Is Percy really a Persian?

[percy persian]

Hi! Can anyone confirm what type of cat my 4-month old Percy is?  I got him from a friend.  I met his Mom and Dad. The Mom looks like Garfield, exactly like Garfield but a bit thinner (I guess she does not eat lasagna. and the Dad is like Percy's color.  My friend said they are both Persians.  I just want to confirm because Percy's nose is not pushed up between his eyes and it does not look so flat.

Here are some of Percy's photos: 

20130810_212730 resized.jpg

• percy persian
• Aug 21, 2013

SAM_0006 resized.jpg

• percy persian
• Aug 21, 2013

Percys ID pic.jpg

• percy persian
• Aug 21, 2013

20130806_051027.jpg

• percy persian
• Aug 21, 2013
• 2

 

[StefanZ]

I would sooner compare him to be somewhat look alike a maine coon,  I dont see no persian in him.

Even if I know there are some oldfashioned, not registerd breeders who has persian of the old type, with muzzles not at all so short as the modern type we see on shows.

Of course, mixes arent not uncommon.  And some do mixes with purpose, believing it is the easiest way to get a healthy, sound pet.

Yeah, if someone tried to lead into proof there is quite a lot of maine coon in him, I would perhaps even believe it.

Good luck!

 

[maewkaew]

Percy is gorgeous  but he absolutely doesn't look Persian at all.    I think some people just imagine that all longhair cats are "Persians".    

 But Percy does not look like either  the modern type of Persian with the very flat face,  or the older type that had a short nose and very short muzzle but not totally flat face.  

Persians have a round head , small rounded ears,  short nose,  heavy boning, cobby body ( short body and legs ,  they have a stocky build. . they should not be "fat" but I think this is what you mean. with their cobby body and all the fur they can look kind of chubby. 

   But since his people thought he was a "Persian",  it's unlikely he is any specific breed since surely they would know if his parents were pedigreed cats of some other breed.   And the vast majority of cats are not a breed.  It's not like dogs that usually are a breed or mix of breeds.   With cats most of them have just bred randomly on their own. 

The only thing I can see is,  he does have a rather short face?    I guess it's possible he might be part Persian.  but that's hard to be sure.    

He would be classified as Domestic Longhair  which =  a longhair cat of no particular breed . 

To compare him to other breeds, he actually looks more like a Maine Coon than a Persian,  but he doesn't really look exactly like that either.   I think he is just his own unique self.    

   It sounds like Percy's mom must be a torbie but with a lot of red...    I think garfield is supposed to represent a red tabby in color / pattern.  although he is drawn with black stripes instead of 2 shades of orange.    but there is no way Percy's mom could be a red tabby and have a son that looks like Percy.    Male cats get the gene for whether or not their base color is red or black from their mother.   so his mother would have to have black-based color on her somewhere!   but she could have both red and black ,  since  tortoisesehell cats  ( and torbies) can give either red or "not red" to a kitten.   

 

[percy persian]

Thanks guys! You are right! Percy looks more like a Maine Coon than a Persian. Come to think of it he does not even seem to have any streak of Persian blood! That's odd. Maybe his grandparents came from the Persian family but down the line, the kids met other breeds. Will let my friend know. .... I have a kinda silly question though.  Can he still eat the Royal Canin Persian 32 dry food?  I think though that the difference of that from the Royal Canin Kitten is just the shape of the pellets (and the price!).  But I just want to make sure that there's nothing else there that is not for Percy.   Thanks!!! 

 

[percy persian]

By the way, here is more of him and his Maine Coon look.  

000_8659 cropped.jpg

• percy persian
• Aug 22, 2013

SAM_0073.JPG

• percy persian
• Aug 22, 2013

 

[maewkaew]

Thanks guys! You are right! Percy looks more like a Maine Coon than a Persian. Come to think of it he does not even seem to have any streak of Persian blood! That's odd. Maybe his grandparents came from the Persian family but down the line, the kids met other breeds. Will let my friend know. .... I have a kinda silly question though.  Can he still eat the Royal Canin Persian 32 dry food?  I think though that the difference of that from the Royal Canin Kitten is just the shape of the pellets (and the price!).  But I just want to make sure that there's nothing else there that is not for Percy.   Thanks!!! 

 Percy is SO cute!     I agree,  he may be part Persian a few generations back. but it got mixed with some other ancestors so that the Persian influence is diluted.    In a couple of those photos that show a side view, it does look like he has a shorter face   so that may be where some Persian influence is still showing?     

   Most cats really aren't considered a breed so  we can't really know if he had any Maine Coon ancestry ,    but MCs started as a natural breed ,  cats in a certain area  who just developed a distinctive look via random breeding and adaptation to the environment.     then people started breeding some of those cats.,  developed breed standards etc.    ...   but there were also a lot more cats in other places who turned out similar but aren't really classified as a breed.    

That's not a silly question.

IMO,  most of  the whole concept of Royal Canin's special breed foods  is just niche marketing --   except i see the point that maybe they make shapes easier for flat faced Persian cats to eat.   But it wouldn't mean there's some ingredient that is only for Persian cats.   

Really cats of any breed -- as well as the  cats of no particular breed --   all  are biologically alike in their nutritional needs --  a diet high in animal protein, moderate -high animal fat, very very low carbs ,   little to no ingredients from plants...  and wet,  or at least predominantly wet, since cats developed to get their moisture from their food,  and usually don't have a very strong thirst drive enough to keep well -hydrated unless they are getting it in their food.   There have been studies that found cats on all dry food got only up to half as much water as cats on wet food.  Of course they drank more water but it wasn't enough to make up for the lack of fluid in the food.     and going around somewhat dehydrated could over time lead to urinary and kidney problems.  

There is a vet's site that has a lot of excellent information about cat nutrition  http://www.catinfo.org      

 

[percy persian]

Thank you so much for that info! Percy is now on Royal Canin Instinctive and Persian 32.  And he loves them.  He is eating so much now.  I had to try several brands with him before he finally found what he likes.  He didn't like Iams, Orijens, and Princess.  He even got tired of Whiskas Junior which he used to love so much.  Oh and he loves Cosi, the pet milk.  I am happy that he is eating now because he is underweight for his age.  He weighs only 0.8kg at 3.5 months. Is that so bad? 

 

[maewkaew]

That is only about half the average size for his age,  but he may just be slow growing,  or maybe he is just going to be a rather small cat  but doesn't mean he won't be healthy. 

 But feel his body to see if he feels too thin.   With shorthair cats you can tell a lot just by looking;  with longhairs you have to feel.  Run your hands along his sides with just light pressure with your fingers;  you should be able to feel his ribs but it shouldn't feel like they are sticking out.  It should feel like the knuckles on a hand that is open,  not knuckles on a hand that is in a fist.  

Now feel his abdomen with him standing.   there should be a very thin layer of abdominal fat but not a lot of fat hanging down.   as you move your hands back toward his hips, the belly should be parallel to the floor or rising up a bit,  not sagging down .  some loose skin is normal but it should not be filled with a bunch of fat.  (Not that I think Percy will have signs of being fat!  but I'm just telling you now for future reference when he is older) .

   Feel farther back  --  his hip bones should not be jutting out sharply --  that would mean he is too thin. 

and feel along the topline.  The spine should not be sticking up prominently.   That would mean a lack of back muscle  -- too thin

***    If he is eating well  but is too thin you might get a test for intestinal parasite.   

  If he's just small but not too skinny,  just make sure he has plenty of high-protein, moderate to high fat,  low carb food.   At this age,  he needs to be on kitten food or an " all life stages"  food for both kittens and adult cats.       Both my adults (including altered cats) and kittens get  " all life stages"  food.      

   You might consider increasing the animal protein amount.   Those RC foods really are not as high protein as I would like  and some of the protein is coming from plant sources.       You could feed some snacks of chicken ( but you can only do that up to about 10% of his diet,  or it will start to be unbalanced. ).  or you could try a higher protein food as part of his diet.    For example my kittens eat the Natures Variety Instinct Chicken.  which is 50% protein on a dry matter basis.    ( they also eat wet food.) 

 

Will Percy eat canned food ?    I would try to feed a few meals of wet food a day since it is usually higher in protein that cats do need  and lower in carbs that cats don't need.   Not to mention , it is very good for cats to get moisture in their food.  and especially with male cats ,  feeding them all or mostly wet food  ( especially  wet food that is high protein and very low carb)   can help avoid urinary blockages.    

  If he has never had it before, I would start with just a small amount ( actually that is a good idea with any new food when you're not sure how the cat's digestive system will react.)   In the catinfo.org   main article  Dr. Pierson gives a bunch of tips for getting cats to eat wet food.  http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_

Some of the best foods are  for all life stages,  both cats and kittens.      Merrick's new chicken , turkey or duck pate's  would be good for kittens.  Mine love it.   Wellness Chicken or turkey  is another idea. 

Or there's a canned version of RC Babycat that many kittens find tempting.    and it's higher in protein than the dry Babycat.  

btw here is a chart with nutrient info for many canned foods. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

 

[percy persian]

Great info! It would be a while for me to digest all this rich info you gave. Percy is scheduled for a vet visit today for his anti-rabies shot and deworming session.  He had been eating well in the past few days and I noticed that he is growing quite fast. Well, I notice him to be getting quite belly bulge.  He seems to have a respiratory problem though. In fact, he is almost finishing his Vibravet antibiotic for URI.  He seems to have improved because he is not sneezing anymore and he is more active.  I just noticed though that his breathing is a little too fast.  I counted the rise and fall of his belly when he sleeping.  I counted 52 in 1 minute.  I seems so fast.  And when he purrs, I am not sure if it is mixed with a wheezing sound. I am quite familiar with a wheeze because I come from a family with asthma, even I myself get attacks sometimes. I'll have to clarify this with his doctor. I want to be able to distinguish if it is a healthy purr or an asthmatic purr!

 

[maewkaew]

  Sorry to hear about the respiratory issue.  If that was a resting breath rate,  it's about twice as fast as normal.  

 I hope his vet visit went well.  

 

[percy persian]

I posted this in the Cat Health section of TCS yesterday regarding Percy's vet visit:  

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263811/my-baby-percy-3-months-and-2-weeks-was-diagnosed

"My sweet little boy Percy, was found, through x-ray, to have an enlarged heart. His size is 9.3 when normal is at most 8.1. This is such a devastating news for me. I do not know how to take it as I am not familiar with the prognosis of such a condition. His cardio doctor mentioned though that he does not have a heart murmur, which I would take as a bit of good news.  He also mentioned that the time of our diagnosis is excellent. He is on medication now for two weeks until he would be evaluated again."

Would you have thoughts to share about this? I don't know how to take it and I am extremely worried and scared about this condition.  I try not to worry when we are together since I am sure Percy feels my worry too but I can't help it.  :'(

 

[maewkaew]

 Oh I missed seeing that. That explains the fast breath rate.  I'm really sorry about this diagnosis for your adorable Percy.   

It will be important that you are careful about giving meds as directed  (re the question in the other thread,  I would just ask the vet if it's OK to give with food)  ,  going for follow up visits to evaluate how he is doing,  and attuned to his behavior and demeanor and habits,   so that if he does start having some problem you can catch it and get whatever help he might need.  

This used to be more common several decades ago,  when they started making commercial cat food and did not realize the importance of taurine,  an amino acid that is present in fresh raw meat but is degraded in processing.   Cats can't manufacture it from other sources like dogs or humans.     

There's also a probable genetic cause.  and a possible infectious cause,  that could be related to him having had early exposure to a disease like panleukopenia  (also called feline enteritis  or feline distemper) .

   I don't know what Percy was eating before you got him,  but IF he was not getting a proper diet and was taurine deficient,   then supplementation with taurine now might even allow the heart muscle to recover. 

   Otherwise,   from what I know about dilated cardiomyopathy ,  this will mean Percy's life very probably won't be as long as it otherwise might have.  but  since you caught it early,  and are starting him on meds now,  and sounds like he isn't having cardiac arrhythmia at this time,   he might be able to live for several years  ,  and be able to feel pretty happy and well and loved most of the time.    

So  I would try the taurine ( ask the vet about it)  and try to concentrate on quality of life and take things day by day,  so that even if it turns out he does not have a long life,  he can have a happy one. 

  I know someone with a cat who has had this since she was a kitten.    I think the rest of her litter had died from panleuk so it is possible she might have got it that way.    She's now about 2. 5 or 3 years old and does fairly well.  She is on daily meds and I think once or twice she had to have fluids taken out of her chest.    She actually  has  a heart murmur too,  and did at the time of diagnosis  ( probably around Percy's age or a bit younger)   I don't remember what grade but it was fairly serious.    I think she did improve enough that they went ahead and spayed her when she was a bit over a year old.   they delayed that because of her health.    but it was distressing to her going in heat repeatedly so they ended up deciding to go ahead and do the surgery and she came through it fine.    She is a sweet cat and very much loved especially by my friend's teenage daughter.