Is It Time To Let Them Sort Things Out?

[TnK]

I posted before because I have questions about dealing with new kitten too active for older resident cat. It’s been 7 weeks and after the introduction, they can eat together, stay in the same room, Timmy (TJ) the kitten (male 6 months) sometimes will ignore Cailey (Kly) the resident cat (female 6 years old) when walking by or running pass her. I can distract him with toys if he stalks on her. However, he has started to show the dominant behaviours (pls correct me if I’m wrong) – arch his back to challenge Kly, jump over and nip her neck, chase her, stalk on her when she drinks water and waiting to pounce on her, then he will go drink that bowl of water even I have 3 bowls there. He will also jump onto Kly’s bed (her safe place).

Since he’s getting big with lots of energy, he's as tall as kly now even just 6 months old, it is difficult to lock him in a room so I’ve let him out 24/7. Of course there are peaceful moments when they both sleep but I know there are times TJ will chase Kly and harass her. I’m wondering if this is considered the normal process? Is it okay to let them sort things out to decide the packing order? I found different kinds of advices but not sure if this will make things worse in the long run? If I separate them for longer time and wait until TJ grow older and bigger, he will still do the same dominant behaviours to kly?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[susanm9006]

I think yes, it is time. I don't think his actions are to harass her however. He is just a young kitten trying to engage her in play or at least interaction. If she has claws she will let him know when he has pestered her enough.

 

[TnK]

Thanks for your advice. But the way TJ acts is more like bullying. Forgot to mention, Kly is a timid cat and bush dweller so she will lay on the floor most of the time when she's not sleeping in her bed on a scratching post. This gives TJ more chance to jump on her, bully her when I'm not around to play with him and distract him. I just worry Kly will be too stressed. But some people said just let them be and once they sort out the pack order, things will get better?

 

[Caspers Human]

I’m wondering if this is considered the normal process? Is it okay to let them sort things out to decide the packing order?

I think it is normal.

I don't think humans should intercede in relations between cats unless they actually start hurting each other, especially when there is a younger, smaller cat living with an older one. The old cat outweighs the younger and has more experience. If the young cat is rambunctious or even bullies, the older can can still put down the young cat's advances.

If you keep the cats apart for too long, it gives the young, smaller cat time to grow up and overpower the older cat. He never gets a chance to learn "proper" cat behavior from his elder and will eventually dominate even more than before.

If you let the cats work things out from the start, the older cat has time to "teach" the younger cat how to behave while she still has the ability to put him down if the need arises. The young cat grows up gradually and learns how to behave in the process.

Cats can't talk and they don't have hands like people do. They only have paws and claws.

Therefore, cats MUST growl, hiss, bite and scratch to communicate with other cats.
If you stop them from fighting, they never learn to communicate properly.

Let them fight it out... with limits, of course.
You, as the human get to set those limits. You decide.

You could say, "No biting." Anything up to that point is okay but set the limit at biting.
If they break your rules, you should start by saying, "Play nice!" or "Hey! No bite!" If they obey, it's all good.
If they don't obey, take it up to the next level. For instance, clap your hands, stomp your feet and/or holler, "NO BITE!"
If they STILL don't obey, one of the two cats gets put into the "time out room."

This is exactly the same as you might do when you are teaching three year old kids to behave and "play nice" with each other. You, as the parent, are responsible to teach kids proper behavior. If you don't, the kids will grow up never learning how to behave.

As the "cat mom" you have to do the same thing. Locking one cat away will never teach them how to behave together.

Let them have at it unless they break the "No Bite Rule" or the "Three Strikes Rule."

 

[Animal Freak]

While I do agree that it's best for the cats to work it out themselves, I also think it depends on the cat. The whole idea of letting them handle it if based off of the fact that most cats will defend themselves. However, it's also true that some won't. I've had a lot of issues caused by a lack of confidence. One cat's lack of confidence led to another cat's and it became my job to raise up both of their confidence levels. Not all cats will fight another's advances.

So, when it comes down to it, you know your cats best and only you can make the decision of what to do. Personally, I would keep an eye on them. Watch how they interact before, during, and after these episodes. If Cailey learns to defend herself then that's great, but letting her be harassed to the point that she becomes fearful is not going to help. Instead, she'll become an even bigger target and this can get more difficult than it already is. Cats, just like people, can be hurt mentally, not just physically.

 

[TnK]

The old cat outweighs the younger and has more experience. If the young cat is rambunctious or even bullies, the older can can still put down the young cat's advances.

Although TJ is just 6 months old, he has long legs and big paws. He is quite big now. Although kly is 6 years older and heavier, but she's timid and usually will run away, i haven't seen her put down TJ also because he's very energetic. Actually TJ can put her down when pouncing on her. All she can do is hissing, growling and swiping. That's why I struggle what is best for kly because I care about her so much.

 

[TnK]

Watch how they interact before, during, and after these episodes. If Cailey learns to defend herself then that's great, but letting her be harassed to the point that she becomes fearful is not going to help.

kly did fight back occasionally but walk or run away most of the time. I have tried helping kly to build up her confidrnce by using treats to lead her jumping up and staying on a cat tree or higher place. But I cannot make sure it's safe for her because TJ can also jump up there anytime. She usually just stay awhile.

When it is too much for kly, she will jump up to the top of my closet but TJ can jump up there too.

TJ may not harasss her all the time, when he has something to play with or look outside the window.....but he started to wait outside or even follow her when she goes to eat, drink water or going to the litter box. Then kly will leave. That's why I think it's dominant behaviour. I feel bad and find it difficult to help kly because it seems not possible to separate them while I'm out working....also he may be more crazy and aggressive after I let him out.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, it's good that she's fought back even if it doesn't happen often. At least she's willing to. I honestly don't have enough experience to help with his following her around or deciding if it's dominant behavior. I have more experience with the timid behavior and lack of confidence. If Cailey starts acting nervous or fearful around him then you'll want to step in, but if they can be around each other calmly then they can probably sort things out themselves. Just watch interactions between these episodes to make sure she isn't becoming fearful. Or if it gets to be too much where he won't leave her alone and she clearly wants to get away, then interfering might be necessary.

 

[TnK]

Well, it's good that she's fought back even if it doesn't happen often. At least she's willing to. I honestly don't have enough experience to help with his following her around or deciding if it's dominant behavior. I have more experience with the timid behavior and lack of confidence. If Cailey starts acting nervous or fearful around him then you'll want to step in, but if they can be around each other calmly then they can probably sort things out themselves. Just watch interactions between these episodes to make sure she isn't becoming fearful. Or if it gets to be too much where he won't leave her alone and she clearly wants to get away, then interfering might be necessary.

Thanks and this advice is helpful. I'm not quite sure if Cailey is fearful although they can be around each other calmly sometimes (mainly when TJ is calm). She does look nervous because of TJ's movement and roughness. I notice that she will walk away if he walks near her.

How do I step in? Should I separate them? Does time out work? If I'm home, I spend lots of time with them but hard to watch them the whole time. I had to close my bedroom door this past few nights to separate them so me and kly can get some sleep.

Thanks in advance for any advises.

 

[Animal Freak]

I understand how difficult it is to watch them constantly, trust me. It seems like it's always when your back is turned that they cause issues.

If you do manage to see him about to pounce, chase, or whatever else it may be, then you can try calling his name or telling him no. You don't have to yell, but be firm. If that doesn't work try distracting him with a toy. If you don't see the signs, but see him harassing her you can try the same thing. Start off telling him no and pull him away from her. Give him a toy to play with. If he keeps going back to her then locking him up for just a few minutes (maybe ten) might work.

 

[Elfilou]

I think it's sweet and very responsible of you to keep an eye on them during this process and that you're aware that sometimes a timid cat can end up being bullied by a boisterous one. You won't really know though, until he is an adult himself, what his real personality will be like. He's a kitten now, and after this comes a "teenager" phase...

What I would do, personally, is shift your focus to the female and work on adding to her confidence. If she really is a "bush dweller" (my female 100% is too), make sure there are tunnels around for her to escape through (you can find plastic ones really cheap in most petstores), make hidey holes in closets and bookcases - maybe some of those DYI hammocks under dining chairs. Those are the "this is where I feel confident" spots for brush dwellers, after all! And of course, her own daily 10 minute play session with him locked out of the room. 10 minutes just for her, to hunt, catch, kill and eat. I think play is key to having a confident cat, that won't let themselves be bullied

I hope they can become great friends though. They already sound very sweet, sleeping together and all.

 

[TnK]

I think it's sweet and very responsible of you to keep an eye on them during this process and that you're aware that sometimes a timid cat can end up being bullied by a boisterous one. You won't really know though, until he is an adult himself, what his real personality will be like. He's a kitten now, and after this comes a "teenager" phase...

What I would do, personally, is shift your focus to the female and work on adding to her confidence. If she really is a "bush dweller" (my female 100% is too), make sure there are tunnels around for her to escape through (you can find plastic ones really cheap in most petstores), make hidey holes in closets and bookcases - maybe some of those DYI hammocks under dining chairs. Those are the "this is where I feel confident" spots for brush dwellers, after all! And of course, her own daily 10 minute play session with him locked out of the room. 10 minutes just for her, to hunt, catch, kill and eat. I think play is key to having a confident cat, that won't let themselves be bullied

I hope they can become great friends though. They already sound very sweet, sleeping together and all.

Sorry for misleading you, they actually don't sleep together because TJ is too active and Kly is very sensitive. However, there were a few times when I give them treats together, and when TJ was to desperate to eat it from my fingers, Kly can sniff his head and lick him a bit. I'm sure if TJ is not that crazy they can be friends but I can't see it happening in the near future.

As for hiding places and escaping routes, I have 3 tunnels, Kly used to hide in there when her brother (who passed away in May due to cancer relapsed) chased her. But now TJ will go in the tunnel too so it's even worse when kly hide inside. TJ also likes to hide and sleep in my closet or under my sister's bed. That's why I find it very difficult to help her.

As for play sessions with Kly, she doesn't play much but I used to play with her a bit before going to bed. However, the routine got interrupted after adding TJ. I found that she plays less and sometime can't relax if I close the door to play with her. She liked to run through the tunnel and catch something but now I hesitate to let her play with the tunnel because she may be confused the tunnel is something good? If she sits on one side of the tunnel and when TJ is on the other side, she becomes a bigger target for TJ to run to her through the tunnel.

Would it help Kly if I continue to separate them by closing my bedroom during bed time and stay with Kly?

 

[TnK]

I understand how difficult it is to watch them constantly, trust me. It seems like it's always when your back is turned that they cause issues.

If you do manage to see him about to pounce, chase, or whatever else it may be, then you can try calling his name or telling him no. You don't have to yell, but be firm. If that doesn't work try distracting him with a toy. If you don't see the signs, but see him harassing her you can try the same thing. Start off telling him no and pull him away from her. Give him a toy to play with. If he keeps going back to her then locking him up for just a few minutes (maybe ten) might work.

This is very helpful because I wasn't sure if I should treat those behaviors as normal process and just let TJ to do it. But I have tried knocking on something or scratching something to make some sounds to distract him, it seems working sometimes so I will continue to use these methods. I'll will put him in bathroom and time out for a few minutes.

 

[Animal Freak]

Well, I haven't gone through the introduction process many times myself, but I have kept up with a lot of the threads on here and have dealt with cat attacks and loss of confidence. If they could get through this on their own, that would be terrific, but sometimes it's just not happening. I've seen what not interfering can do and it's not fun so keeping what confidence Cailey has and maybe even building some up is the best thing to do.

It would be greatly beneficial if you could get Cailey playing again. It can take time and some money to find what she likes, but I do believe this had been an important part in getting my own cats to get along. Eventually, it can be used to bring them together and be a positive experience.

 

[Elfilou]

As for play sessions with Kly, she doesn't play much but I used to play with her a bit before going to bed. However, the routine got interrupted after adding TJ. I found that she plays less and sometime can't relax if I close the door to play with her. She liked to run through the tunnel and catch something but now I hesitate to let her play with the tunnel because she may be confused the tunnel is something good? If she sits on one side of the tunnel and when TJ is on the other side, she becomes a bigger target for TJ to run to her through the tunnel.

As far as I know it isn't strange for cats to stop being playful if they get "out of the groove". It's like with humans, if you never go to the gym it's not appealing to ever go back. But if you go every day it becomes a stress reliever, your body craves it etc. The difference with gym vs. hunting though, is that cats also mentally really crave hunting. To give them that satisfaction of catching prey before a meal you are really giving them a mental therapy session, as well as physical.

Please don't give up on playing with her! Soo many behavioral problems people are expierencing can be solved by simply playing with their cats on a daily basis. It might take a couple days or a week for her to really get back into it, but every cat wants to fill that urge to hunt! (well unless they're elderly) I really recommend just doing it 10 minutes before the last meal of the day.

Would it help Kly if I continue to separate them by closing my bedroom during bed time and stay with Kly?

I don't see how. If it gives you peace of mind at first, then yes. But I would at least separate them during play time leading up to mealtime. Cats hunt alone so some cats really just stay in the background, watching the other cat hunt, and not getting the satisfaction of actually catching the prey.

For brush dwellers small ground prey is most appealing. I attached a small mouse toy to what was initially a feather toy, and that's Elfie's favourite right now. Cats get bored with the same toys every day though so you have to rotate them. I would get a fishing rod with a removable toy so you can switch it up. The one I got is called Flying Frenzy. I have several of their toys that you can switch on the rod, but you can also DYI attach anything to it. Best cat toy I got so far, hands down. Very customizable.

Anyway I kinda went into detail about play there sorry! But I do think it's essential for cat confidence, and many other behavior problems. Cats are predators after all!

 

[TnK]

Personally, I would keep an eye on them

I can stop him when I'm around. But he will still harass or bully her when I'm not at home or around to be the referee. If TJ wants to be the no.1, separate them when I'm away and then act as the referee when I'm around may not help them to decide the packing order? Kly will rely on me to protect her?

Does that mean i should not or it's not time yet to let TJ out 24/7? But he will be locked up for long hours when I'm not home even though I have bought electronic toys for him because those toys can't occupy him and drain his energy.

Last night, I had a good play session with Cailey one on one. But is it considered ok if letting them to sort out the packing order (TJ bully Kly since he's the dominant one) while I help Kly to build up her confidence? My understanding is that no matter how long I separate them, how much confidence Kly has, when TJ is the dominant one, he just need to keep doing the dominant behaviours?

 

[Animal Freak]

You might be able to work through this without separating them, but I would say it would be best if you kept them apart while you're gone. He'll be perfectly fine on his own. Cats typically sleep most of the day anyway. The only entertainment he probably has when you're gone is bothering Cailey which is most definitely not going to help her. He needs to know he's not getting away with this whether you're there or not.

And there's a difference between dominance and harassment. Once figured out, dominance is a rather subtle thing. Cailey is an easy target because of her timid nature. While it's true she shouldn't be reliant on you for protection, it's also true that continuously being harassed is only going to make her more timid and an even easier target rather than teaching her to protect herself. The more confidence Cailey has, the less she'll be pushed around. Cats are sensitive to emotions. He'll know when she's feeling confident and that'll make her less of a target. So no, confidence is definitely not meaningless and sometimes confidences relies on time away from the threat.

 

[TnK]

Please don't give up on playing with her! Soo many behavioral problems people are expierencing can be solved by simply playing with their cats on a daily basis. It might take a couple days or a week for her to really get back into it, but every cat wants to fill that urge to hunt! (well unless they're elderly) I really recommend just doing it 10 minutes before the last meal of the day.

Thanks for the advise. I had a quality play session with her last night because I know she likes one of my bedding sheet then I lay it down on the floor and use a string with a paper ball that she likes and let her play hide and catch. I haven't seen her run like that for long time. I'll continue and see how it goes.

 

[TnK]

it would be best if you kept them apart while you're gone.

This part is a bit challenging because they both like to stay in my bedroom most of the time even though I live in a house. They don't go downstairs very often on their own maybe they feel safe staying upstairs. I found that Cailey seems anxious when I lock her in my bedroom because she will hide and sleep at the top of my closet where she won't usually go. But if I don't separate them, I'll worry about Cailey so much.

Although I understand and somewhat agreed when people saying about letting them to sort out the packing order, but it's hard for me and I feel sorry to see Cailey being harassed by TJ. Hope I can help Cailey to build up her confidence and things will get better soon

 

[Animal Freak]

It can be difficult, yes, especially if both cats claim the same room/spot as their safe place. However, Cailey is the bigger concern here and we want her to feel safe. If you have an extra room, filling it with things that smell like TJ can help encourage him to choose that room as his safe place. It's not necessary, but it could help.

I also agree that, when possible, it's best to let the cats sort things out. However, there are times that just cannot happen because it only works with two confident cats that will defend themselves without getting out of control. A timid cat doesn't often "sort things out." Instead, they become more timid. If she gains confidence then maybe she can handle the kitten on her own.