - 1 will suddenly mount the other with a mouth-grip to the neck. The one mounted just holds still and nothing happens until the mounted one shoves them off (could take a while).

One does it right after making "biscuits" on me - he'll jump off and then mount his bro-from-another-mo.
 

Weeze1219

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Forgot to mention . . . the cat who does the mounting doesn't move either - no humping, just holds still like he forgot why he was mounting in the first place. ;)
 

Mamanyt1953

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Oh, that's too funny! And in some cases, all too human, as well! It sounds more and more like an incomplete neuter, which does happen, although it is rare. It's more common in females, that a bit of ovarian tissue is left, causing havoc.

Another possibility is that this new guy was neutered AFTER he reached full sexual maturity. Male cats can, and do, perform after neutering if the habit is already established. They don't make the mental connection between their...erm...bits and their ability that most human men do, and go on their merry way, mating without kittens (although they aren't disposed to fight over the matter anymore). In the absence of a female in the house, he may just be taking an "any port in a storm" position, then thinking, "Wait, something is fundamentally wrong with this scenario!"
 

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Well, if they neutered him and found him to be a cryptorchid, I would HOPE they went in and removed the un-descended testicle, no? That would be ridiculously irresponsible if they hadn't. Can you find out?
I do know of a unilateral cryptorchid that during his neuter the vet did to an exporitory abdominal Sx and could not locate the teste. From a viablility perspective the cat should be sterile due to the temperature of the abdomen "cooking" the sperm, however I know that from a hormonal and behavioural perspective the cat would still act like a tom
 
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Mghjuno

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Back from the vet, and he is a little bit perplexed. His gut feeling is that he has been properly neutered, but he agrees it’s very suspicious and unusual that he’d ejaculate and noticed he has strong smelling Tom-like urine and he’s doing a culture to check for a UTI. His anatomy looks like it was completely normal and developed as it should have because his scrotum is present but empty. On the other hand as weird as it is it’s possible he could look normal on the outside but could have not completely descended. As HPeters said, if he has tissue inside any sperm would be DOA but he could be producing hormones. Oh and apparently the adrenal gland can sometimes produce testosterone so even if his blood showed high T levels it wouldn’t necessarily mean that he’s got retained tissue.

Bottom line is this is probably all behavioral but is strange enough to not rule out anything. His recommendation is to wait a month and in the meantime make sure he wears the sentry collar and the feliway stays plugged in, and see how it goes as he gets used to his new living arrangements before doing anything.

I obviously don’t want to have to put him through surgery so cross your paws for us that everything remains calm in our house!
 

catspaw66

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Thanks for the replies, and this is turning into quite an interesting adoption. First, I've got an appointment with the vet this afternoon to check him out in general and specifically to have a look at his privates because we are really thinking he wasn't properly neutered. And, I have an appointment Tuesday next week if my regular vet says I need it to bring him to the shelter clinic so they can properly neuter him.

This has been so strange - after a couple of days the feliway and sentry collars really were working. The whole herd (pride?) in the house was as calm as could be, with only 1 or 2 more very small incidents of arguing among them. Most of the time he has been playing with them or sleeping with them, eating alongside them, etc etc. So I decided to try taking the sentry collar off him which was a big mistake but I guess also lucky if it turns out he really is a cryptorchid and the collar was masking his hormones. This morning he did his trill-like chirp and tried to mount our smallest cat who was in my lap at the time, I scruffed him and told him no, after a few seconds he hopped off - and then I realized he had ejaculated on my shirt! :cringe: It was definitely that, not pee or whatever.

So... yeah. Everyone I spoke to at my vet and the shelter said they had never heard of that happening with a properly neutered cat. If anyone has any experience with this (I sure hope not though) I'd love to hear what the verdict was. I guess it's possible there was no sperm but even so, they all sounded like that wasn't supposed to be possible unless he was JUST neutered within a very short amount of time and that isn't the case. At this point I hope it's a matter of properly neutering him which will solve this behavior, but also I'm a little worried from reading about how hard it can be to find the testicular tissue.

As of right now he's wearing the sentry collar again and is snuggling with our biggest cat. It's a little bizarre.
The term for a group of cats is "clowder". And include yourself as the alpha in the term.
 

Mamanyt1953

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My favorite term for a group of cats is "a glaring" of cats. Been on the wrong end of that a few times.
 

epona

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I agree with others - that mounting thing that you see one cat doing to the other - it is not sexual and has nothing to do with that - it is a dominance display, and is normal in multicat households to see this sort of thing.

Also petty arguments about who's spot this is are commonplace, basically if it is just a bit of slapping and whining and there is no blood then just leave them to it - if they get on well most of the time then view it the same as you would 2 kids arguing in the back of a car about who was taking up more space "no, you were on my side, MUM, he was on my side, tell him" type thing.

Sonic and Jakey are inseparable, they curl up together every time they sleep, they eat together and wander around together and play together - and around 10% of the time they are awake there is some non-violent bickering going on about who owns the sofa, that sort of thing - it is normal, and as long as there isn't screaming or fur being pulled out (in which case yes it is a proper fight), the occasional grumble between them is best left up to them to sort out.

Something to look out for in terms of things going awry would be if one cat was hiding all the time while the other was strutting about, that is a more passive thing than a physical fight, but if that happens then you know there has been a psychological battle of wits which one cat won and the other lost - that is as much cause for concern. A little mild bickering is preferable!
 
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