Is It Possible For A Cat To Become Un-potty Trainable?

[sunny578]

Hello!

I was just looking at the Litter Box Placement article, and it said that if a cat is exposed to a loud noise while using the litter box, that's enough to scare her away from the box for good. Is that true? Is it possible for a healthy cat to stop using the box out of fear and then never use it again?

I've been struggling with my cat and her urinating outside the box for a year now, and I guess want to make sure there's still hope. Litter box, pee pad, outside--I'm flexible! At this point, I'd even take the floor! Anything other than the couch or the bed.

Thanks for listening.

 

[moorspede]

Not necessarily, you would just need to change the litter, the box itself to something unrecognisable from the first one eg, bigger, bigger sides, a slightly different shape and place it in a new location. You could probably even very gradually inch it back once the cat has been using it for awhile.

Can you give us more information about your cat? 12 months is a long time for a cat to be avoiding it's litter box.

Is it an older cat?

Is it peeing or spraying. Peeing is making a puddle, spraying is verticle up walls etc.

Is it fixed?

Have you taken it to the vet to make sure it doesn't have a medical problem?

Have you cleaned the places it pees thoroughly with an enzymatic cleaner? Cleaning with your usual cleaners will not help and could make the problem worse. Cats will return to places that smell of pee.

 

[sunny578]

Thanks so much for your response.

Tiny is a 9 year old spayed female who is super healthy and kitten-like. She was one of four day-old abandoned kittens that I fostered and bottle fed, and she has never had a typical relationship with the litter box. She has never covered her business, scratched, sniffed. Always just in and out.

She stopped using the box for #2 five years ago when I switched her along with my older now deceased cat to raw food. She loved the raw food but it made her constipated at first, and even after she got over her bout of uncomfortable constipation/hard stools, she never went back to the box for #2.

Over the years she has stopped using the litter box for urine for weeks due to life changes (new puppy, move, new furniture) but I've always been able to get her to come back to it. She doesn't like litter; instead she has always used an empty box or a box filled with dirt from the backyard.

This time around, she hasn't come back to it really at all. I tried buying new litter boxes, and a variety of litter including cat attract. I got more litter boxes and larger litter boxes and moved them to new places. No luck. I set up pee pads under one of the beds, and she uses those maybe 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time it happens on the bed, or in the middle of the house on the floor, or on the couch, or on me.

A year ago my 18 year old cat died a month before my husband and I left for a four week vacation. One of the pet sitters that we had was new to our pet family, and brought over an unfamiliar dog. After that point, Tiny ran away to our neighbors shed. She kept running away for months after we got home. The running away has stopped fortunately--in fact, she seems hesitant to go outside, although once and a while she will go outside to go to the bathroom.

Tiny wasn't particularly bonded to my older cat, but my older cat was much less anxious than Tiny, and probably provided her with some sense of cat community in my house. We have two dogs who Tiny has lived with for 4 years and who are surprisingly respectful of Tiny, although I'm sure it's stressful for her when one of them barks at the mailman etc.

I would say it isn't spraying, although sometimes it does seem like Tiny is urinating to claim a spot (ie after a dog sits on the rug in the bathroom she might urinate a little bit on it.)

We clean with the enzyme cleaners, although they don't really get the smell out so I often clean with regular cleaner afterwards.

I would never send Tiny away. It's been a more pressing issue though now that we're expecting a baby and it's becoming harder and harder for me to clean up after her with my big belly and lack of energy. It would be so great if we could solve this issue before the baby is here.

I've thought about getting one of those patches of grass/grass like material that people buy for their dogs to use on their balconies.

We've got lots of pheromone dispensers around the house, but I just brought some spray pheromones to spray directly on the furniture/my clothes to see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for listening.

 

[moorspede]

It seems to be quite a common problem with cat parents who have indoor/ outdoor cats. Your cat has double the difficulty because she was a bottle fed kitten who didn't have a mother to teach her things and because she is not a kitten, the older cats get the less they tend to like change.

You've obviously researched and tried the things that forum members usually advise. I may test your patience but please bear with me.

You have tried big litter trays, have you tried a box one and a half the size of Tiny's body size? People suggest that if there is not one available in that size then you get a plastic tub and cut a hole in the side (up the top) to allow her to comfortably get in.

I know you say you've tried all sorts of litter and that she doesn't like it. Have you tried a little bit of sand like litter (or even wood bark or walnut shell pellets) and added soil over the top? The idea being that you gradually bring her around to litter only but don't worry about doing this until she has been going to the toilet in the litter box for awhile.

Place the box in the bathroom, laundry or similar quiet place (but not out of the way). I know you've said you've done this. It needs to be cleaned as often as possible, if you feel you need to wash the trays use warm water and a dilute solution of vinegar over something with harsh smelling chemicals.

You mentioned that the enzymatic cleaner didn't thoroughly clean the spots, be aware that anything with ammonia will smell like cat pee to Tiny's nose and she will return to it.

Once you have the tray ready, place her front paws in the litter but don't force things if she jumps away from it.

Give Tiny a reward and make a big fuss over her when she uses the box.

If you see that she is about to go near the box, gently place her in it. If she is too far away, place the poo in the box and let her see it. If your cat peed on a piece of paper, for example, cut out the piece and place it in the box. I know this sounds difficult.

If Tiny is going in a particular spot move the litter box there.

You could try retraining her. It would involve placing her in the bathroom or another small area with the litter tray, bowls and bedding, toys etc and feed her. You would allow her out once she's been to the toilet (hopefully in the litter box). Once she's gone (and you've rewarded her) you could let her out to exercise. Then you'd put her back. You will need to continue to do this for at least 10 days to allow her to develop a habit. You would have to be very vigilant, if she goes to the toilet outside her room your work will be ruined.

 

[sunny578]

This is so helpful, thank you! We have a very long box that I made into a litter box (like an under the bed type storage tupperware,) but your idea about cutting a hole in a box is great!! I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but now I'm thinking that a large tupperware storage container with one of the sides almost completely cut off might be perfect! She has always hated hopping in and out of the box even though she has zero mobility issues. I wonder if having one of the sides super low would make her feel less trapped in there. Thank you for that idea!

Also the sand idea is great too! When I got her all the new litter, she did scratch around in it a couple of times, so that instinct must still be there! I couldn't find any super fine litter at the store today, but I will try a different one tomorrow. If I can't find anything, I think I'm just going to buy some reptile sand. I wonder if that softer bedding they sell for rodents might be attractive to her too. At this point, I don't care if I'm spending $$ on disposable litter. Anything to get her back in the box! She was going in a box filled with dirt before, but has showed zero interest in that for the last year. I got some of that cat attract herb stuff, so I can sprinkle that in whatever I find.

Going to the bathroom has always been a stressful experience for her. Even when she goes outside, she squats, goes, and then runs away from it. I think this might be why she doesn't love the whole box concept. She has actually tipped the box from trying to run out of it too quickly. That's why I thought pee pads would be a great solution, but I think maybe that backfired because it taught her to associate urinating with fabric.

We'll be moving in a couple of months, so if all else fails, I will try the more severe retraining then. Thankfully we have that opportunity coming up, because it seems like restricting her to one room would stress her out way too much in our current (tiny) house.

I've tried positive reenforcement in the past, but I think my methods are catered more towards dogs and perhaps too loud and lively for her. Maybe she will do better with a more calm and quiet reward. As great as the dogs are with her, our house does tend to the more loud/chaotic side. Hopefully a bigger house will help give her some more peace and quiet.

I'm worried now that her littermates might be having similar problems, wherever they are. I hope not! They were such a cool group of kittens, and I know not many people would be equipped to deal with this problem.

Thank you again for your response! It's been so hard to find someone to talk to about this, and I've just been at a loss with solutions. It seems like a more advanced behavioral issue, and I so appreciate your creative suggestions!

 

[di and bob]

I would guess the loud, disruptive noises in your household have 'trained' her to be leery of being so vulnerable in the litterbox. I think she feels too exposed, if you could find a nice quiet spot for her box that may help. A bigger, more spread out place might help her to calm down, though I would keep her confined to a quiet, small room in the beginning at a new house, until she gets more comfortable. You might try the 'calming' treats they have on Amazon to help her, give her just a small amount to see if they help. I have found that buying some clear plastic carpet protector runner and placing it 'nub' side up where she goes on your couch or bed will keep her from going there, the nubs hurt their feet. It is easily removed when you want it gone and trains them not to go there. Walmart has Nature's Miracle now, I have found it to be a very good cleaner and odor remover, I had to change many times to find a good one, some just don't work well. You have been an angel to put up with this for so long, I'll pray for everything to straighten up, good luck!