Is this a good raw diet?

[nullentropy]

I've been giving my cats Nature's Variety Instinct Raw and they seem to really like it. However, someone on another forum told me that some of these ingredients are Toxic!! Here are the ingredients:
Chicken (including Ground Chicken Bone), Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Mixed Tocopherols, Olive Oil, Rosemary Extract, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove

Beef, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Ground Beef Bone, Beef Kidney, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Montmorillonite Clay, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Mixed Tocopherols, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

Duck (including Ground Duck Bone), Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Ground Lamb Bone, Dried Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Pumpkinseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Apples, Broccoli, Butternut Squash, Salt, Cod Liver Oil, Dried Kelp, Carrots, Spinach, Taurine, Inulin, Blueberries, Parsley, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

She said that Rosemary and Sage were toxic, and that Honey is bad for them. I have a few bags of this left! Is it safe to feed to them?

 

[franksmom]

The main ingredient that is up for debate is the [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Montmorillonite Clay. There have been a few threads on the topic ([/color]http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249405/...iety-instinct-chicken-formula-canned-cat-food) (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/91132/montmorillonite-clay). The veggies and flaxseed also bother some people because cats are obligate carnivores. 

I feed natures variety to both my dog and to my kitten (it only makes up part her diet she also eats wet and steals my other cats dry food). I like it because you can feed it to both dogs and cats and my dog likes it better than the carnivora which I also feed to them. It is also super easy to feeds as it thaws fast and comes in small pucks. I would not feed the rabbit though because it comes from China. If you are in the states there are a lot of good options. Here is a list of the best cat foods and there are a lot of different raw brands mentioned (http://www.naturalcatcareblog.com/2010/12/the-7-best-natural-commercial-cat-foods-so-far/). I am in Canada so there are less options for me ;(

 

[nullentropy]

The main ingredient that is up for debate is the [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Montmorillonite Clay. There have been a few threads on the topic ([/color]http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249405/...iety-instinct-chicken-formula-canned-cat-food) (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/91132/montmorillonite-clay). The veggies and flaxseed also bother some people because cats are obligate carnivores. 

I feed natures variety to both my dog and to my kitten (it only makes up part her diet she also eats wet and steals my other cats dry food). I like it because you can feed it to both dogs and cats and my dog likes it better than the carnivora which I also feed to them. It is also super easy to feeds as it thaws fast and comes in small pucks. I would not feed the rabbit though because it comes from China. If you are in the states there are a lot of good options. Here is a list of the best cat foods and there are a lot of different raw brands mentioned (http://www.naturalcatcareblog.com/2010/12/the-7-best-natural-commercial-cat-foods-so-far/). I am in Canada so there are less options for me ;(

So, Sage/rosemary/clove is not toxic to cats? These guys are kittens, and I do mix it with wet and/or baby food. I don't want anything bad to happen to them.

 

[nullentropy]

Forgot to add, she used this: http://www.ibdkitties.net/Toxicunsafe.html as a source. Don't know anything about it though.

 

[franksmom]

So, Sage/rosemary/clove is not toxic to cats? These guys are kittens, and I do mix it with wet and/or baby food. I don't want anything bad to happen to them.

Sorry yes there is also debate about that. They are not poisonous to cats notice none are the big list of plants cats shouldn't eat (http://www.i-love-cats.com/Health/toxic-plants.htm note rosemary pea is different from rosemary), but they are probably not very digestible for cats as they are obligate carnivores. If your cat is doing well on the natures variety I wouldn't worry too much (but if there is another good food available in your area go ahead and try it if you want there is no harm in trying a few different raw brands to see which one your cat likes). The site your friend sent you is for cats with ibd and you have to be very careful what you give a cat with ibd. The exact quote from the site is: "And just as with food, any rosemary, clove or sage used in naturopathic products can also cause distress", so this does not mean they are toxic just may cause an upset stomach to cats with a sensitive GI tract. 

 

[nullentropy]

One of the reasons I was so drawn to it, was because it's so affordable. I don't make a ton of money, and most of it goes to the cats! I want to give them the best diet I can, and I just can't afford to feed Tiki Cat all the time. I can. however, afford to feed different canned foods mixed with the wet. The Pet Supplies Plus near me has another brand of raw that I can check out. I got the Nature's Variety because it was on sale.

 

[franksmom]

One of the reasons I was so drawn to it, was because it's so affordable. I don't make a ton of money, and most of it goes to the cats! I want to give them the best diet I can, and I just can't afford to feed Tiki Cat all the time. I can. however, afford to feed different canned foods mixed with the wet. The Pet Supplies Plus near me has another brand of raw that I can check out. I got the Nature's Variety because it was on sale.

It isn't a bad food and is actually pretty good. If your kitties do not have any stomach issues with it I would say it is safe to keep in your rotation. I am pretty paranoid about ingredients and I feed it to my pets. 

 

[nullentropy]

They started having a little diarrhea recently, do you think it could be because of this?

 

[franksmom]

They started having a little diarrhea recently, do you think it could be because of this?

If that is the only new thing, it could be. But it could also be something else. You can try giving them a probiotic to see if that helps.

 

[ritz]

I agree with Franksmom:  if your cats don't normally have stomach sensitivity, then I think NV is okay.  Probiotics are also very good. 

RadCat is a very good commercial raw product, a little pricey.

Bravo is okay, though a little high in bone and vegetables.  But frequently has sales.  If you sign up on their web site, sometimes you can get coupons for a couple dollars off or a free trial size.

Frankenprey/whole prey model can be really inexpensive, as long as you chose the cheaper meats like chicken, turkey, pork and beef versus buffalo, veal, rabbit and venison.  (My cat has expensive tastes!)  You DO need to know what you're doing, at least the basics.

 

[justmelilb]

Again I would like to suggest checking out Dr Karen Becker on www.mercola.com search the site I am sure you will find something. She had an article about the best and worst foods for pets.  http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...et-foods-ranked-from-great-to-disastrous.aspx

Well here is one of the articles that may help a little and there are several more about proper diets for our carnivorous babies.

Hope you find some thing that helps.

 

[nullentropy]

As much as I would like to do a whole prey/frankenprey diet, it just isn't feasible for me right now. The NV isn't new, in fact I started feeding it to them as soon as I brought them home. It's probably one of the other foods I had been feeding.

 

[pinkman]

Do you think you can try buying mixed grounds and supplements from say, Hare Today? That way you don't need to worry about herbage or clay. I feed supplemented raw from Hare Today and Frankenprey. 

NV is not bad from what I heard. When I used to feed full-commercial raw I fed Primal, which is in nugget form.

Like others say, try a good human probiotic. 

 

[otto]

I'd be more concerned with the spinach than anything else. Spinach is really not good for cats, it should, at the very least, not be fed every day. Spinach is high in oxalate crystals and iodine. Pet food companies who use it will tell you it is a "good source of nutrients" and is "not harmful to healthy cats". I would not feed a food containing spinach on a daily basis.

 

[franksmom]

I'd be more concerned with the spinach than anything else. Spinach is really not good for cats, it should, at the very least, not be fed every day. Spinach is high in oxalate crystals and iodine. Pet food companies who use it will tell you it is a "good source of nutrients" and is "not harmful to healthy cats". I would not feed a food containing spinach on a daily basis.

Since veggies only make up 5% of the food there is a very small amount of spinach in the food.

 

[otto]

That may be, but it's still spinach, which is not good for cats. Spinach fed every day is risking trouble, in my opinion.

If it's such a tiny amount, why put it in there at all? So the food will show some appropriate percentage in a laboratory test?

 

[franksmom]

That may be, but it's still spinach, which is not good for cats. Spinach fed every day is risking trouble, in my opinion.

If it's such a tiny amount, why put it in there at all? So the food will show some appropriate percentage in a laboratory test?

I do agree that spinach is not ideal, but I have yet to find a perfect cat food. If you feed commercial there will always be something about the food that is debated. I think natures variety is a good option for people who want to feed raw but do not want to make homemade or break the bank. It is also convenient because of how it is packaged and it available a lot of different pet stores. It is by no means the best raw food out there but a lot of pets do well on it and the small amount of spinach in the food is not going to poison the OP's cats who are fed this with a variety of wet foods. 

I feed it to my kitten along with a variety of other foods and as someone who obsessively studies everything that I feed my cats I am very comfortable with it. It is also listed as one of the best foods by the natural cat care blog (http://www.naturalcatcareblog.com/2010/12/the-7-best-natural-commercial-cat-foods-so-far/). It is even listed on ibd kitties as a raw option (http://www.ibdkitties.net/rawproducts.html).

 

[ldg]

I used Nature's Variety frozen raw to transition my cats to raw food. I'm not in love with the 5% "other stuff," but I think feeding NV frozen raw is far superior to any canned or kibble commercial food choices.

The NV does have a slightly high bone content as well. I now feed mostly prey model raw, because several of my cats got constipated on the NV (too much bone will cause constipation. "Too much" is depending on each individual cat. Calcium does need to be balanced with the phosphorus content, but the recommended ratio is rather large: the prey of cats typically has a Calciumhosphorus ratio of 1.1:1. Most commercial foods will have a Ca ratio of 1.3:1 up to 1.5:1, but some people feed at 2:1 !!! ).

So I had to provide some meals of just plain meat to "thin out" the total bone content they were getting. And several of my cats decided they didn't really like eating ground food at that point .

The "better" commercial raw foods are very expensive.

And while I think it's fine to feed NV despite some of it's shortcomings, as with ANY food, I think it's best to provide a rotation of brands. So if you can find or afford Primal or Bravo, or even incorporate a few meals of prey model raw that you balance yourself with a calcium supplement and some organs, or something like just meat and a supplement that makes just meat complete, like TCFeline or Call of the Wild (by Wysong), so much the better. Variety, IMO, is the best way to feed ANY cat. Just like it's the key to our health. :heart2:

 

[ldg]

And as you're using the NV as part of a rotation with other commercial foods, I see no problem using it. Spinach rosemary, sage, whatever - not ideal. But very small amounts. And find a "healthy" food without rosemary in it these days... it's there as a preservative in most. :dk:

 

[nullentropy]

Thank you guys for all your awesome responses. I have been feeding it with canned grain-free foods as well. Today I boiled up some chicken, and I'll be mixing that with the NV along with some canned turkey baby food. Tomorrow I'm going to get some more Tiki Cat and also some Innova Evo wet. I'm going to look at some of the affordable ($1/can) options at the store to see what else I can add to the rotation. The Pet Supplies "Plus" near me has a freezer with different raw foods, and they also have stella & chewies. Is that a good brand? I know I have to add water because it's freeze-dried. I'm new to cats, and want to give these guys the best life.